Scammell S26 Gallery

[paulob1]

but with only 350 bhp dont you think she will be a tad underpowered...would love that truck...

[antarmike]

but with only 350 bhp dont you think she will be a tad underpowered...would love that truck...

 

Antar only had 300 BHP for 140 GTW, 350 BHP seems like more than enough...

[antar]

New toy arrived today. The S26 and the Champ are mine. All purchased from DC a couple of weeks ago.

[Markheliops]

Thanks for the engine details Mike i will update the photo details, this is one of the trials civvy bumpered tractors you mentioned

 

Does anyone know what trailer this is?

 

I am looking for a trailer to put on the back of a Scammell S26 I have just purchased to carry my Chieftain ARRV.

 

I thought 3 axle trailers would not be an option with axle load weights, etc or is this another example of the Army not having to meet C&U regs?

 

Markheliops

[radiomike7]

Does anyone know what trailer this is?

 

I am looking for a trailer to put on the back of a Scammell S26 I have just purchased to carry my Chieftain ARRV.

 

I thought 3 axle trailers would not be an option with axle load weights, etc or is this another example of the Army not having to meet C&U regs?

 

Markheliops

 

Mark, this is not going to be easy, in Antar/Commander days the army could do more or less what they liked, for instance the rear axle loading on the trailers was IRO 30 tons per line, far higher than the current max of 16 tons for the likes of you and I under STGO 3.

As I see it, the ARRV weighs 55 tons, the S26 9 tons and a suitable trailer circa 20 tons which takes you above the limit of STGO2 (80 tons with 12.5tons per axle) and into STGO3 (150 tons with 16 tons per axle). You didn't say which S26 you have but if it is one of the RAF radar types the rear axles are rated at 12 tons each but the springs are only 9.1 tons each. You could use the springs and wheels/tyres from an RAF re-fueler to get the full 12 ton rating but you would need to get the vehicle recertified. With a 4 axle trailer and under STGO 2 you could then theoretically run at 80 tons, (4x12.5+2x12+6) but this would leave no margin for loading error.

STGO3 is probably the way to go, a four axle trailer with 16 ton axles could take a greater weight and the S26 would not need uprating. Incidentally the plate on the RAF versions gives a 65 ton max train weight but the civilian versions were 100 tons with the same specification, I have the spec sheets in front of me.

You need to do your sums, decide how often you may want to move it and balance the cost of owning/running/storing an expensive bit of kit against hiring a contractor to move it for you, RFL alone is £2585 pa if used commercially, not sure if you could tax it as a private heavy goods.

Edited March 13, 2013 by radiomike7

[Markheliops]

Hi Radiomike.

 

Many thanks for the info:

 

I don't pretend to understand all the regulations concerning special loads etc so your advice is very welcome.

 

I know it may be a bit tricky with weights etc but I am looking for a suitable trailer to overcome the issues.

 

The only thing I think you may be mistaken on is I intend to tax the vehicle as Private HGV at £220 per year as I will only be moving my own tank. As I understand, the road fund tax disc for special types is as you suggested ridiculously expensive but it will not apply to my vehicle as stated above.

#

I stand to be corrected of course.

 

Is there any reason why I can not use a draw bar trailer as I have found a 40 wheel, 80 ton trailer. 3 axles at the rear and 2 at the front?

 

Again the regulations may prevent me from using this but the trailer is designed for tank transporting and this would stop any issues with being over weight, etc?

 

Markheliops

[cosrec]

Hi Radiomike.

 

Many thanks for the info:

 

I don't pretend to understand all the regulations concerning special loads etc so your advice is very welcome.

 

I know it may be a bit tricky with weights etc but I am looking for a suitable trailer to overcome the issues.

 

The only thing I think you may be mistaken on is I intend to tax the vehicle as Private HGV at £220 per year as I will only be moving my own tank. As I understand, the road fund tax disc for special types is as you suggested ridiculously expensive but it will not apply to my vehicle as stated above.

#

I stand to be corrected of course.

 

Is there any reason why I can not use a draw bar trailer as I have found a 40 wheel, 80 ton trailer. 3 axles at the rear and 2 at the front?

 

Again the regulations may prevent me from using this but the trailer is designed for tank transporting and this would stop any issues with being over weight, etc?

 

Markheliops

 

 

Now i might be completely wrong here but but do you think plant hire companies would be going to the expence of STGO vehicles and all it entails after all they are only moving their own crawler cranes D8s etc around or have you a loop hole that could save them a load of money. If it were that simple i think some of the cute one man operators that run big equpment would have twigged and taxed their vehicles Private HGV by now. I know of a one man operation who runs a sismic testing machine who pays £40000 to get his 44 ton machine moved each year common sense tells me he would found a get out of jail free card by now

Edited March 15, 2013 by cosrec

[Edd]

I think that private HGV is only applicable if you are not running hire and reward or as part of a business. Running an HGV as part of a business even if only to move your own kit I think entails having an O licence. If that's right then as Mark would not be running as a business the private HGV could apply.

 

Ed

[Markheliops]

I think you are right on this Ed.

 

My understanding of being able to tax as private HGV is that the goods I move (ie tank) are my own property and I am not doing it for hire and reward (ie I am not making any money out of it and not running a business).

 

Plant hire companies, etc would not be able to tax private HGV as they are running a business.

 

Markheliops

[N.O.S.]

Yes Mark, you should certainly be ok on that front. My understanding is just as Edd laid out.

 

Just be aware there could be issues with moving other peoples' vehicles, even as a cost free favour. Might pay to get a good understanding of the private HGV conditions - good luck with that!!

[Markheliops]

New baby in it's holding area for a while until I can get it registered and uprated.

 

 

 

I have also managed to acquire a 4 axle, extendible 80 ton trailer.

 

It needs some work but my budget wouldn't stretch any further.

 

Pictures when it is delivered next week.

 

Now for the headache that is trying to get it registered (STGO) and uplated.

 

Markheliops

[AndyFowler]

Very nice Mark , but you knew I'd say that !

[Boggy]

No1 Air Control Centre (RAF) These were used to tow the type 91/92 RADAR I believe. However I think this one may have been in a batch of 7 delivered to RAF Boulmer in 1985 I think. I was working in MTMS as the Lecky at the time. They were 'big' pin fifth wheel coupling at the time, later converted to ballast type iirc. Mark

[antar]

Mark, this is not going to be easy, in Antar/Commander days the army could do more or less what they liked, for instance the rear axle loading on the trailers was IRO 30 tons per line, far higher than the current max of 16 tons for the likes of you and I under STGO 3.

As I see it, the ARRV weighs 55 tons, the S26 9 tons and a suitable trailer circa 20 tons which takes you above the limit of STGO2 (80 tons with 12.5tons per axle) and into STGO3 (150 tons with 16 tons per axle). You didn't say which S26 you have but if it is one of the RAF radar types the rear axles are rated at 12 tons each but the springs are only 9.1 tons each. You could use the springs and wheels/tyres from an RAF re-fueler to get the full 12 ton rating but you would need to get the vehicle recertified. With a 4 axle trailer and under STGO 2 you could then theoretically run at 80 tons, (4x12.5+2x12+6) but this would leave no margin for loading error.

STGO3 is probably the way to go, a four axle trailer with 16 ton axles could take a greater weight and the S26 would not need uprating. Incidentally the plate on the RAF versions gives a 65 ton max train weight but the civilian versions were 100 tons with the same specification, I have the spec sheets in front of me.

You need to do your sums, decide how often you may want to move it and balance the cost of owning/running/storing an expensive bit of kit against hiring a contractor to move it for you, RFL alone is £2585 pa if used commercially, not sure if you could tax it as a private heavy goods.

 

Mike, I am interested in your comment about the springs only being rated to 9.1 tons each, I too am currently preparing an ex-RAF S26 for very similar purposes to Mark (moving things wide and heavy which belong to me). I never really considered the springs as they "looked" as substantial as those on my 35T RE Crusader. Any chance you can post copies of the spec sheets ? I also felt that the original 10.00 x 20 tyres were a bit underated so have now fitted 12.00 x 20 all round. The truck did actually come with 12.00 x 20 on the front but I think these may have been a civilian mod as unlike Mark's recent purchase mine has already been used on the show circuit. Upgrading to 12.00s on the rear also gives an upgrade of 10% to road speed in each gear. I also intend using a 4 axle trailer my American M747.

John.

[Markheliops]

Ditto John.

 

Any help in this would be greatly appreciated as I want to up-plate the S26 and will need to have the civi spec sheet to hand if I am going to have any joy.

 

I am hoping it is a mere paperwork exercise that can be done when I have the S26 MOT'd but as I am a virgin at all this I really am fumbling in the dark.

 

Markheliops

[antar]

Does anyone know what trailer this is?

 

I am looking for a trailer to put on the back of a Scammell S26 I have just purchased to carry my Chieftain ARRV.

 

I thought 3 axle trailers would not be an option with axle load weights, etc or is this another example of the Army not having to meet C&U regs?

 

Markheliops

 

Just to answer the question it is an AMX13 trailer ex-French Army, why it was ever on a 3.5" pin I'll never know !

[protruck]

Hi John.

 

If you have the VIN plate in the cab i can send you the scammell/Leyland E.E.C VIN chart so that you can check the weight of your 6x4 unit. If there is no plate the chassis number is ok.

 

Clive.

[Markheliops]

Hi John.

 

If you have the VIN plate in the cab i can send you the scammell/Leyland E.E.C VIN chart so that you can check the weight of your 6x4 unit. If there is no plate the chassis number is ok.

 

Clive.

 

Hi Clive.

 

That will be useful to me too. My VIN plate is shown below:

 

 

Does anyone know if up-plating the S26 is a paperwork exercise or something more substantial?

 

I want to up-plate to 85 tonnes minimum.

 

Many thanks

 

Markheliops

[protruck]

Hi Mark.

 

Send me your home email in a PM, and i will send it across.

 

Clive

[Markheliops]

PM sent Clive.

 

Thank you.

[radiomike7]

Mike, I am interested in your comment about the springs only being rated to 9.1 tons each, I too am currently preparing an ex-RAF S26 for very similar purposes to Mark (moving things wide and heavy which belong to me). I never really considered the springs as they "looked" as substantial as those on my 35T RE Crusader. Any chance you can post copies of the spec sheets ? I also felt that the original 10.00 x 20 tyres were a bit underated so have now fitted 12.00 x 20 all round. The truck did actually come with 12.00 x 20 on the front but I think these may have been a civilian mod as unlike Mark's recent purchase mine has already been used on the show circuit. Upgrading to 12.00s on the rear also gives an upgrade of 10% to road speed in each gear. I also intend using a 4 axle trailer my American M747.

John.

 

Hi John, the data sheet shows 9147kg as each rear spring capacity with the SOMA axles rated at 12000kg each. As I wrote previously the RAF tankers had a heavy duty 24 ton version of the rear bogie with a couple of extra leaves in the springs, stronger rectangular radius arms in place of the tubular ones with a different X member and axle brackets, 12R22.5 tyres and 4.79:1 diffs in place of 6.39:1. The trunnions looked to be the same with longer U bolts and I speak from personal experience as I stripped one down here that I bought from DC a couple of years ago to liberate the high speed diffs which now reside in Mike Lawrence's Wynns lookalike S26.

Looking at the Crusader specs the rear bogie has a design capacity of 23780kg with a rating of 13690kg (11.7ton) which is clearly incorrect or a typo on the 09/1975 sheet for the F4 112 156HD model.

Out of interest which wheels did you use for the 12.00x20s, I seem to remember there was already a wheel spacer to increase the track for tyre/spring clearance?

[antar]

Hi John, the data sheet shows 9147kg as each rear spring capacity with the SOMA axles rated at 12000kg each. As I wrote previously the RAF tankers had a heavy duty 24 ton version of the rear bogie with a couple of extra leaves in the springs, stronger rectangular radius arms in place of the tubular ones with a different X member and axle brackets, 12R22.5 tyres and 4.79:1 diffs in place of 6.39:1. The trunnions looked to be the same with longer U bolts and I speak from personal experience as I stripped one down here that I bought from DC a couple of years ago to liberate the high speed diffs which now reside in Mike Lawrence's Wynns lookalike S26.

Looking at the Crusader specs the rear bogie has a design capacity of 23780kg with a rating of 13690kg (11.7ton) which is clearly incorrect or a typo on the 09/1975 sheet for the F4 112 156HD model.

Out of interest which wheels did you use for the 12.00x20s, I seem to remember there was already a wheel spacer to increase the track for tyre/spring clearance?

 

Mike thanks fo the info, I have had to be selective with the wheels using only 7.50 rims for the inners as the 8.00's are too close to the springs. There is something which looks like a spacer on each hub but I think it is actually part of the brake drum, but I am going to have a better look on monday. The SOMA axles are spiggot mount for the wheels, getting the originals off was quite difficult due to rust between the rim and the hub spiggot.

 

Do the high speed diffs from the tankers actually fit into the SOMA axles ? When I first read your post on the subject I assumed that you had fitted the whole bogie assembly not just the diffs.

 

I am currently fitting a 16 ton/metre crane directly behind the cab.

[antar]

Hi John.

 

If you have the VIN plate in the cab i can send you the scammell/Leyland E.E.C VIN chart so that you can check the weight of your 6x4 unit. If there is no plate the chassis number is ok.

 

Clive.

 

The vin on the log book reads SBSM6A37RSLF76698 which is a bit strange as Mark's vin is RSAF ? will check my registration document against the vin plate on Monday to confirm.

[protruck]

The vin on the log book reads SBSM6A37RSLF76698 which is a bit strange as Mark's vin is RSAF ? will check my registration document against the vin plate on Monday to confirm.

 

 

Hi John.

 

The difference in the VIN numbers between your's and Mark's is A = January & L = December Month of Build.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Clive

[radiomike7]

Mike thanks fo the info, I have had to be selective with the wheels using only 7.50 rims for the inners as the 8.00's are too close to the springs. There is something which looks like a spacer on each hub but I think it is actually part of the brake drum, but I am going to have a better look on monday. The SOMA axles are spiggot mount for the wheels, getting the originals off was quite difficult due to rust between the rim and the hub spiggot.

 

Do the high speed diffs from the tankers actually fit into the SOMA axles ? When I first read your post on the subject I assumed that you had fitted the whole bogie assembly not just the diffs.

 

I am currently fitting a 16 ton/metre crane directly behind the cab.

 

The spacers are a separate piece and just slide over the studs, it may be possible to use 2 as the studs are quite long and the wheel nuts are also longer than modern equivalents. You may have to watch the overall width though.

 

The tanker diffs are the same size as on the tractors and a direct fit in the axles, I couldn't swap the axles as the main cross member and brackets for the radius arms were different. If ever you need to remove the leading axle diff give me a shout as there are 2 nuts which took some head scratching to locate.

 

If you ever take it off road make sure the center diff is locked, the gear that drives the pinion shaft is fitted metal to metal on the through drive shaft and will weld itself together if the diff spins for any time.

 

IIRC the tanker springs were 11 leaf rather than 9 on the tractor.

 

What is that crane from, is it ex military?

 

Mike

Edited March 31, 2013 by radiomike7