attleej Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Dear All, I am 67 and have had a Landrover all my adult life. In that time I have had three insurance incidents with a Landrover. In the late 1970s I had a minor collision with a Van. He crossed a give way line at a crossroads and I think that he was prosecuted for careless driving ( he was as unwise as to insist on reporting the accident to a kind policeman who said "are you sure that you want to report this?). In 2018 I had a car bump into the back of me and their insurance company accepted liability in writing. In 2021 my Defender 90 was stolen and what remained of it was found by the police in a 'chop shop' near Odium a few days later. I have held an HGV licence since about 1977. I have been a qualified Army driving instructor since about 1981 and have a full C + E licence. I am married and own my own house. Those who know me well will recognise that I am under untense and proper scrutiny as regards my personal conduct. The Chelsea Tractor Manufacturing Company has been selling expensive and unreliable tractors suitable for use in Chelsea. Unfortunately, the company appears to lack the willingness or ability to make them secure so they are very frequently being stolen (as was my Defender). The insurance companies have obviously had to raise the insurance premiums in order to meet the increased claims. I use my 2002 Disco D2 as a workhorse as it was intended to be. Unfortunately, the insurance companies are linking together Chelsea Tractor owners spending between £50 to £100K on a vehicle with people like us who use a £10K vehicle as a workhorse and maintain them ourselves. The upshot is that the large national insurance broker who has bought up other well know brokers is unable to put forward any insurance company who will insure me at a reasonable price. There is a complication. I was obliged to notify that we use the Disco to escort the tank transporter. Last year we went from Lyneham to Capel. This year it might be Welland Steam Rally as well. As soon as I mentioned the work "tank" this became a huge problem whereas it had never been in the years before when I have notified of this slightly unusual use. One insurance company withdrew their offer and would not re-instate it even if I said we would not use the vehicle for escorting a tank transporter. Note that the problem appears to be the Defence connotations and there can be no doubt that I am intimately linked with Defence. In other words, what we have is wokery. Below is what I got back from the broker in respect of the insurance company that was covering the Disco and in the knowledge that for several years they had agreed the risk. XXXX declined the renewal of the car insurance purely on the basis that the vehicle will be taken to and driven on the site of a MOD / Military premises. With my day job hat on, I would be very grateful if anyone in the wider Defence community is experiencing similar problems which seem to be linked into Nick Mead's. PMs would be appropriate. When I was looking into Nick's problem, I discovered that the banks had been quietly debanking firms in the defence sector and this was not understood by Government at the time. This is because it is a very sensitive issue for firms concerned as going public could make matters even worse. Therefor, for those who are in the Defence sector but not at the top of your organisation's food chain, it might be worth just drawing your top person's attention to this post. Finally, does anyone still have an 'old time' independent insurance broker who can secure insurance for a Disco D2 used as a workhorse for play but with subsiding the insurance costs of the Chelsea Tractors. I am also worried about being able to renew the insurance on the Contractor for similar reasons. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Herbert Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Sorry to hear of your problems John. I gave up running a Range Rover because of the dreadful reliability and now run a 2019 Dacia Duster which is a vastly better vehicle though not as big or posh of course. I wonder if you needed to mention the word 'Tank'. I think I would have written 'occasional escorting of trucks carrying oversize loads'. I know that I am a bit late with that suggestion! David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attleej Posted January 4 Author Share Posted January 4 David, Under the insurance principle of uberrima fides, now that I know that "tank" is a potential problem, I have to mention it. I cannot later claim that I did not know what I am doing. I forgot to mention that I have NEVER been prosecuted for any motoring offence, or any other offence. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7VHU Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Ouch! logical progression is that they’ll insure you (third party) only if you never take it out of the garage..taking risk averse to a whole new level? Maybe their computer can’t quantify the risk. So how do service personnel get insurance for their personal transport? I was once asked if the winch on the front of my Defender would make it go faster? Yes, if I removed it! good luck in the hunt for a sane insurer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john1950 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 A sign of our times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ploughman Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 I have used a Broker here in York for the last 40 years plus. I have no idea if your requirements could be covered, but you don't know unless you ask. I was covered for my S3 SWB until I sold it last year as well as my day to day Freelander. Other than being a client of the Broker I have no other connection with them. Hope this helps. Bryan Illingworths Insurance Brokers Insurance Broker in York, North Yorkshire, YO1 7LA Address: Newgate House, 1 Newgate, York YO1 7LA Hours: Closed ⋅ Opens 9 am Fri Phone: 01904 631622 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatchFuzee Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Try the NFU Mutual:- https://www.nfumutual.co.uk/ They have a number of local agency offices:- https://www.nfumutual.co.uk/agent-offices/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Some suggestions here from Land Rover Monthly magazine: Complete guide to Insurance - Land Rover Monthly Not sure if a Disco would be much different in risk to a Defender though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 I continue to be amazed that the manufacturers of Chelsea Tractors don't do something about their woeful vehicle security. They just seem content to pass the problem to the insurance companies and thence to all of us in increased premiums all round. Does anyone really need keyless entry or ignition? Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johann morris Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 A gentleman who lives near me has a 4 year old range rover which he is selling because of the enormous increase in his year insurance premium. When he contacted the insurance company, they told him that the increase was due to the vehicles appeal to thieves and the ease that it can be stolen. He is in his 60's and lives in the back end of nowhere, I can't remember the exact figure but it was somewhere around £4000. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk3iain Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 minute ago, johann morris said: A gentleman who lives near me has a 4 year old range rover which he is selling because of the enormous increase in his year insurance premium. When he contacted the insurance company, they told him that the increase was due to the vehicles appeal to thieves and the ease that it can be stolen. He is in his 60's and lives in the back end of nowhere, I can't remember the exact figure but it was somewhere around £4000. Jon Nuts, I have seen a request by a new "Defender" owner for insurance cover. Land Rover came back and recommended their own company. They replied with a refusal to cover him. There were no extenuating circumstances, you could not make this up..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob.Brindley Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 I work in the aftermarket automotive sector and we've seen a huge increase in trackers being fitted to Land / Range Rovers. A lot of insurance companies are either refusing to insure without them or charging extreme premiums if you refuse to fit them. I did hear that Landrover we're looking at offering their own insurance scheme to help combat the problem? Of course they could just try and stop them being so easily stolen in the first place... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attleej Posted January 5 Author Share Posted January 5 Apparently Landrover have stopped their insurance scheme because the rate of claims made it unaffordable. I have always been astounded how childlike the so called security systems are. For instance, being able to use a relay system to stimulate the Fob to transmit its code to malevolently acquire the unlock code. Surely you would have a system whereby when the Fob meets the car, the car sends a one time code that the fob has to authenticate. If the 'car' sends an invalid challenge code the fob ignores it. If it is a good challenge, ie it is a code that the Fob is expecting, perhaps even only for that time and day, it sends back a code to the car which the car recognises as the correct response to the challenge code. With such a system, it would be no good recoding the transmissions for use later as the codes used each and every time would be different. If you consider 20 unlocks per day, 365 days per year for 20 years that is still only about 150,000 authentication codes which is nothing for modern storage devices. I suspect that part of the problem is that there are large numbers of engineers involved in developing the systems. Organised crime could easily afford £100K to corrupt the right person. Very often there will be a 'back' door into the system. Thank you to everyone who has offered help and advice. I now have a plan although it will take a few days next week for it to come to fruition. Members should note that Howden Insurance Brokers know that they have left me without insurance and have done nothing about it. They have only got one offer available at £800 but the insurance company concerned will not cover anything to do with "MOD / military premises". John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attleej Posted January 5 Author Share Posted January 5 I believe that the trouble with the trackers is that the thieves will put the vehicle into a container ie a faraday box ASAP and before the vehicle is missed. Once the tracker starts transmitting, it is easily found and disabled. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatchFuzee Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Jaguar Land Rover (JLR) UK has reaffirmed its commitment to vehicle security, ensuring vehicles are protected and updated with the latest technology to prevent thefts. https://media.jaguarlandrover.com/news/2023/11/jlr-invests-vehicle-security-reduce-thefts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 14 hours ago, MatchFuzee said: Jaguar Land Rover (JLR) UK has reaffirmed its commitment to vehicle security, ensuring vehicles are protected and updated with the latest technology to prevent thefts. https://media.jaguarlandrover.com/news/2023/11/jlr-invests-vehicle-security-reduce-thefts Any chance they might do the obvious and revert to mechanical locks? 🙂 Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attleej Posted January 8 Author Share Posted January 8 This afternoon I had a quote from Ageas via Footman James. £2364 and that is without being able escort the transporter. At this rate I will be calling he car breakers to come and tow the Disco away for scrap. Since in my opinion you need a tough vehicle and not a car to escort an abnormal load, the outlook for the Big Trailer is bleak indeed. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Have you considered setting up a Ltd. Company , business of Abnormal Load ESCORT , you having the Lion's share of £100 paid-up ? Capital equipment , vinyl chevrons, couple of amber beacons , old Ford Transit or Toyota pick-up or even a old Range Rover or Fiat Panda 4x4 LoL (I have one). ISTR that brokers love real commercial business and 5+ vehicles insurance & the premium £ tumbles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attleej Posted January 8 Author Share Posted January 8 I think that it would be much more fun to set up an escort agency and you don't need any insurance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 11 hours ago, attleej said: I think that it would be much more fun to set up an escort agency and you don't need any insurance. Might need public liability insurance, perhaps? 🙂 Andy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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