Karrier WDS

Doc · December 30, 2020

We joined Dave (S&F) on Boxing Day. No! Not in Kent, in shared experience. The infection rate in Suffolk is now lower than it was in London when London was in tier two so the only logical and responsible thing to do was to thrust Suffolk into tier four. Personally I think Matty Hancock was a bit slipshod colouring in his tier map. When he shaded Essex and Norfolk he went over the lines and rather than rub it out and risk making a mess of it, we got it too. A bit more practice with the crayons when he was a lad and all this could have been avoided.

Fortunately, I had the foresight to get some steel in stock before Christmas. So in the spare time between eating and drinking, I've made a start on the new skirt for the bulkhead.

Trial fitting, loosely in position

Bolted in position. Note the angle iron support has been trimmed down to allow clearance for the wooden door pillars.

Screws trimmed to length and a quick coat of primer to keep the rust out.

Happy New Year.

Doc

Doc · January 13, 2021

Stay at home! Stay indoors!

It's January, so I've needed little encouragement to heed this advice. Although we now have a condensation-free shed roof, it's still far from warm. My office, on the other hand has a wood burner with a fire on the grate.

So I've been studying Karrier lorry photographs and in particular petrol can carriers.

Images 1-5 show carriers for three cans, differing in certain details, principally: height of the dividers, and latch bar construction. (1) uniquely shows a hinged latch bar locking over a circular pin. (2) and (4) show a bar twisted at either end articulated via a forged link, not unlike chain construction. (5) is attached via a staple and a T head is forged on the free end to close over a 2nd staple through which a padlock can be fitted.

(6) and (7) show carriers for a single can but also including a toolbox or locker. No doubt used to house a funnel and such items of stores (oil, grease, cotton waste etc) as could be drawn down.

(6) latch bar, though necessarily shorter, shares constructional details with (5)

(7) shows the locking end bent through 90 degrees such that the lock lays neatly against the carrier.

The variation is fascinating.

I've been experimenting in the virtual world of 3D cad and have built the following two models:

Next step is to produce drawings and a cutting list and see if I can change the virtual into reality.

Doc

PS many thanks to Tim Gosling for sharing the photos from which these details were snipped.

Great War truck · January 13, 2021

Thanks. I thought i recognised them. Did the civilian Karriers still have the can holder?

Doc · January 13, 2021

13 minutes ago, Great War truck said:

Thanks. I thought i recognised them. Did the civilian Karriers still have the can holder?

That's a very good question and not one I was able to answer straight away. Then I remembered this advert from Commercial Motor:

So yes, seems like they may have done.

Great War truck · January 13, 2021

There we go. Subsidy pattern body as well.

Doc · January 13, 2021

Indeed. But civilian pattern enclosed cab. Advert is from the June 17th 1919 edition (cover reproduced below). Would this be too early to be a refurbished ex. W^D vehicle?

Tomo.T · January 13, 2021

There were many examples of WD lorries of all makes, hastily diverted to the civilian market, following the cancellation of military contracts. Refurbished trucks were also readily available.

nz2 · January 14, 2021

From the Thornycroft production records it is interesting to read through and note the increasing supply of lorries to the civilian market prior to the end of the war. New vehicles during war time are listed as being supplied to essential industries along with the batches to the War Office, but not many . Over that last six months or thereabouts the ratio of vehicles available steadily increases to the civilian market to the point of almost total civilian come August 1918.

This is from my observation taken from the Thornycroft records. Perhaps other manufacturers were involved likewise.

Doug

andypugh · January 22, 2021

Yesterday afternoon I was bringing my mum's car back from getting some new tyres and realised that I was passing the Karrier factory, so popped round for a look.

It is currently operating as an indoor car park, which means that if one wished you could have a look inside. (I didn't)

https://goo.gl/maps/oRu2ERmF7D5KKun96

The far end of the building has a "To Let" sign on it at the moment, so perhaps you could rent it as a home for your truck 🙂

Edited January 22, 2021 by andypugh

andypugh · January 22, 2021

I just had a look at https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/map-search (search for Nile Street, Huddersfield) and the Karrier Works is not listed. I wonder if a submission should be made? Karrier were an important Huddersfield company for several decades.

Bob Grundy · January 22, 2021

Andy

Yes a submission should be made, built 1917 that should help.

Bob

andypugh · January 25, 2021

I emailed the local planning officer (I have had previous contact with him).

--------8<------------------------

Hi Andy

For it to be listed by Historic England it would need to be of importance nationally, although contribution to the national war effort may help the building make the grade. I recall the site of a large munitions works near Thorp Arch was scheduled recently. The guides used by Historic England to determine if a building is listable is online at https://historicengland.org.uk/images-books/publications/dlsg-industrial/heag134-industrial-buildings-lsg/

Its interesting that the building appears to date from 1917, or at least part of it does.

We may, emphasis on the may, develop a local list of buildings of interest in the future so it may be suitable for that if not.

Unfortunately we’ve not got the capacity at the present time to put buildings forward for listing, but if you’ve got good knowledge of the company and their role in the war effort it would be worth giving it a go. The forms are online at

https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/apply-for-listing/

Doc · January 25, 2021

If the building could be protected I would say "Not before time." We've lost too much evidence of our engineering prowess as a nation already. So where is this building in relation to this one:

(can no longer remember the origins of this photograph - I likely found it on Google - reproduced for research/educational purposes)

I thought I had seen a picture of the stones from the Karrier Motors frieze on the ground. Is this a different building? Does it still stand? Please excuse my ignorance.

Thanks

Andy

andypugh · January 25, 2021

1 hour ago, Doc said:

If the building could be protected I would say "Not before time." We've lost too much evidence of our engineering prowess as a nation already.

I don't know enough about the history of Karrier to make the submission to the listing body. So I am not volunteering.

(Just in case anyone was assuming that I had started the process)

1 hour ago, Doc said:

So where is this building in relation to this one:

Hard to say. I don't recognise it, but then I only saw the existing one for the first time last week.

The successor company might know, they seem well aware of their history:

http://www.clayton-penistone.co.uk/about-us.aspx

Le Prof · January 26, 2021

Hi,

It's possibly this aspect, with the top chopped off.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Cable+St,+Huddersfield+HD1+3LP,+UK/@53.6398002,-1.7899553,3a,75y,110.81h,93.64t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sfAkEXVVOi-V_kXjN_MHIDg!2e0!3e11!7i16384!8i8192!4m5!3m4!1s0x487bdc77723a63b7:0x37b3b3738ea8f222!8m2!3d53.6403324!4d-1.7895047

Best Regards,

Adrian

andypugh · January 26, 2021

1 hour ago, Le Prof said:

Hi,

It's possibly this aspect, with the top chopped off.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Cable+St,+Huddersfield+HD1+3LP,+UK/@53.6398002,-1.7899553,3a,75y,110.81h,93.64t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sfAkEXVVOi-V_kXjN_MHIDg!2e0!3e11!7i16384!8i8192!4m5!3m4!1s0x487bdc77723a63b7:0x37b3b3738ea8f222!8m2!3d53.6403324!4d-1.7895047

Best Regards,

Adrian

Maybe not even the top chopped off. The perspective is different (wide angle lens?) but the top panels and number of bays is the same, the same odd round window is probably hiding behind the JD logo. Perhaps the "Karrier Works" letters were wooden rather than carved into the stone?

Doc · January 26, 2021

Yes, that looks like the same building, though the terrace of houses has been lost, along with the factory building in the near distance.

As soon as Boris says it's ok, I think I need to take a train ride to Huddersfield and do some exploring.

All very interesting...

andypugh · January 26, 2021

1 hour ago, Doc said:

As soon as Boris says it's ok, I think I need to take a train ride to Huddersfield and do some exploring.

The second finest railway station in the land. (After St Pancras)

Doc · January 26, 2021

55 minutes ago, andypugh said:

The second finest railway station in the land. (After St Pancras)

Magnificent!

Doc · February 27, 2021

Sorry I've not posted anything here for a while. I made a little internet purchase about a month ago but have been waiting for it to arrive... surface mail from Australia. So here it is:

Aerial view of the Karrier works, c. 1930 according to the vendor's description.

Enjoy.

Doc.

Morris C8 · February 27, 2021

Bottom lower left looks the same building.

Doc · February 28, 2021

Karrier progress has been slow of late. On account of my extended period away from work I've not had access to the machine shop. The last few weeks have been spent commissioning my own workshop. First machine to see action is my Dean Smith and Grace lathe. This would have been scarcely five years old when the Karrier was recovered in 1977; it's still got plenty of years left in it. A very different machine to the Harrison M300 I'm used to, it has to be said.

I repurposed an old copper drift, turning it into a mandrel to support the broken steering ball joint so it could be welded back together.

Thanks to my brother Gerald for doing the welding.

So now I was able to complete the fitting of the drag link.

Another small job crossed off the list.

andypugh · February 28, 2021

2 hours ago, Doc said:

First machine to see action is my Dean Smith and Grace lathe.

A Yorkshire lathe for a Yorkshire truck.
Though, at the time, most of them were.

Doc · March 14, 2021

2018 Great Dorset Steam Fair my brother was greeted by a fellow WW1 exhibitor (who will remain anonymous) hollering across the showground "I'm envious of your body!" I'm not sure why this should come to mind as I prepare to share photographs of my small parts...

So I've been making parts for the Yorkshire-built lorry on my Yorkshire-built lathe: knob for the choke rod and collars for the governor control rod

Back collar in position with a small tap wrench clamped up snugly behind

then transferred to the milling machine to drill the split pin hole

The mill was not made in Yorkshire. It's actually a 1980 vintage Tos Kurim FNK25A built in Czechoslovakia. The DRO must be a museum piece by now, but it still works.

Back in position to account for the position of the front collar

and the tap wrench to put a little preload on the spring. The position was measured with a Vernier calliper before dismantling and returning to the mill.