Karrier WDS

[Doc]

Midweek. Rusty stuff.

Previously I've posted various pictures of treasure. Yesterday evening I started looking more closely at the front mudguards. Bolt holes and rust scour marks on the chassis rails indicate the original locations of the brackets though the brackets themselves are long gone.

I bent some thin steel to try and visualise how they might have been; no matter how long I stood and looked at the pattern of the bolt holes (or at least the rusty patches where the bolt holes had once been) I couldn't make any sense of how the brackets might be bent to coincide with the holes.

Tonight David took one look and said " You don't think that mudguard was off something else?"

I think he may have a point...

So it seems that these are the Karrier mudguard remains.

[Doc]

So what have I been up to this week? In order to finish the construction of the off side bulkhead buttress, I needed to account for the position of the accelerator pedal.This was located in a boss cast on the side of the bulkhead. The pedal shaft did not run directly in this boss, rather it carried a fixed steel tube with brass bearings at its extremities.

First, this had to be excised from the old bulkhead: a job for the angle grinder and a thin slitting disk.

The tube wouldn't drive out as there was some stray weld uniting it with the boss. More careful work with the grinder and out it came.

Yes! It's an original part. The number is no longer visible. The rust moth fed that to her young, but the stamping "WDS" has survived.

The accelerator / throttle linkage never lined up particularly well, fouling the steering column at the extremes of travel, so I decided to experiment with the optimum position for the pedal and linkage.

Please don't look too critically at my carpentry. It served the purpose, enabling me to raise and lower the pedal with plywood "shims" whilst translating it forwards and backwards.

The result of this was full travel without fouling and a derived dimension for the centre of the shaft.

The bulkhead was returned to the radial drill to drill the hole.

A quick drawing of the boss was prepared in Autocad. Many thanks to Jon for turning the boss for me on Monday morning and posting it to Suffolk the same day, also for having the foresight to send it First Class. It arrived on Saturday.

It fitted perfectly. Here it is clamped in place in preparation for welding.

After some filling and sanding, these parts have taken their turn in the paint shop.

 

So, while I was waiting for the bush, I took a closer look at the front mudguard brackets. One of the 1997 photographs show the near side front bracket clearly.

So we can see the bracket was formed from angle iron with the flat face forward. This and the rust patterns  on the mudguard and the chassis inform the position of the bends.

Having worked out the dimensions I first cut a template from 16 swg steel. Next I notched and bent the brackets to shape.

Brackets are obviously mirror images of each other, so I made them together on the same piece of steel for fear of accidentally making two the same. Thanks to my brother Gerald for the welding.

After welding and fettling, on to the radial drill. 

Trial fitting. These must rate as some of the ugliest mudguard brackets in Christendom, which may go some way to explaining they they were discarded.

 

[Doc]

It's been a funny week. Maybe after ten weeks of the "new normal" the novelty is starting to wear a bit thin. It's felt as though I've not achieved as much as I would have liked, but somehow, taking the time to stop and consider in order to write it down, maybe those feelings are misplaced. In reality, it was a slow start to the week, but the three day weekend has more than made up for it.

Continuing with the bulkhead theme, the new fabricated buttresses are in first coat green, so it was time to offer it back up to the chassis to set the position of the accelerator shaft bearing tube.

One imagines this was originally press fit in the boss on the casting.

After a 20 minute wait, mine is press-fit too!

While thinking about a trial fitting of the bulkhead, I thought I had better drag the exhaust manifold and pipe out from one of the darker recesses of the shed.

If this fouls the reproduction bulkhead, I would prefer to know before I've invested the time in preparing and painting.

Quite respectable for 100 years old. Made from steel, unlike the metal that passes for steel today. 

So while it was out in the yard, I thought I would remove the silencer flange. Quick whiz through the nuts with an angle grinder and slitting disk, and off came the flange. The torn shards under the bolt heads must be the remains of the silencer body.

Flange and copper-asbestos gasket. 

One things leads to another. How many times have you said "I'll just..." and before you know where you are the whole afternoon has gone. In this case it was "I'll just take a wire brush to the unsightly blue paint drips on the manifold."

I have no idea where the afternoon went, but it took most of the rust off the manifold with it. Very pleased with that for a first going over. A trip to Screwfix is required to get some wire brushes more suitable for getting into the nooks and crannies.

The only corrosion is on the last 1.1/2" by the silencer flange. Maybe bimetallic in origin due to the braze filler?

The other jobs I have completed this week have been around the back axle. The back axle and torque tube have had first coat black; such a dramatic change, they've been in grey undercoat for so long... 

Spring saddle was in top coat fairly early on, so was hard enough for the leaf spring to be re-fitted.

Prior to that, all the greaser holes were tapped out to remove excess paint.

Quick "cheat" with the grease-gun before fitting the greaser.

Re-fitting the brakes.

I mentioned previously that I had saved the Grover washers from the brake shoes. I sorted out four decent ones and put them to good use:

Pride of place retaining the reproduction tail-lamp brackets.

 

 

[daleheywoodtanks]

Watching with interest. Well done.

[Old Bill]

Looking good!

Did you put the spring on any sort of pad? I have often seen springs seated on a red fibre pad but never understood why this should be. I have had great difficulty in sourcing any sort of replacements for them and have generally done without.

Steve  

[andypugh]

28 minutes ago, Old Bill said:

Did you put the spring on any sort of pad? I have often seen springs seated on a red fibre pad but never understood why this should be. I have had great difficulty in sourcing any sort of replacements for them and have generally done without.

The 1916 Dennis fire engine has blocks of oak between the spring and axle, but these might not be original.

I assume that the red fibre is somewhat thicker than the normal fibre washers? 

3mm is available here: https://www.rhnuttall.co.uk/materials/vulcanised-fibre/

[Doc]

12 hours ago, Old Bill said:

Looking good!

Did you put the spring on any sort of pad? I have often seen springs seated on a red fibre pad but never understood why this should be. I have had great difficulty in sourcing any sort of replacements for them and have generally done without.

Steve  

Steve,

There was no evidence of packing material, so I refitted them metal to metal. Then again, I'm not the first person to take these apart. Red fibre could be advantageous in removing point loads due to surface imperfections, but would need to be a grade not prone to extrusion otherwise one would never keep the springs tight. I don't remember anything mentioned in the photocopy parts book but I don't have it to hand and I fear it will be a few weeks before I will be able to retreive it. I have just consulted The Book of the Thornycroft by "Auriga". This makes no mention of fibre pads either. Maybe this was an in-service modification borne out of experience. I have managed to find red fibre as thin sheets (same company as kindly suggested by Andy in the previous post) but stout blocks that might be clamped to a faceplate and machined to a profile, this eludes me. Off topic, but this was the material used for the clutch withdrawal blocks on a WW1 Saunderson model G tractor. I have made replacements from Tufnol, but this would probably be too hard to use under a spring.

Regards

Andy

[Citroman]

My 1925 citroen has also fibre plates between chassis and springs.

[8_10 Brass Cleaner]

apparently Austin also fitted them the 7HP. Most restorers don't bother.

I've been saving Grover washers, from other peoples restorations to fit on my Fowler roller. Fitted some yesterday

[andypugh]

33 minutes ago, 8_10 Brass Cleaner said:

I've been saving Grover washers, from other peoples restorations to fit on my Fowler roller. Fitted some yesterday

Ben found a source in India:

 

 

[Doc]

This weekend would have been "Woolpit Steam." Which would have meant a week off work to toil from dawn till dark setting up the show and clearing away afterwards. Like pretty much every other semblance of normality this was cancelled on account of the pandemic. Which means I've spent all my evenings and the weekend in the shed doing lorry jobs and I still have the weeks holiday. The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away.

Nearside Rear Wheel

Refitting the offside rear wheel was somewhat fraught due to the crane operator (me) consistently forgetting which button was which and the assistant becoming increasingly frustrated with the ineptitude of the aforementioned crane operator. Hence the lack of photographs. I was determined not to fall into the same trap with the nearside rear wheel. It's recycling bin this week and the refuse collectors have been a bit tardy, so I was able to retrieve this morning's empty cereal box and make myself this skilfully executed aide memoir.

This time, the roles were reversed; I was assistant, leveling the axle with the bottle jack, guiding the wheel onto the axle and giving instructions. The first question from the crane operator: "Which way, left or right?" There are some questions which are just impossible to answer, like Sarah Platt asking Todd Grimshaw whether he wants rice or chips with his Chinese takeaway. I digress. Once the communication channels were clearly established the lift went flawlessly, allowing plenty of time to pause and take photographs.

With a wheel on each corner once again, we were able to push the lorry out into the yard in order to turn it round, giving better access to the front axle.

So today has been about removing the front axle. The front end was lifted using the gantry and chain blocks with a pair of axle stands placed under the chassis just behind the flywheel. With the weight off the front springs, the front pins were driven out with a hammer and copper drift. The rear pins are undone and likewise withdrawn.

Nearside front pine almost out.

Offside rear pin being unscrewed.

Front axle being walked out with a couple of 3" x 2" timber levers and bolts in the rear spring eyes.

Front axle safely removed.

[8_10 Brass Cleaner]

On ‎5‎/‎26‎/‎2020 at 4:36 PM, andypugh said:

Ben found a source in India:

 

 

Yes, a good find. Thankfully I am restoring it to the condition it ended work in 1963, not as built. Many of the fixings are already missing them. I'm not therefore being to keen with what I put back, so long as the washers fit, and the fixings are whit I'm happy. I've had access to a lot of nuts and bolts removed from a 1909 Fowler Road locomotive during its recent and thorough restoration (the restorer has made all new whit nuts and bolts to pre war size using CNC), which have been a big help, I think Ben will have got his Austin cylinder pattern from the same place.

With respect to this restoration, I do have a few long large whit coatchbolts knocking about, all red rusty of course, but all new. I'll chuck them all in a box, I shall not be using any on the roller.

[Doc]

Very kind of you to put them to one side. Thank-you.

[Doc]

News flash! Hot off the press! Royal Mail delivered a couple of parcels today. Their contents:

Howes and Burley side light and tail light. OK, maybe not everybody's first choice but the lorry came to me with Howes and Burley headlights and matching acetylene generator.

The tea chests contained a pair of newly-fabricated fork type sidelight brackets.

So if anyone knows  the whereabouts of a matching sidelight, I would be pleased to hear.

Now, doesn't that look nice...

[8_10 Brass Cleaner]

I have a H&B sidelight here, I'll see if it matches the one you have there

[Doc]

Thank-you.

I can pm further pictures. Or take a look on eBay completed items Howes & Burley. "&" not "and" to be sure of finding it. 

Regards, Andy

[8_10 Brass Cleaner]

mine is a spade mount, so doesnt match sorry

[Doc]

13 hours ago, 8_10 Brass Cleaner said:

mine is a spade mount, so doesnt match sorry

Thanks for looking. 

Andy

[Doc]

Some pictures from September 2019.

Who would have thought that two tea chests could hold so much treasure, but among the items was a pair of new-cast front hooks. So back when "working from work" was the norm, I set the hooks up on the Bridgeport and machined them square before drilling and boring the holes.

Hooks were a right b***** (I think that's enough *s) to hold. This method seemed to work...

Boring the first hole in the pair of hooks.

To ensure the holes were aligned, I turned a spigot to the diameter of the first hole onto a piece of hexagonal aluminium bar and bolted it to the bed of the mill. Having clocked the spigot, I could then clamp the hooks in place, drill and bore the second pair of holes.

So after removing the front axle assembly this weekend, I did a trial fitting, just to see what they would look like.

I have no  idea if my lorry ever carried hooks  but I think they look rather grand. Practical too.

[Citroman]

French army trucks often had fixed  curled hooks called pig tails. 😊

[Doc]

My brother spotted a couple of WW1 post cards on eBay. After a few seconds of furious bidding they were mine. (Sorry if the under bidder was a forum regular). Anyway, they just arrived in the post so I have taken some time out from work to share them.

The seller disclosed that they had belonged to a distant aunt who lived in Birmingham. A spinster, she died in the 1980s.

From my perspective they show lots of interesting detail, especially the front mudguard brackets and, unusually, the inside of the cab. 

The seller was wondering about the identity of the gentleman in the first picture. So, here's the challenge: what can be discerned from the uniforms, the fleet number on the bonnet, the inscription on the inside of the cab door?

There is a name penciled on the back of the first picture, but I'll not share that in open forum. If anyone thinks they can do some research, I'll make that name available by private message.

[Le Prof]

Hi @Doc

"The Bing Boys" refers to a very popular music hall show at the Alhambra in London, between 1916 and 1918.

Probably the most well known song today from it is 'If you were the only girl in the world'. Though they may of been thinking of "Another little drink wouldn't do us any harm" (-:

More details here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bing_Boys_Are_Here

The cap badge is probably RASC, Royal Army Service Corps.

If the name is reasonably uncommon (not Jhn Smith!) I could probably do some more detailed research, if you want?

Best Regards,

Adrian

[Rootes75]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

My brother spotted a couple of WW1 post cards on eBay. After a few seconds of furious bidding they were mine. (Sorry if the under bidder was a forum regular). Anyway, they just arrived in the post so I have taken some time out from work to share them.

The seller disclosed that they had belonged to a distant aunt who lived in Birmingham. A spinster, she died in the 1980s.

From my perspective they show lots of interesting detail, especially the front mudguard brackets and, unusually, the inside of the cab. 

The seller was wondering about the identity of the gentleman in the first picture. So, here's the challenge: what can be discerned from the uniforms, the fleet number on the bonnet, the inscription on the inside of the cab door?

There is a name penciled on the back of the first picture, but I'll not share that in open forum. If anyone thinks they can do some research, I'll make that name available by private message.

In my possession I have a pack of WW1 original Kodak negatives that were found in a case many years ago by my Grandfather.

Most pictures are of soldiers carrying out daily routines but there are some that show vehicles. 

I will find them out this afternoon and start scanning them and post them here.

Kevin

[Great War truck]

3 hours ago, Doc said:

My brother spotted a couple of WW1 post cards on eBay. After a few seconds of furious bidding they were mine. (Sorry if the under bidder was a forum regular). 

Sorry for making you pay so much. That was me. 

[Doc]

5 hours ago, Le Prof said:

Hi @Doc

"The Bing Boys" refers to a very popular music hall show at the Alhambra in London, between 1916 and 1918.

Probably the most well known song today from it is 'If you were the only girl in the world'. Though they may of been thinking of "Another little drink wouldn't do us any harm" (-:

More details here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bing_Boys_Are_Here

The cap badge is probably RASC, Royal Army Service Corps.

If the name is reasonably uncommon (not Jhn Smith!) I could probably do some more detailed research, if you want?

Best Regards,

Adrian

Adrian, thank you for filling in some of the back story. I'll pm you the name on the card. If you manage to find anything that correlates with the photograph, and, as a courtesy, with the vendor's permission maybe we might share your discoveries with the forum. 

Regards

Andy