Doc Posted July 22, 2021 Author Share Posted July 22, 2021 Tomo, No worries. Does no harm to be cautious. Though in reality there was no "added value" as I bid less than £10 (though would have been prepared to pay more). Steve, Thanks for sharing the pictures of your H&B horn. Details such as the rib behind the rolled edge look identical. Doc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 1, 2021 Author Share Posted August 1, 2021 Last summer, inspired by various posts on this forum, I thought that I would have a go at cleaning out the Karrier petrol tank. Molasses were bought from the local country store and diluted down. The wasps were fascinated by the whole affair. After several weeks in the tank, which was periodically rolled from side to side, the festering brew was drained into pails. It's true to say that I was less than impressed with the results. Another forum regular (Mr Pittock) had mentioned having tanks acid washed so I thought I would give that a go. The tank was delivered at the beginning of June (just before I returned to Bristol) and was ready for collection by the middle of July. I had said that I wasn't in any particular hurry for it. Well, what a transformation! So I'm back in Suffolk for a few days and have sealed the inside of the tank with "slosh". My godfathers, that's got expensive! But now the eco warriors are adulterating our petrol with ethanol, you can't be too careful. After it's little adventure the tank was not looking its best, so a bit of a sand and a repaint was required. Meanwhile, at the other end of the paint shop: Leyland bonnet. I didn't know David could move so quickly as when I pointed the camera in his direction. In other news I've refitted the front mudguards and started painting the top surfaces. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8_10 Brass Cleaner Posted August 3, 2021 Share Posted August 3, 2021 I used some of that sealant on the fuel tank of my Austin 7, some 20years ago. After having repaired a single hole with some epoxy. Its still going strong 21 years later. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 8, 2021 Author Share Posted August 8, 2021 My brief to Suffolk is now at an end but not before refitting the petrol tank. I'm still in two minds about the orientation. This is the position it was in when I received the lorry but period images show it mounted differently. It will just squeeze on this way round but the tank is only partly seated on the near side saddle with the strap hard up on the seam. Perhaps this reproduction tank is a little short or maybe in civilian use the tank was mounted differently. One of the last jobs was to sand off and topcoat the front mudguards. Mercifully it's not flying insect suicide season in our corner of Suffolk. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 That tank is remarkably like the Dennis tank. I guess it was an available standard of the period. Dennis mounted the tank with the filler on the rhs and the sump and tap just outside the tank saddle so just the same as in your manual. All looking very nice. You will be out and about next year! Steve 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 9, 2021 Author Share Posted August 9, 2021 48 minutes ago, Old Bill said: That tank is remarkably like the Dennis tank. Steve 😁 I don't have photos to hand, but the Leyland tank is also very similar. Only significant difference: the Leyland tank is mounting on wooden saddles that form part of the seat box whereas the Karrier and Dennis have the tank mounted on cast brackets bolted directly to the chassis. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andypugh Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Old Bill said: That tank is remarkably like the Dennis tank. I guess it was an available standard of the period. Dennis mounted the tank with the filler on the rhs Steve 😁 Not always, on our N-type the filler is under the passenger side seat, though the fuel outlet is on the right hand (carbutettor) side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flandersflyer Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 On 1/25/2021 at 11:31 AM, andypugh said: I emailed the local planning officer (I have had previous contact with him). --------8<------------------------ Hi Andy For it to be listed by Historic England it would need to be of importance nationally, although contribution to the national war effort may help the building make the grade. I recall the site of a large munitions works near Thorp Arch was scheduled recently. The guides used by Historic England to determine if a building is listable is online at https://historicengland.org.uk/images-books/publications/dlsg-industrial/heag134-industrial-buildings-lsg/ Its interesting that the building appears to date from 1917, or at least part of it does. We may, emphasis on the may, develop a local list of buildings of interest in the future so it may be suitable for that if not. Unfortunately we’ve not got the capacity at the present time to put buildings forward for listing, but if you’ve got good knowledge of the company and their role in the war effort it would be worth giving it a go. The forms are online at https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/apply-for-listing/ The munitions works near Thorpe Arch may be referring to Barnbows....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 31, 2021 Author Share Posted August 31, 2021 Nipples. Now that got your attention. I turned my attention to the radiator overflow which had been blanked off with a rubber disk backed up by a steel washer. So a new 1/2" solder nipple was required. This and the petrol fittings are all the same size so I planned to make 5. Then David spotted that they are the same size on the Leyland (water heating on intake manifold) and on the Ransomes Wizard stationary engines that are being restored. So five became thirteen. And one more for luck. Now I need to find an off cut of brass to make two more nuts. 1/2" diameter steel arrived while I was in the city; I've been waiting for that to complete the radiator stay. Trial fitting After its turn in the paint shop. Sorry, not the best picture. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshire Steve Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 Just for info have just created a Tylor webage on Wikipedia, hopefully it tallies with the info here. Clayton used Tylor engines from the outset, AEC used Daimler sleeve-valve engines, but the JB4 had the blessing of the WD so AEC swapped to the Tylor for the YA onwards. So during WW1 it was in the Karrier, AEC Y type and 2 in each Whippet - were there any others? After the war it was claimed Tylor had made over 16,000 engines of one type for the military (must be the JB4) - not sure how this was made up, and must include a lot of spare engines. Guy Motors made a lot of the JB4s and I suspect there were other companies too. Nice to hear there are still some around. Great restoration work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted November 26, 2021 Author Share Posted November 26, 2021 Steve, Thanks for bringing news of your wiki page to this forum. There's interesting articles on the Commercial Motor archive. The JB4 engine was announced in their 26th July 1913 edition, followed by a detailed description in their 23rd December 1915 publication. A further article published May 26th 1925 reported that Tylor's (JB4) Ltd had acquired the whole stocks of JB4 spares from the manufacturers valued at between £25 and £30,000 to support the approximately 35,000 engines then in service. The link with Guy Motors is interesting; I have heard that before but am not aware of the details. But the reliance on sub-contract manufacture is understandable; a photograph, in the 1915 article, of twelve engines is described as one week's delivery. The Angus Sanderson car and the Tylor engine that powered it are described in detail in the 1920 supplement to Rankine Kennedy's 1913 three-part publication "The Book Of The Motor Car" Regards, Andy (Doc) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickAbbott Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 Keep meaning to post these pictures - same Tylor engine, as fitted to AEC Y type - it's not quite as shiny as this anymore! Nick 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshire Steve Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 7 hours ago, Doc said: Steve, Thanks for bringing news of your wiki page to this forum. There's interesting articles on the Commercial Motor archive. The JB4 engine was announced in their 26th July 1913 edition, followed by a detailed description in their 23rd December 1915 publication. A further article published May 26th 1925 reported that Tylor's (JB4) Ltd had acquired the whole stocks of JB4 spares from the manufacturers valued at between £25 and £30,000 to support the approximately 35,000 engines then in service. The link with Guy Motors is interesting; I have heard that before but am not aware of the details. But the reliance on sub-contract manufacture is understandable; a photograph, in the 1915 article, of twelve engines is described as one week's delivery. The Angus Sanderson car and the Tylor engine that powered it are described in detail in the 1920 supplement to Rankine Kennedy's 1913 three-part publication "The Book Of The Motor Car" Regards, Andy (Doc) Thanks for all the info. I came across mention of the Tylor motor a week ago, and found info on the company hard to find, so thought it deserved an entry. Commercial Motor archives and the British Newspaper Archive gave me a lot. I saw about the Tylor (JB4) Ltd parts company in a newspaper, but missed the 35,000 units - thanks. When looking for more on the Guy Motors production of the JB4 I found that the new 2ton Guy tested by Commercial Motor (25th May 1916) had a Tylor engine. So was this another War Office sanctioned JB4 vehicle? The main question I couldn't answer is why a third generation brass founder and sanitation engineering company suddenly started making truck engines - and really good ones at that ! It is all rather odd. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 19, 2022 Author Share Posted April 19, 2022 Nuts. Scant progress on the Karrier of late, but I have made a few nuts for the fuel lines. In other news, I've found (and bought) a Karrier spare parts list. Not the WDS, sadly, but a BR110. 5 ton, chain drive. Tylor JB4 engine, same as the WDS. I found a couple of images online which I've reproduced here for educational purposes. Doc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 21, 2022 Author Share Posted April 21, 2022 (edited) With nuts and nipples in hand, I've made and fitted the petrol pipe between the fuel filter and the carburettor. Inspired by this, I set about bending the oil line that leads to the dashboard-mounted tell-tale. It's a bit of a fiddle getting out from under the magneto bracket but I followed the lines of the crank-case and I'm satisfied with the result. Then made a simple jig to bend the p- clips. After a bit of drilling and fettling they were looking respectable too. Proof of this pudding was in the fitting. Masking and touching up the paintwork will see another job finished. Edited April 21, 2022 by Doc 1 photo posted in error. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 24, 2022 Author Share Posted April 24, 2022 Saturday I secured this haul of brass: which allowed me to complete the pipework for the heater jacket on the inlet manifold. Fortunately I had this image in my photocopy parts list as a guide: The petrol isolation tap is 3/8" BSP where it screws into the tank but takes a 1/2" union. I've not managed to find such a tap so in the meantime I've modified a 3/8"-3/8" tap to suit. I should have taken pictures of it in the lathe chuck but I had dirty hands. Here's the finished item fitted to the tank: The union is perilously close to the gearbox input coupling. So this morning we lifted the tank off and replaced it the other way round. This time there was plenty of room. though why the tank doesn't completely occupy the near side saddle is anybody's guess. Doc. Uploaded from a speeding Bristol-bound train. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshire Steve Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 Fabulous photos and description - keep it coming. I have always struggled with fuel union sizes and threads. Even older UK vehicles (mine is 1956) can have a Solex carb with metric threads, sometimes a 5 minute job can take ages just figuring our what threads you are dealing with. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andypugh Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 4 hours ago, Doc said: Sthough why the tank doesn't completely occupy the near side saddle is anybody's guess. There seems to be four possible arrangements. The filler can be offside or nearside, and the filler-cap-side strap can be inboard or outboard of the filler. I suspect that it belongs outboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QL Driver Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 Looking at the photo below, it looks to me like it's correct as fitted. On 8/8/2021 at 11:58 AM, Doc said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andypugh Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 7 hours ago, QL Driver said: Looking at the photo below, it looks to me like it's correct as fitted. Indeed it does. Though there seem to be witness marks for an alternative fitment on the tank itself (possibly very recent, though) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 25, 2022 Author Share Posted April 25, 2022 10 minutes ago, andypugh said: Indeed it does. Though there seem to be witness marks for an alternative fitment on the tank itself (possibly very recent, though) The marks are where I peeled the felts off prior to turning it round. I placed the tank as it was when I received the lorry. Photographs of it "as found" do not give any clues as the tank is largely hidden by the seat box. I'm pretty sure I've got it right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andypugh Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 14 hours ago, Doc said: though why the tank doesn't completely occupy the near side saddle is anybody's guess. Maybe they found that the fuel valve was too close to the gearbox shaft? It is entirely possible that they bought-in all the parts and then found exactly the issue you found. I assume that there is a filler hole in the set box? Is there any sign that there was another that is filled in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 25, 2022 Author Share Posted April 25, 2022 26 minutes ago, andypugh said: I assume that there is a filler hole in the set box? Is there any sign that there was another that is filled in? Sadly all the original timber is long gone. These two photos from 1977 would suggest that the tank was originally set over to the off side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 26, 2022 Author Share Posted May 26, 2022 Oh how time flies! This coming weekend (28th - 29th May is the first "Woolpit Steam" since 2019. I've almost forgotten how/what to do. Fortunately, I have my brothers to remind me, which they do, at every conceivable moment... But it hasn't been all work, Jack (me) found time to play: Used my shiny new 1/2" tube benders to make the last of the petrol pipes, between the tank and the fuel filter. Warning! Please don't travel to Suffolk hoping to see the Karrier; it's staying home in the shed. But we are exhibiting the Leyland workshop... Doc. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 24, 2022 Author Share Posted July 24, 2022 Bright blue skies in sunny Suffolk today; I've spent a good portion of the day in the workshop under artificial light. I dismantled my motley assortment of priming cups, keeping the parts separate, just to be on the safe side. Next I prepared a long length of brass threaded 1/4"BSP parallel and drilled and tapped up the middle 5/16" Whitworth. The taps were turned down and threaded to suit before being screwed into the end of the threaded rod (with Loctite) and sawn off. The valves were returned to the lathe for the new threaded ends to be faced off square before being reassembled. They are not all four identical, but they are pretty close. Finally the priming taps were fitted to the cylinders. Another job off the list. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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