LarryH57 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 What type of vehicle is that in the background behind these three German POWs captured at Cassino? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtskull Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Panzer bridgelayer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryH57 Posted June 8, 2017 Author Share Posted June 8, 2017 I did a bit more digging and I think it is a Valentine Bridge Layer, without the bridge on top or with the bridge in bits after it has been knocked out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarland Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Given the picture has been taken focussing on the POW's the background is a bit out of focus.... I would think it probably is a Valentine.... The thing that looks like a telegraph pole does look like a part of the bridge launching mechansim. The bridge has gone off the back of the hull along with the roller mechanism that the bridge rotates from after it touches down infront of the hull during launching... https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi0zeXrza7UAhXBnRoKHXJSB5QQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fww2today.com%2F9th-march-1943-exercise-spartan-tests-d-day-forces-in-britain&psig=AFQjCNHIGWoIF8iMnpSRp2_X-w48a2ZW8g&ust=1497022867852662 https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj7ks2Vzq7UAhVBrRoKHf6VALEQjRwIBw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fcommons.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFile%3AValentine_Bridgelayer_pic3.JPG&psig=AFQjCNHIGWoIF8iMnpSRp2_X-w48a2ZW8g&ust=1497022867852662 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtskull Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 (edited) There are points of similarity with a Valentine but the two arms attached to the hull either side of the long pole don't match anything on any photo of a Valentine bridgelayer that I can find. I thought maybe Covenanter as in the photo below but the same applies. I'm sure somebody on this forum will solve the mystery, though. Edited June 10, 2017 by mtskull Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Grundy Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Larry What is the source of the photograph ? Is it IWM ? If so what is its reference number ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtskull Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Having now read a bit more about the battle of Cassino, it would appear that there is little else it could be but a Valentine. I'll get my coat.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryH57 Posted June 11, 2017 Author Share Posted June 11, 2017 Bob, I cannot recall where this photo comes from, as I often trawl the net for one thing then find something else interesting and save it for later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtskull Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 (edited) Puzzled and searched online for photos for ages before it hit me: I thought we were looking at the front but that's actually the rear of the bridgelayer visible in the photo. Suddenly everything is consistent with it being a Valentine. Apologies for doubting those who twigged before I did.... Edited June 12, 2017 by mtskull Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john1950 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 Its part of the journey. Good research Great pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryH57 Posted June 13, 2017 Author Share Posted June 13, 2017 (edited) Strange as it seems, when I uploaded the colour photo above of the three POWs, I thought I knew that guy on the right from somewhere, the one who is possibly wearing a US Army or British Army shirt. So I had a trawl through some 300 IWM photos I have had for about 40 years and found this photo. As you can see they are Luftwaffe but I'm not sure they are Paras but the relief at being away from the fighting is clear to see! Sadly the British soldiers in the front, despite their half smiles, show a sense of apprehension. They still have another year of fighting to go before they can truly relax! Note the Jeep has two different tyres on the front and bashed fender and lights and no pioneer tools.The canvas covering the windscreen looks to be Italian or German in origin. Edited June 13, 2017 by LarryH57 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarland Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 There are points of similarity with a Valentine but the two arms attached to the hull either side of the long pole don't match anything on any photo of a Valentine bridgelayer that I can find. I thought maybe Covenanter as in the photo below but the same applies. I'm sure somebody on this forum will solve the mystery, though. I have to admit I hadn't looked too closely at the above photo Only having read the rest of the page I found it on I realised my mistake getting my Covenanter and Valentines mixed up. Also in the initial POW photo we're looking at the rear of the vehicle with the bridge and launching mechanism having collapsed forward of the hull front (furthest from the camera) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10FM68 Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Strange as it seems, when I uploaded the colour photo above of the three POWs, I thought I knew that guy on the right from somewhere, the one who is possibly wearing a US Army or British Army shirt. So I had a trawl through some 300 IWM photos I have had for about 40 years and found this photo. As you can see they are Luftwaffe but I'm not sure they are Paras but the relief at being away from the fighting is clear to see! Sadly the British soldiers in the front, despite their half smiles, show a sense of apprehension. They still have another year of fighting to go before they can truly relax! Note the Jeep has two different tyres on the front and bashed fender and lights and no pioneer tools.The canvas covering the windscreen looks to be Italian or German in origin. [ATTACH]126732[/ATTACH] Do you know any more about the jeep crew? A closer look suggests the passenger may be Indian, quite likely in that theatre and he is with a probable Brit who has no visible badges of rank, but, possibly the single ribbon of an MC. He is also wearing a shirt with a collar. And age? He may be a WO or officer, perhaps - if from an Indian unit, would that make him someone from Bn/Regt HQ - QM, RQMS, someone like that. The absence of tin hats, webbing and weapons, suggest thy are a bit closer to the rear at this stage than when the PW were taken. And I think there are at least three different tyres! No surprise, matching tyres in those days wasn't the priority it has become since! Sad - makes showing an authentic jeep at a show much more difficult! Sidelights aren't quite up to MOT standards either! 10 68 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryH57 Posted June 13, 2017 Author Share Posted June 13, 2017 (edited) Sadly there is no clue as to the unit to which this Jeep belonged as the caption said near Cassino and focused on the three POWs. So it is hard to know if there is an Indian Army connection. Having said that I have seen troops so dirty on exercise they could be mistaken for anyone! BTW - I just uploaded a better photo as a Jpeg rather than PDF Edited June 13, 2017 by LarryH57 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtskull Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Strange as it seems, when I uploaded the colour photo above of the three POWs, I thought I knew that guy on the right from somewhere, the one who is possibly wearing a US Army or British Army shirt. So I had a trawl through some 300 IWM photos I have had for about 40 years and found this photo. Beyond all reasonable doubt those are the same 3 POW's; what a brilliant piece of observation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fesm_ndt Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 LarryWhat is the source of the photograph ? Is it IWM ? If so what is its reference number ? http://ww2today.com/9th-march-1943-exercise-spartan-tests-d-day-forces-in-britain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vintage Wargaming Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 This photo is from a Vickers Elswick works photo album Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryH57 Posted June 20, 2017 Author Share Posted June 20, 2017 The Jeep and POWs photo is IWM and reference NA15001 but hardly any of the series are online yet. As for the colour photo at a guess I'd say Life Magazine but I have no recollection of where it was on the web. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtskull Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 (edited) The colour photo is from the Imperial War Museum collection. The IWM reference is TR1797. http://media.iwm.org.uk/ciim5/32/302/large_000000.jpg Edited June 20, 2017 by mtskull Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtskull Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Because I just can't leave these things alone, I have been searching Google Street View and I believe that the photo was taken in the approximate vicinity of the Church of St Antonio, on what is now Corso della Repubblica. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john1950 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 How things have changed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10FM68 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Because I just can't leave these things alone, I have been searching Google Street View and I believe that the photo was taken in the approximate vicinity of the Church of St Antonio, on what is now Corso della Repubblica. That's an impressive bit of analysis/research. And I reckon you're spot on! 10 68 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surveyor Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Agreed impressive. How did you go about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryH57 Posted June 21, 2017 Author Share Posted June 21, 2017 Yes very impressive. BTW the next photo in the sequence is this, which might may help further with the location. The IWM caption for the photo with the three POWs mentions Route 6. http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205188888 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarland Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Yes very impressive. BTW the next photo in the sequence is this, which might may help further with the location. The IWM caption for the photo with the three POWs mentions Route 6. http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205188888 Is the link working or do you have to log in? I'm getting an error message..... I can't think you're too far off in Earthview - looking at the original image (given its taken at ground level and Google cameras are vehicle mounted) I think you may still be too close - the Abbey looks a bit too clear/large (yes the original photo has the background out of focus....) Cassino town was the scene of bitter house to house fitting so no surprise it was pretty much flattened - virtually a blank sheet to redevelop from..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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