BRDM Driver Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 I assumed tank track is steel and not cast iron? It would be interesting to see if CVRT track could be modified or dressed up to look like Panzer track. There is an endless supply of CVRT track with worn out pads... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 i'm also looking into having track cast so will follow this thread with even more interest. i had considered use old track melted down to make the new, that way you know you're getting the right manganese steel. there's a foundry near me that i've got in mind for doing the casting. you could even do it yourself if you had the time and inclination Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Herbert Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 CVRT track has a single guide horn running between double road wheels. Pz2 track has double horns with a single wheel running between them. Not really convertible. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRDM Driver Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, David Herbert said: CVRT track has a single guide horn running between double road wheels. Pz2 track has double horns with a single wheel running between them. Not really convertible. David Yes, I just looked at the pics and can see what you mean, but having seen what Jon can do..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatchFuzee Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 17 hours ago, johann morris said: shame that so much of the British casting industry has gone. Some are still working. http://www.castmetalsfederation.com/cmf-members/foundry-search Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highland_laddie Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 As one who is amazed at the quality of this project I have been left wondering how it can be completed without resorting to bank robbery to fund it. I remembered that there was the really nice reproduction late war Lynx in America. Does anyone know whether the track on that was the same as the earlier Panzer 2. If it was is there any benefit in contacting them to see how they addressed the manufacture of track and some of the other challenges that are to come? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11th Armoured Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 9 hours ago, Highland_laddie said: As one who is amazed at the quality of this project I have been left wondering how it can be completed without resorting to bank robbery to fund it. I remembered that there was the really nice reproduction late war Lynx in America. Does anyone know whether the track on that was the same as the earlier Panzer 2. If it was is there any benefit in contacting them to see how they addressed the manufacture of track and some of the other challenges that are to come? The track of the earlier Pz. IIs is quite a bit different from that of the Luchs unfortunately (the latter used interlaced road wheels, which resulted in wider track to begin with). These are 1:35 scale model tracks, but they show the differences fairly clearly:Pz. IILuchs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mogmaner Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Could the model track links be up scaled then 3d printed to form a casting pattern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johann morris Posted December 21, 2018 Author Share Posted December 21, 2018 Match, Thanks for the link, after Christmas I will make some phone calls. Highland Laddie, I assume that you are Scottish, well the scots are renowned for being, lets say prudent with their money, so am I, in fact I haven't got any. I am not going to spend a fortune on it, that's the whole point of the exercise. My time costs me nothing, the most expensive item so far is the steering box and I will do my best to ensure that I stick to that principle. I have a track link, a little bent but straight ones are readily available. Thanks for the ideas so far my minds racing I keep coming up with ideas then finding reasons why I can't use them. Having read the black knight series of very good books, on the development of several ww2 tanks, I see that every manufacturing option was explored, including malleable cast iron and fabricated links and its the fabricated option that keeps me awake. They didn't last long, I will have to find the information again, but they did last and if they are fabricated in the correct way, with enough strength built in.... We are not talking about a 30 ton monster, and we are not talking about racing around at 30mph, 5mph would be fast enough time to sleep on it again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatchFuzee Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 If, you are considering cast iron, there is the foundry at Blists Hill Victorian Town:- https://www.ironbridge.org.uk/explore/blists-hill-victorian-town/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zundapp Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 (edited) Cast iron is a bad idea, it is too brittle. Most track links for AFVs are a Manganese Steel Alloy. China would be a good source. I know that some have already been cast there. A friend of mine lives in Hong Kong, he did search for suitable foundries a few years ago, and found at least one. (we were thinking about a Pz 38T project). I will ask him if he has details. About cast Iron: If memory serves me correct, the Saumur PzKpfw II that the Cadmans restored had new made cast iron tracks. The story I heard goes that when a turn was made in cold weather the tracks broke. Edited December 27, 2018 by zundapp Bad reply format Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earlymb Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Axis Track Services just had new track links cast for the Panther they are restoring so it is possible to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdmcm Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 I have heard the steel in tracks referred to as "Hadfield Steel" Evidently its composition is such that it work hardens, The fellows that cast new Tiger 1 links in Russia have used the same steel, 10-14% manganese... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highland_laddie Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 On 12/21/2018 at 9:28 AM, 11th Armoured said: The track of the earlier Pz. IIs is quite a bit different from that of the Luchs unfortunately (the latter used interlaced road wheels, which resulted in wider track to begin with). These are 1:35 scale model tracks, but they show the differences fairly clearly: Hi 11th Armoured, Thanks for the info and the 'links' - yes pun intended 😀 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highland_laddie Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 On 12/21/2018 at 10:46 AM, johann morris said: I assume that you are Scottish, well the scots are renowned for being, lets say prudent with their money, so am I, in fact I haven't got any. I am not going to spend a fortune on it, that's the whole point of the exercise. My time costs me nothing, the most expensive item so far is the steering box and I will do my best to ensure that I stick to that principle. Hmmm, I think I would have at least another generation to go before the family is considered Scottish 😀 Although I am a celt of the dragon supporting kind 😉 Besides being impressed with the sheer engineering skill involved in your project I have also been 'gobsmacked' at times with the creativity involved in doing what you do on such a shoe string budget. That may be why you have so many responses looking at the possible options for track to try and find an option that can make this happen. If it gets to it I would contribute to a 'Go Fund Me' for the track. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draganm Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 One bright spot is they're all the same, the big cats I believe had male-female links so the cost would automatically go up this one looks to be in better shape that the one you have , comes with pin too , 78 pounds delivered. https://www.ebay.com/itm/WW2-GERMAN-Pz-Kpfw-II-TRACK-LINK-Wermacht/273612189341?hash=item3fb48eae9d:g:9dwAAOSwxxVb7ZmY:rk:39:pf:0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johann morris Posted December 25, 2018 Author Share Posted December 25, 2018 Happy Christmas to all!!!!! Thanks for the ideas, reply's, in the end they will be cast steel, whether new or original I don't know, where from, I have no idea but that's for next year. Thanks for the idea and offer Highland Laddie but I must confess, I have never understood the concept, maybe I am old fashioned or stupid. The project will, I am determined, get finished, as long as I don't suffer a serious bout of death. When? when it does, I am in no hurry. Every little component or assembly takes time, especially as there are no drawings. Part of the problem is determining how an assembly actually works so that it can be replicated and as I don't have the opportunity of stripping these assemblies down or x ray eyes, it takes some time to construct something that will actually work and that's before I start making the assembly. Sometimes I find a picture / drawing, in my dreams. Have a good one, Jon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johann morris Posted December 27, 2018 Author Share Posted December 27, 2018 (edited) I Have to confess, being the sad individual I am, I enjoy reading technical books and I have especially enjoyed the series by P.M.Knight. Anyway I digress, This is just for reference, I had to skip through the four books I have to find it, I knew which ever book I started with, it would be in the last one. Page 137 in his A15 Cruiser book. Taken from field trial report FT911 14th August 1943. "The TD507 Malleable cast iron (MCI) tracks achieved their expected average life of 1500" (miles). I not suggesting anything, just that they had a degree of success with that grade of cast iron and the steel tracks only seem to have lasted for the same mileage. Jon Edited December 27, 2018 by johann morris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatchFuzee Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 43 minutes ago, johann morris said: "The TD507 Malleable cast iron (MCI) tracks achieved their expected average life of 1500" (miles). Would that have been on a mixture of hard and soft surfaces? 1500 miles is a lot of driving at shows so the tracks could last as long as the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johann morris Posted December 27, 2018 Author Share Posted December 27, 2018 The report states that for the first 900 miles the ground was very wet and heavy and there after dry and dusty. The amazing part is that the engines only lasted for an average of 1734 miles. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowfat Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 In comparison the early T34 Engines and transmissions Lasted a few hundred miles with steel manganese tracks by the way, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johann morris Posted December 28, 2018 Author Share Posted December 28, 2018 The two engines, Russian and British, failed for the same reason, lack of adequate air filtration. In both cases it would appear it was either because the filtration wasn't good enough, the connection pipes weren't long enough or because of the incorrect use and adjustment of the pipe connection retainers, they weren't doing the jubilee clips up properly. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whittingham warrior Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 The best way to solve the problem is visit a foundry and ask the experts. Modern SG cast irons are much better than the early CI. the can bend and twist whilst not snapping. The same goes for the casting design ask at the foundry, they will also put you in touch with pattern makers. Be prepared to drill out the castings for the track pins, it can be done, I've done it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johann morris Posted February 15, 2019 Author Share Posted February 15, 2019 Evening All, I have been itching to get on with the Panzer but kept finding other things to do, so today at last some progress, I made the two idler wheel shafts. Jon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Amazing project. Looking forward to seeing it in the flesh one day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.