WW1 Dennis truck find

[Old Bill]

The throttle is a barrel type, just a glorified plug-cock in fact!

 

Steve

[The Bedford Boys]

Interesting newspaper you have there.... Looking for a new girlfriend? :cool2:

Edited July 15, 2010 by The Bedford Boys
I slept in boss.... Honestly

[Great War truck]

Of course. Thats how we found the carb. "Single 45 year old guy looking for girl with Claudel Hobson carb - GSOH".

[Minesweeper]

Of course. Thats how we found the carb. "Single 45 year old guy looking for girl with Claudel Hobson carb - GSOH".

 

Wonderful!

 

Tony

[Old Bill]

Of course. Thats how we found the carb. "Single 45 year old guy looking for girl with Claudel Hobson carb - GSOH".

 

Now you're taking the mick! Actually a carb is not a requirement. What I really want is a five spoke 19" steering wheel! :-D

[N.O.S.]

Now you're taking the mick! Actually a carb is not a requirement. What I really want is a five spoke 19" steering wheel! :-D

 

Why not try something along the lines of:

 

Guy answering to 'Dennis' seeks companion with GSOD (direction) to keep him headed up the right street - waist measurement of 59.7" would be ideal but hey, I'll take anything I can grab with 5 spokes!

[Gordon_M]

You'll spend a pile of money casting one and it'll be perfect.

 

Then you'll take the truck to a show and a 95-year-old local will come up and say; " I've got two of those hanging up at home you can have if you want, but they're not as nice as that one"

 

Post the pic of the original again just to remind us what we are watching for?

 

Gordon

[Old Bill]

That will undoubtably happen. I have seen it before!

 

Here is a pic. It is rather poor but we were in a windowless building at twilight time and no torch. It was a case of point the camera and hope! It is 19" OD.

 

I have had a template for it laser cut in steel to give the pattern some strength. I now need to build up the thickness in MDF to get the shape. The finger marks are going to be the tricky bit but we will manage.

[Gordon_M]

Hmm, thinking aloud here.

 

If you are going for a cast hub and a laser-cut rim, why not get the rim laser-cut at full thickness including the finger-scallops, and then just turn it down outside and inside to give the desired profile ?

 

Too heavy in steel for the rim though, any sort of Aluminium alloy they can laser cut at 1" thick, or maybe water-jet cut?

 

If I see an original it's yours

[N.O.S.]

That original one looks like the rim is coated with a rubber / plastic looking / thick enamel type of material, same as much later wheels. I've had several wheels re-coated with a very thick black powder coating paint finish - looks very effective and is durable.

 

Any idea what the original coating material would have been?

[Sean N]

There are companies around who will rebuild / remake steering wheels, including doing the rims correctly etc. - worth a look round the internet?

[Stormin]

Hmm, thinking aloud here.

 

If you are going for a cast hub and a laser-cut rim, why not get the rim laser-cut at full thickness including the finger-scallops, and then just turn it down outside and inside to give the desired profile ?

 

Too heavy in steel for the rim though, any sort of Aluminium alloy they can laser cut at 1" thick, or maybe water-jet cut?

 

If I see an original it's yours

 

I think he's going for a fully cast one piece wheel, just using the laser cut centre to help form the pattern.

 

Does look rather like a handwheel as used on large penstocks or valves in waterworks though.

[Asciidv]

The Dennis steering wheels were coated in black bakelite which was the first thermo-setting phenolic resin 'plastic' ever produced in 1907. The simplest way to produce this wheel is just to CNC machine it from plate. I just cannot remember how planar they are, but quite possibly you could take it out of 2" plate. On the early Dennis wheels the spokes and hub are separate from the rim. Were you going to extend to this level of originality or just go for a one piece casting?

Edited July 16, 2010 by Asciidv

[Tony B]

PM sent, a long shot but they may just have something.

[Old Bill]

Some good thoughts there. Thanks Chaps.

 

Unfortunately for us, the finger grips are 45° around towards the inside so a fully laser cut/water jet/wire eroded profile just wouldn't work. Well, a posh 3d wire eroder might but there is a lot of cutting to do at some cost as well as the finish machining to produce the 3-d shape.

 

To CNC mill it from the solid would be a quite acceptable solution but I dread to think what the blank might cost. The wheel is quite dished so a 2" thickness may not be enough. The rim is 1 1/2" diameter in section. If we had our own mill and could write our own programme, then it would be a possibility.

 

Our aim, always, is to do as much as we can ourselves so the current plan is for me to make a pattern and to cast the whole thing in one piece in aluminium. We don't have the gear to roll the correct steel tube for the rim but I think that the aluminium will be OK, once it is disguised with the black phenolic resin coating. I intend that the pattern will be of MDF glued to a central steel core with the spokes bent to the correct angle. (I can't believe that I had that cut three years ago!). Father has presented me with a rotary table so I can use that to get the finger grips correctly positioned and then cut them out by hand. The real time and care there will be in the marking out but as our time is free then that will be fine. Cost wise, this job could run away with us if we are not careful. Even the steel blank was £45- and I can see the casting being around the £50- mark.

 

I have just been sent a potential lead so all of this may come to nothing.

 

Fingers crossed!

 

Steve

[Asciidv]

Steve, I hope you don't find a wheel! - for I think we would all like to see you make one. Quite casually you say that you will dish your steel template. Surely doesn't an awful lot of metal have to stretch to make it dish. Would it not be easier to cut the rim off, bend up the spokes and then weld a new one (smaller I.D.) back on?

 

 

Barry.

[Old Bill]

I don't think dishing it will be too difficult as the spokes are all straight. I just plan to hold the rim of my steel profile in the vice and push each spoke in until it looks about right. I will then clamp the spoke to the edge of the bench and bend the centre part out again until it is parallel with the rim. The spokes are not joined at the centre so the cuts will simply open out. I can then glue the MDF on and dress it to shape as the final pattern.

 

At least, that is the theory!

 

Steve

[Great War truck]

With the first engine "start-up" getting ever closer, we have bought the oil and lubricants for it.

 

The Dennis Engine, Gearbox and Back Axle all have quite large capacities and of course on this occasion, we have to fill them from empty!

 

 

I would tell you how much this lot cost, but it is to painful.

Edited July 18, 2010 by Great War truck

[Asciidv]

I don't think dishing it will be too difficult as the spokes are all straight. I just plan to hold the rim of my steel profile in the vice and push each spoke in until it looks about right. I will then clamp the spoke to the edge of the bench and bend the centre part out again until it is parallel with the rim. The spokes are not joined at the centre so the cuts will simply open out. I can then glue the MDF on and dress it to shape as the final pattern.

 

At least, that is the theory!

 

Steve

 

Steve, I didn't see the black radial lines in the centre as cuts, I thought they were just felt tip pen marks. Thinking ahead helps so much!

 

Barry.

[abn deuce]

How many gallons of lubricants etc are going to be required to fill all but the fuel tank ?

[Old Bill]

Good question! I think that the back axle will hold around two gallons and the gearbox about three. According to the manual, the sump has a capacity of five gallons. I hope we don't have to change it very often!

 

Steve

[abn deuce]

Thanks Ole bill quite a bit of fluid ! Will the new stuff be any where near as thick as the old or was the old extra thick due mostly to its age and not just due to what was originally spec. in the cases?

[Old Bill]

I must admit that I don't know although I think that what was removed was thick and nasty through age and use. The manual says such things as 'a good quality engine oil' which is not very illuminating. However, the FWD manual specifies the viscosity and exactly how to measure it although I haven't tried checking myself. I just rang Morriss's and the chap there said 'let me look in the book'! We have always found them extremely helpful and the oil turned up within 48 hours. Great service.

 

Steve

[Degsy]

Steve, PM sent.

[Roy Larkin]

I must admit that I don't know although I think that what was removed was thick and nasty through age and use. The manual says such things as 'a good quality engine oil' which is not very illuminating. However, the FWD manual specifies the viscosity and exactly how to measure it although I haven't tried checking myself.

 

Steve

 

Whatever the manual says about 'good quality' or specifying the viscosity, it has to be remembered that the 'quality' was determined by the standards of the day, and oil or petrol was nothing like what we expect today or even 50 years ago. I would think that even the cheapest nastiest oil you can find today is still a hundred times better than what was available nearly 100 years ago. There are plenty of instances where engine bearing failure during WW1 was attributed to poor quality thin oil. War Office specifications demanded that engine sumps were of sufficient capacity to allow 200 miles of fully loaded running, which says something about either the engines capacity to retain oil or the quality of the oil itself.

 

Changing the subject: has the Dennis got a water cooler for the transmission brake? I don't recall ever seeing one on a preserved lorry.