WW1 Dennis truck find

[Great War truck]

Just for a change - a bit of simple and primitive Blacksmithing!

 

It is getting near the time to fix the Exhaust Pipe on. We were fortunate that on one of the many chassis that we acquired over the years, there was still the remains of the centre exhaust pipe bracket on one - too far gone to use again but good enough to use as a pattern for a new one. A piece of 30 x 5mm black steel was used for the new bracket and cut over length so that there was enough "spare" left to make it easy to handle. We know from previous experience that the easiest way to bend a bit of steel like that is to get it red hot and then bend it around a suitable former. It was brought to red heat outside the workshop on a small brazing hearth - a short length of scaffolding pole - the same diameter as the exhaust pipe had previously been placed in the vice - and when the steel was "red", it was picked up by the extreme ends in gloved hands, rushed into the workshop and wrapped around the scaffolding pole before it cooled! In this state, it is as easy to bend as putty.

 

 

 

 

[Great War truck]

Apart from having to be bent around the scaffolding pipe, the bracket also has to be "cranked". The same method to bend it was used again - a piece of pipe was put into the new "O" on the end - the embryo bracket was again heated to "red" where the crank had to be - rushed into the vice before it cooled and bent to the correct angle. The pipe in the "O" was to hold to bend it - and also to ensure that the "O" did not go out of shape.

 

The two holes to take the bolts to hold it to the chassis were then drilled - these also automatically tighten up on the pipe so that the pipe is held firmly.

 

The bracket was then cut to length and split into two and then cleaned up.

 

 

 

 

 

[Old Bill]

Very very nice indeed - I presume that it works both as a simple and as compound in the protypical way?

 

Thanks for the comment. No, it is just a simple expansion two cylinder engine. I did look at installing the centre cylinder (I didn't build the whole engine) but it just isn't on without a total chassis rebuild. It goes well though and I can move fifteen people on dry rails quite happily.

 

It was building model steam engines that gave us the skills to tackle this lorry!

 

Steve

[Great War truck]

Steve was down in Devon over the weekend to take the Autocar into Honiton in support of "Honiton Armed Forces Day".

 

He took the opportunity whilst he was down to finally fit the Water Pump to the engine.

 

 

 

 

[Gordon_M]

Very nice, as usual, I've been missing the Dennis updates but then I've been in the garage working too.

 

If you happen to have won the lottery recently and are looking for another American challenge;

 

http://ww2dodge.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6953

 

Two WW1 Republic trucks in North Carolina looking for a home

 

Gordon

[Great War truck]

With everyone in Devon over the weekend, it was chance to start catching up with one or two outstanding jobs.

 

Regular followers of this restoration may remember that after we fitted the Universal Coupling, a disparity was apparent in the height of the engine and the gearbox. The first photo (first fitting) shows a "slope" between those two - where ideally, they should be in line.

 

 

Raising blocks, 1/4" thick had to be inserted under the engine feet to bring the two items into line and the other two photos show how this was corrected.

 

 

[Great War truck]

The big ball joint on the prop shaft is lubricated "remotely" from an Oil Filler located on the outside of the off-side shassis member and is connected to the ball joint by a pipe.

 

We were fortunate that an oil filler remained on one of several chassis' that we acquired, but we were puzzled when we first looked at it and before we were very far into the restoration as the "filler" had a spacer inserted between itself and the chassis to effectively lower it - and a corresponding extension was fitted to the filler hole to return it to what appeared to be the original intended height. It was only when we came to fit the brake rods that it was apparent why this had been done as the brake rod wanted to run through the exact intended position of the filler without the spacer there!

 

Part of the original bronze union remained in the filler casting, and we were therefore obliged to make a corresponding mounting to fit into the ball joint, together with nuts and nipples for both ends of the pipe that would join them.

 

 

 

[Great War truck]

These pictures show tha nuts and nipples made up - together with the one original bronze part and the other one made up to suit the ball joint. Threads were either 3/8" BSP or 7/8" BSF.

 

Each assembly screwed for a trial fit into their eventual homes before the pipe was attached.

 

 

 

 

[Great War truck]

Copper pipe silver-soldered to the nipples and final assembly installed.

 

 

 

 

[Gordon_M]

I'm glad to see more progress and more photos, as always.

 

A word about the paint though. I assume the colour is right, with your usual attention to detail, but should the surface of the paint be that hard, flat, and shiny?

 

It looks like modern paint does on a lot of old components and vehicles, too deep, or is it just the effects of close-up photography and flash?

 

Gordon

[Minesweeper]

When we first started the restoration of the lorry, we ordered sufficient paint from Masons - all in one litre tins to see the project right through. The original correct colour had previously been exactly identified on the Thornycroft lorry now at Duxford when it was stripped right back by a professional restorer - and a "flat" paint to that specification was ordered by us for the Dennis. The paint was received here in Devon but it was sometime after we received it that the first tin was actually opened and we found then that although we had specified "flat", it was somewhat glossier than we wanted. Too late to do anything about it after we had had it for so long. And paint is not cheap!

 

So we opted to use that paint on the chassis, engine and other under parts not readily visible - and then ordered a completely new lot of "flat" paint from another supplier - Masons having gone out of business, we understand. Fortunately, the new paint is a wonderful colour match with the first lot and that has already been used on the scuttle and on other parts that will be clearly visible. We shall continue to use the original paint where it will not be seen and the correct flat paint on the bodywork and as we have already done on the scuttle.

 

All a bit annoying!

 

Tony

[Sean N]

Tony, could you not just get some more matting agent for the original paint?

[Tony B]

Though a hard gloss finish on the mucky hard to reach bits has its advantages.

[Richard Farrant]

There is a distinct advantage on a long term project like this where you are painting as you go, in that, if it was a matt paint finish, it would no doubt be marred by oil and grease absorbtion as work proceeded, at least with gloss it can be cleaned down on completion, without marking the paint.

 

Full marks to you all on the Dennis, it is great to see this restoration unfold.

[Great War truck]

Thanks for your positive comments. It is great to be able to show the whole restoration process rather than just tuck the photos away in an album. As we go along we are all learning a great deal and many thanks for all of your comments and suggestions.

 

A little while back, we realised that there was a potential foul condition between the front axle and the front edge of the sump, should the lorry hit a severe bump at speed. This could wreck the sump so we felt that we really had to do something about it. The solution was to move the axle forward on its springs by 3/4" to clear the sump by a nominal 1/2". This makes the king pins lean back slightly more and requires the drag link to be extended but we felt that the increased self-centring effect would be OK.

 

 

First step was to mark a line on the spring to show where we wanted the axle to sit. Then we undid the clamping bolts and tried to spread the leaves like a pack of cards by thumping the ends of each.

 

 

 

 

This was unsuccessful as we soon remembered that the leaves are interlocked by having a dimple pressed into each.

 

 

The only way around this was to cut a new dimple in the top leaf using a Dremel pencil grinder and also in the spring seat. Once these were done, the springs were reassembled and bolted up against the marked lines. The result has been successful and we now have our clearance. It remains only to touch up the paint which has, unfortunately, taken a bit of a battering.

[Great War truck]

 

 

 

 

 

[Minesweeper]

Thank you, Sean, Tony and Richard for your thoughts and comments about the paint! All very helpful and reassuring!

 

We have been at this now for about eight years and it is amazing to think that all of those original tins of paint have been on the shelf for that length of time and that we started painting all that time ago! We purposely ordered it in one litre tins so that most of the paint would be left in unopened tins over the anticipated long re-building period and would not be spoiled if left in partially-used bigger tins for a great length of time.

 

The early painting (for instance - on the chassis) has already weathered and has dulled down - and yes, we did think that it would not be a bad idea to use the "gloss" on things like the engine where the gloss would be more repellant to oil and grease. We are just very fortunate that the two lots of paint match up so well.

 

The scuttle and the bonnet are painted with the "flat" paint and they look fine. If my calculations are correct, we have ample of that stuff left to paint the bodywork when we have made it.

 

Tony

[Tony B]

Tony? Since when do you need reassurance? I'm green with envy at the work you have done.

Love to see and ride in her one day.:flowers:

[Great War truck]

The exhaust pipe being fitted:

 

 

 

 

 

The final bits of machining to the Exhaust system completed today - and it all now awaits final assembly.

 

 

 

 

The "elbow" fits onto the front of the silencer - and the exhaust pipe has to be connected to it. There was not enough metal in the "elbow" to take the outside diameter of the pipe so a hollow plug has been machined up which fit into the pipe and into the elbow. It has not been pushed right into the pipe as it would be difficult to get it out at this stage. The three items will be either riveted or screwed together.

 

The Exhaust should be on the lorry and completed before the week is over.

[Asciidv]

Tony,

 

Just a couple of queries from the last series of pictures. I cannot remember if you said that you had the front springs made. Certainly by looking at the surface finish on the top leaf they look brand new. From the picture of the spring disassembled it seems it was built up without any grease between the faces. Do you have any view on this? I don't think modern springs are greased in this way but I believe it was standard practice in the 'old days'.

 

What material did you use for the exhaust gaskets? Is it an asbestos substitute or the real thing? I have had a go at making copper/asbestos/copper sandwich gaskets using 4 thou copper sheet and with a lot of time and care in folding the copper edges over they can be quite respectable.

 

However for any other HMVF restorer needing unobtainable gaskets (especially cylinder head) I can unreservedly recommend this gentlemen for the most perfect copper asbestos gaskets you will ever see, made to your pattern.

 

Johnson Gaskets 2 Verity Street East Bierley Bradford West Yorkshire U.K.. BD4 6PN Tel: 01274 682298

Edited July 8, 2010 by Asciidv

[Tony B]

Whatever happned to old skills? One of the first thing Howard taught me was to make gaskets from brown paper. Amazing what brown paper will put up with. As for Asbestos, having seen the effect of the stuff on a late much missed friend, I don't want to know!

[Old Bill]

Tony,

 

From the picture of the spring disassembled it seems it was built up without any grease between the faces. Do you have any view on this? I don't think modern springs are greased in this way but I believe it was standard practice in the 'old days'.

 

What material did you use for the exhaust gaskets? Is it an asbestos substitute or the real thing? I have had a go at making copper/asbestos/copper sandwich gaskets using 4 thou copper sheet and with a lot of time and care in folding the copper edges over they can be quite respectable.

 

 

 

Hi Barry.

 

Yes, the front springs are new, copied from the remains of an original. Since we had them made, a decent original pair have turned up. Such is the way of this game.

 

They were not assembled with grease. I have no personal experience of greased springs but one of the fire engine crew at the Royal College of Science told me that they had tried greasing Jezebel's springs and that it had made her much more difficult to drive. Grease isn't mentioned in the manual so we have left them dry.

 

The exhaust gasket is some modern material supplied as 'exhaust manifold gasket' by a company which provides spares for '50s American cars. It is like a very thick cardboard but is very smooth in texture. We will have a go with it and see how it works out as it is nice to handle and an easy solution for specials. On the FWD, I have made up some copper covered gaskets to see if we can stop the rear one blowing out. I seem to replace that one every year and it is a real pain. Hopefully, the copper will hold it together. We shall see.

 

Thanks for the tip off for a specialist gasket supplier. It is always good to have a personal recommendation.

 

Steve :thumbsup:

[Stormin]

Regarding the greasing of springs my opinion would be to leave them dry for the time being and see how the vehicle rides when it's complete. The interleaf friction may be required in the absence of dampers and may help stiffen the spring and keep the axle away from that vulnerable sump.

It's always easier to add a little grease or oil to the leaves afterwards if it feels a little harsh on the ride. If the vehicle is to get little use when restored the grease or oil may help to preserve the suppleness of the ride.

I was always amazed at how differently my old Land Rover drove on the way home from a trial or playday. Having had a good workout and loosening on the springs the roll on some of the corners was sometimes surprising.

[Tony B]

I've heard the argument about greasing springs over the years. Everything from the springs will rot if you do/don't, to it being a cause of F***ing in church. Yet I can't recall ever seeing in a manual instructions to grease the leaves.

[Degsy]

I've heard the argument about greasing springs over the years. Everything from the springs will rot if you do/don't, to it being a cause of F***ing in church. Yet I can't recall ever seeing in a manual instructions to grease the leaves.

 

So what's your recommendation?........... Brown paper between the leaves?