Engine parts colour on Austin Champ

[simondema]

Hi

I have noticed in a number of pictures that some items on the B40 engine do not appear to be painted in the usual Sky Blue, but in black, such as starter motor, generator and sometime ignition junction box.

Is this the correct method, or was this when the vehicle left the factory and then once Base Overhaul had occurred, all engine components were sprayed Sky Blue?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

Simon

[fv1609]

I think you are correct Simon the earlier the literature be it UHB or EMER on B Series engines the more likely they are to be black & then with overhaul, repair or preservation the Sky Blue creeps in.

[ruxy]

If you are restoring to replicate the example of one of the 400 qty. Champ FV.1800 sold to Australian forces , then I doubt if a base overhaul (Oz) would ever see the colour BS Sky Blue.

 

If it is to pukka restore to British UK forces , then the decision are you to assume original factory engine ? or proper authentic Base overhaul / preserved unit fit ??

[wally dugan]

AS far as l know all the CHAMPS delivered to the AUSTRALIAIN ARMY had engines built by AUSTIN one of the ways to tell is these had five digit engine numbers were as rolls Royce engines had four also the rolls had a aluminium cylinder head so l think you may find that the champs were delivered with sky blue engines from the factory and not black l have only ever worked on one ROLLS built B 40 engine painted black and that was in a 81 inch wheel base landrover

[ruxy]

I understand that from Mk. 5A onwards engines , they had a cast iron head (+ other changes that were final standardized) and were manufactured by BOTH Rolls Royce and Austin , by far the majority were Austin. I also understand that they were painted by Sky Blue (it was a FVRDE truck that Austin were contracted to construct) , however all the auxiliaries were not fully overpainted , that was a BASE overall. Or it was a preserved engine crated cartridge (every truck was supplied with a spare engine). So IMHO , you paint what version you wish to represent , factory fresh or re-powered.

 

I don't know anything about the Australian Contract (and probably the UK Contracts in rivet counting detail) , because when I had mine in the late 1960's there were sfa books available. I only picked up a load of info many years after sold. Possibly to simplify Austin supplied Oz with exact same Spec. as UK , however I have my doubts ,,

 

Most photographs of factory assembly etc. IMHO are very very early , probably Pre-Pro stage.

Edited January 2, 2014 by ruxy
spelin

[Richard Farrant]

It must not be assumed that all Champs found in Australia were from their army. A man called Archie Marshall imported a heap of ex-British Army Champs along with other vehicles into the country.

The Austin built engine had pressed steel rocker and side valve chamber cover, where RR built engines had cast alloy ones.

[wally dugan]

l think l know a bit about the development of the B RANGE ENGINE and its history the attached page from a file dated December 1945 even then a replacement for the jeep was on the cards and the engine selected ln fact the replacement was given the title of car 4x4 category xv1 reading the requirements its the CHAMP to a T as to the CHAMP in service with the

AUSTRALIAN ARMY information is limited this subject has come up twice when l was involved in the books of PAT WARE and

GUS GOWER l still have copy of the ministry of supply contact ledger showing details of the CHAMP contract if l can find it

[simondema]

Thanks for the replies.

 

My Champ (1624) is a British Champ and it underwent a Base Overhaul in 1962 at Weston-super-Mare. I would therefore assume that all the engine parts would have been painted in Sky Blue.

 

Indeed Archie Marshall did bring in a huge number of Champs into Western Australia. The ones on the east coast (Victoria, Queensland and New South Wales) were brought in by a Bill Patterson from Melbourne.

 

As an aside I am trying to find out the Army insignia for the vehicle. It was based in Georgetown (RV - GEO/R/3051). From my limited knowledge I believe it might have been assigned to 6 Vehicle Group HQ.

 

Wally, you are correct about the engine numbers as most of the Australian Champs I have seen have the 5 digit engine numbers, while the RR engines only have 4 ( my engine no. is 3079 on a No1 Mk5A)

 

Will therefore paint all engine items Sky Blue unless new information comes up.

 

Simon

[wally dugan]

just googled AUSTIN MEMORIES there are pictures of the assembly line showing of AUSTIN CHAMPS it shows the engine

been dropped in looks like sky blue to me THE AUSTRALIAN ARMY ones had engine numbers from 57700 TO 58207

[fv1609]

As an aside I see in the manual for the Commer FV1601 used by the Australians that the B60 is black with just Sky Blue (I assume) for the generator & filter box.

[shaun]

Just in cases you were needing the paint code , the right colour light blue is BS101 . Most of the items overhauled by workshops were painted the blue , if it was factory fit or factory replacement it would have been the factory colour . Hope that's of help.

[wally dugan]

CLIVE FV 1601 is a AUSTIN k 9 is it not

[fv1609]

CLIVE FV 1601 is a AUSTIN k 9 is it not

 

Nope Wally normally Humber 1 Ton, but the Australian Humbers had contract plates marked Commer. Although they still got referred to as Humbers!

[Richard Farrant]

CLIVE FV 1601 is a AUSTIN k 9 is it not

 

 

Wally,

An Austin K9 is FV16001

[Richard Farrant]

As an aside I am trying to find out the Army insignia for the vehicle. It was based in Georgetown (RV - GEO/R/3051). From my limited knowledge I believe it might have been assigned to 6 Vehicle Group HQ.

 

 

 

 

Hi Simon,

Georgetown was 61 "B" Vehicle Depot in Scotland. This was the receiving depot of your Champ from Austins. It would have been stored there until issued to a unit. The "RV" number denotes Receipt Voucher.

 

cheers Richard

[wally dugan]

SORRY l will rightly stand corrected once had to sit through a ARMY film on the role of the HUMBER PIG the commentator

would keep calling it a AUSTIN Then later the there was a video made about THE ROYAL CORPS OF TRANSPORT called the

final drive and in it again they called the HUMBER PIG a AUSTIN

[ruxy]

I hope it went to Oz early , because in civvy life - boy did they rust quick . Great vehicle - the best , I would like another , missed a good chance on a minta over 20 years ago , the price was high and I was short. In retrospect I should have had it , viewing a property , opened a barn door and it was stored there, his brother's who was working in Saudia Arabia and it had to go, it was in my mind, that if I had made a bid on the place it would have been conditional LoL

 

1970's I watched one slowly dissolve to almost nothing of a body / chassis, abandoned on a local pit-heap , stripped of mechanicals. My luck was in , the FV headlamps were kicked in but the rareish fairing rims were in place - still on a Lightweight I have LoL

[rupert condick]

hi

My limited knowledge, (81" Land Rover) on the B40 engine was Rolls Royce were black,

rocker covers were marked UNF for the Austin engine,

Rolls Royce were plain and the threads were BSF,

I have seen a few black painted  engines with plain rocker covers in champs in WA

reg

Rupert