Is the MVT fit for purpose?

[GPW Rookie]

Does anybody feel that the MVT are somewhat failing in their stated aims in the furtherance our hobby for the mutual benefit of ALL members? I have been reading Windscreen for around 3 years now and have formed the opinion that there would seem to be a definite bias in favour of certain groups/areas.

 

In the current edition of Windscreen there is absolutely no mention of the Military and Flying Machines show held at Damyns Hall at the start of August. Indeed in John Carroll's article he states " unexpectedly early August was quiet while much of the population was on holiday" I find it hard to believe that somebody so senior in the MVT hasn't heard about what must be one of the bigger MVT shows, so what does he silence on the subject say?

 

I attended the Damyns Hall show and found it excellent, well run and very well attended. I also attended Wicksteed at War and I must say that as it was our National MVT show I assumed it would be something special, sadly in truth it was far from that. Needless to say there were a lot of column inches given over to the Wicksteed show in Windscreen.

 

If the MVT fail to represent, support and help all groups within their organisation than they are falling very far short of their stated aims. As our governing body they should be there for all of their members.

[arcot1751]

While not wishing to get embroiled in a slanging match against the MVT who I feel in general do a cracking job in keeping the club together I must say I too attended the Wickstead National Rally and although the site and grounds were first rate and very well run I thought being the National it would be much bigger. All in all it seemed pretty low key and not much bigger than some of the local shows we attend. I stress we enjoyed the show and would certainly go again but being the top MVT event of the year maybe I expected to much. Without the MVT we would not have the help and support we enjoy so hats off to them and maybe we should take time to reflect on if any of us could do better, I certainly couldn't !

[N.O.S.]

...... I have been reading Windscreen for around 3 years now and have formed the opinion that there would seem to be a definite bias in favour of certain groups/areas.

......

 

I would imagine the explanation for this is that the MVT can only publish material / information provided to them.

 

I belong to a local group and know that on the odd occasion the deadline for submission of Area Reports has been missed.

 

Would it be reasonable to conclude that any bias you may have noticed will be towards the groups who submit regular and timely material for the magazine?

[No Signals]

I would imagine the explanation for this is that the MVT can only publish material / information provided to them.

 

I belong to a local group and know that on the odd occasion the deadline for submission of Area Reports has been missed.

 

Would it be reasonable to conclude that any bias you may have noticed will be towards the groups who submit regular and timely material for the magazine?

 

I agree there could be something in this. I don't know John Carrolls schedule/diary but, from what I read, he does seem to put in quite a few miles around the country and seemingly reports on what he sees. I'm guessing he is doing a voluntary job in what he does? There can only be so many things you can reasonably expect a volunteer to do or visit and it seems to me a reasonable expectation to get a plug in/ a report in on your own event if you want those things to happen. Not taking sides here, it sounds a shame that a good show didn't get reported on, but did anyone involved with, or at, the event write a report?

[Minesweeper]

So very easy to be critical! It would be just as easy for anybody intending to attend any event in which they have a particular interest to contact the editor of a Club Magazine before hand and ask if the Editor has anybody in mind to do a report on it - and if not, would you like "me" to do it?

 

Tony

Edited February 17, 2014 by Minesweeper

[Brooky]

If people dont contribute to the magazine then there wont be anything in it!!

JC is the editor but can only edit what people send in and cant attend every event

Given the comments it is very strange that Windscreen has recently won an award for best improved club magazine!!

Perhaps the person who started the thread should write a few words about the event and send some photos???

Perhaps that person should take the concern up with the council of management rather than spend time on here

Remember 99% of the effort that goes into running the MVT is done by volunteers

Edited November 29, 2013 by Brooky

[Great War truck]

This thread is going to stir up some emotions I think.

 

When I was living in Devon we had one chap regularly complaining that local events he attended were not written about in the Area Report. Fair dues. But then again he never actually came to Area meetings, he didn't tell the Area Secretary (who wrote the Area reports) about these events and finally no one who attended the Area meetings knew who he was.

 

Windscreen is full of show reports written by members, not the editor. I am sure the Damyns Hall event was excellent, but who's responsibility should it be to write about it? if the show received a grant from the MVT then the MVT would expect a report on the event to be produced by the organisers to go into Windscreen in return. If it did not receive a grant the organisers would surely write a report anyway to stir up even more interest for the next years show. As no report seems to have been done, did it fall outside the deadline for its submission. Maybe it will be in the next issue? Before you start down the road of "not being fit for purpose" I think you should ask who's responsibility it is to write in to Windscreen. Remember it is a club magazine not a commercial magazine. It is not the editors job to go around the country taking photos and writing reports on shows (unlike CMV and MMI), he is paid a small amount for editing purposes. It is up to the members.

 

The perceived bias on certain Areas, groups or shows is down to those people writing about themselves. Some Area reports are longer than others. As an Area Secretary I am given a guide of writing 900 words for each Area report. I usually write more than that then whittle down to 900 and send in three or four photos to go with it. If I write less than that I feel I have short changed the Area members. No one will blow my local MVT Area's trumpet as loudly as me.

 

If show reports were sent in on time and not published for Damyns Hall I would think that that would create a subject for consideration. If you feel that Areas or shows are not fully represented we should consider why that might be. Lack of Area reports, then it is down to the Area Secretary. Maybe nothing really happened that quarter, a deadline was missed, or sickness, IT failure, it could be many a reason. it can happen to us all. A lack of show reports? Who's responsibility was it to write? Not the Editor. Next year, find someone to write it. Write your own? Is your Area under represented? Write into Windscreen and tell everybody what great things you have been doing. No one will ever know unless you tell us.

 

Windscreen is run by elected members. If you don't like any aspect of it raise it at a council of management meeting. Put yourself up for election. Fresh blood is always good. Change things to the way you think they should be run.

 

Your final paragraph states:

 

If the MVT fail to represent, support and help all groups within their organisation than they are falling very far short of their stated aims. As our governing body they should be there for all of their members.

 

So tell us, what can the MVT do differently so that everyone feels represented, supported and helped? An opportunity for a lively discussion.

 

I hope no one takes this as a slanging match, but as a positive way to come up with ideas to move forwards.

[snort]

This thread is going to stir up some emotions I think.

 

When I was living in Devon we had one chap regularly complaining that local events he attended were not written about in the Area Report. Fair dues. But then again he never actually came to Area meetings, he didn't tell the Area Secretary (who wrote the Area reports) about these events and finally no one who attended the Area meetings knew who he was.

 

Windscreen is full of show reports written by members, not the editor. I am sure the Damyns Hall event was excellent, but who's responsibility should it be to write about it? if the show received a grant from the MVT then the MVT would expect a report on the event to be produced by the organisers to go into Windscreen in return. If it did not receive a grant the organisers would surely write a report anyway to stir up even more interest for the next years show. As no report seems to have been done, did it fall outside the deadline for its submission. Maybe it will be in the next issue? Before you start down the road of "not being fit for purpose" I think you should ask who's responsibility it is to write in to Windscreen. Remember it is a club magazine not a commercial magazine. It is not the editors job to go around the country taking photos and writing reports on shows (unlike CMV and MMI), he is paid a small amount for editing purposes. It is up to the members.

 

The perceived bias on certain Areas, groups or shows is down to those people writing about themselves. Some Area reports are longer than others. As an Area Secretary I am given a guide of writing 900 words for each Area report. I usually write more than that then whittle down to 900 and send in three or four photos to go with it. If I write less than that I feel I have short changed the Area members. No one will blow my local MVT Area's trumpet as loudly as me.

 

If show reports were sent in on time and not published for Damyns Hall I would think that that would create a subject for consideration. If you feel that Areas or shows are not fully represented we should consider why that might be. Lack of Area reports, then it is down to the Area Secretary. Maybe nothing really happened that quarter, a deadline was missed, or sickness, IT failure, it could be many a reason. it can happen to us all. A lack of show reports? Who's responsibility was it to write? Not the Editor. Next year, find someone to write it. Write your own? Is your Area under represented? Write into Windscreen and tell everybody what great things you have been doing. No one will ever know unless you tell us.

 

Windscreen is run by elected members. If you don't like any aspect of it raise it at a council of management meeting. Put yourself up for election. Fresh blood is always good. Change things to the way you think they should be run.

 

Your final paragraph states:

 

If the MVT fail to represent, support and help all groups within their organisation than they are falling very far short of their stated aims. As our governing body they should be there for all of their members.

 

So tell us, what can the MVT do differently so that everyone feels represented, supported and helped? An opportunity for a lively discussion.

 

I hope no one takes this as a slanging match, but as a positive way to come up with ideas to move forwards.

 

 

 

 

 

Well Done!

[Jolly Jeeper]

I have been reading Windscreen for around 3 years now and have formed the opinion that there would seem to be a definite bias in favour of certain groups/areas.

 

In the current edition of Windscreen there is absolutely no mention of the Military and Flying Machines show held at Damyns Hall at the start of August. Indeed in John Carroll's article he states " unexpectedly early August was quiet while much of the population was on holiday" I find it hard to believe that somebody so senior in the MVT hasn't heard about what must be one of the bigger MVT shows, so what does he silence on the subject say?

 

I attended the Damyns Hall show and found it excellent, well run and very well attended. I also attended Wicksteed at War and I must say that as it was our National MVT show I assumed it would be something special, sadly in truth it was far from that. Needless to say there were a lot of column inches given over to the Wicksteed show in Windscreen.

 

 

 

 

My, my - we do love a conspiracy theory don't we?

 

To answer your points;

Bias; I use what is sent in. If I don't get something I can't use it. Some areas and event organisers re very proactive, some aren't.

No Mention of Damyns Hall; Nothing whatsoever has been sent in.

Unexpectedly August was quiet; It could have said Unexpectedly [for me, my diary for] August was quiet while much of the population was on holiday [so I went camping with my girlfriend for the weekend]… family event blah blah...

Hasn't heard; Yes, I've heard about it, that's why I published adverts for it in Windscreen and The Green Sheet.

What does the silence say; Err, that no one sent a report or pictures like they did last year when it was covered.

Wicksteed; Yes, it received coverage because someone sent a report and pictures. Wartime in the Vale received more coverage because, with the correspondent's permission, I bolstered the report with some of my own pictures. I went to Wartime In The Vale but not Damyns Hall or Croft or Wicksteed or...

 

I have no intention of getting into any politics on here other than to say that I will use as much as possible of everything that is sent to me.

Anyone who thinks there's a conspiracy of any sort doesn't know me. The beginning of the page that you quote from gives an indication of how busy I am with Windscreen - I didn't go to the Northern Expo which is about 20 miles from where I live in order to finish the latest issue.

The deadline for the next issue of Windscreen is published on page 3, as 13.01.14 so there's plenty of time for you, whoever you are, to write something and send the pictures. I will look forward to receiving them.

 

John Carroll

[Pete Ashby]

Does anybody feel that the MVT are somewhat failing in their stated aims in the furtherance our hobby for the mutual benefit of ALL members? I have been reading Windscreen for around 3 years now and have formed the opinion that there would seem to be a definite bias in favour of certain groups/areas.

 

In the current edition of Windscreen there is absolutely no mention of the Military and Flying Machines show held at Damyns Hall at the start of August. Indeed in John Carroll's article he states " unexpectedly early August was quiet while much of the population was on holiday" I find it hard to believe that somebody so senior in the MVT hasn't heard about what must be one of the bigger MVT shows, so what does he silence on the subject say?

 

I attended the Damyns Hall show and found it excellent, well run and very well attended. I also attended Wicksteed at War and I must say that as it was our National MVT show I assumed it would be something special, sadly in truth it was far from that. Needless to say there were a lot of column inches given over to the Wicksteed show in Windscreen.

 

If the MVT fail to represent, support and help all groups within their organisation than they are falling very far short of their stated aims. As our governing body they should be there for all of their members.

 

Firstly I would like to draw your attention to my MVT membership number at the bottom of my post.

 

I take it as you have been reading Windscreen for 3 years this equates to the length of time you have been a member the less charitable among us may suggest you get your ''knees brown and get some in'' before you start considering and voicing publicly issues of this nature.

 

I have seen the magazine progress from a manually typed and printed A4 hand stapled news letter of the MVCG through various formats and name changes to the very professional production that we see today. Others have already pointed out that if you do not contribute material then an editor has no option but to scratch around and print what he has to hand so a question to you 'GPW Rookie' have you contributed any thing to the club or the magazine?.

 

The second point I wish to take issue with is your apparent assumption that the MVT exists as a separate body from it's membership. I feel I need to point out that the MVT is you, (I'm assuming here that you are indeed a member), the committee is voted in and made up of members just like you they have lives jobs and God forbid some spare time to enjoy our joint hobby. Having been an area secretary for a number of years and then served more time as an events organizer for my area I can tell you categorically that time for personal enjoyment is short and hassles are many.

 

So to conclude, rather than asking open ended provocative questions why not contribute positively to your club and either write an article for the magazine or stand for election at next years AGM.

 

Pete

Edited November 29, 2013 by Pete Ashby

[Richard Farrant]

Firstly I would like to draw your attention to my MVT membership number at the bottom of my post.

 

I take it as you have been reading Windscreen for 3 years this equates to the length of time you have been a member the less charitable among us may suggest you get your ''knees brown and get some in'' before you start considering and voicing publicly issues of this nature.

 

I have seen the magazine progress from a manually typed and printed A4 hand stapled news letter of the MVCG through various formats and name changes to the very professional production that we see today. Others have already pointed out that if you do not contribute material then an editor has no option but to scratch around and print what he has to hand so a question to you 'GPW Rookie' have you contributed any thing to the club or the magazine?.

 

The second point I wish to take issue with is your apparent assumption that the MVT exists as a separate body from it's membership. I feel I need to point out that the MVT is you, (I'm assuming here that you are indeed a member), the committee is voted in and made up of members just like you they have lives jobs and God forbid some spare time to enjoy our joint hobby. Having been an area secretary for a number of years and then severed more time as an events organizer for my area I can tell you categorically that time for personal enjoyment is short and hassles are many.

 

So to conclude, rather than asking open ended provocative questions why not contribute positively to your club and either write an article for the magazine or stand for election at next years AGM.

 

Pete

 

Pete,

Good reply, well said.

As an editor of a club magazine and a monthly newsletter for two separate MV clubs, I know only too well that you can only put in what you get sent in.

 

Like you I have been in the MVT for many years without a break, think it is about 37 years now and I have never had any criticism of it and certainly would not post it on an open forum.

 

cheers Richard

[N.O.S.]

I'd call that a result all round - the initial questions comprehensively answered and all wayward points corrected, and the MVT has a new volunteer roving reporter in the form of GPW Rookie.:-D

[Pete Ashby]

I'd call that a result all round - the initial questions comprehensively answered and all wayward points corrected, and the MVT has a new volunteer roving reporter in the form of GPW Rookie.:-D

 

Nuff said

 

Pete

[Gerry275]

Well I read the mag and..... Thought...... I really enjoyed that :clap:

[cordenj]

...and I sent in several photos, which were published this month.

But then I've contributed to the IMPS magazine too.

 

Seems to me that member's input + a lot of work by the editor and team = Club magazine.

[woa2]

I used to be Editor of 'Windscreen'. If nobody sent in an article about a show, then I couldn't print anything about it. Did anybody send anything to the Editor about Damyns Hall show?

If you want an article about a specific event or subject, then write it and send it in - I'm sure the current Editor will receive it gladly.

[Runflat]

Does anybody feel that the MVT are somewhat failing in their stated aims in the furtherance our hobby for the mutual benefit of ALL members?

 

The aims of the MVT are set out in the Memorandum of Association: http://www.mvt.org.uk/membership/memorandum_of_association.html

 

 

3. The Trust is established for the purpose of restoring and preserving military vehicles of historical interest and the preservation of books, drawings, records, documents, sound and visual recordings, films, photographs and other media and ephemera relating to such vehicles, their history and development, and promoting and encouraging the same aim in others.

 

And in furtherance of the above objects but not further or otherwise the Trust shall have the following powers:

 

 

 

A. To take over the whole of the assets and liabilities of the existing company limited by shares known as the Military Vehicle Conservation Group Limited and to enter into such agreement and to take all such steps as may be necessary for the purpose.

 

 

 

B. To manufacture, produce, print, engrave, publish, edit, distribute, buy, sell and deal in newspapers, periodicals, posters, leaflets, books, booklets, maps, guides, calendars, films, film strips, photographs, records, record cards prints, art works and other visual and audio aid material provided that the Trust shall not engage in any activities which are in the nature of permanent trading.

 

 

 

C. To acquire by gift, devise, purchase, lease, hire or otherwise, any real or personal property, and any estate or interest therein, and any rights or privileges necessary or convenient, or capable of being used or applied for any of the purposes of the Trust, and to sell, lease, lend or dispose of, or otherwise deal with all or any part of the same in such manner as may be thought expedient with a view to the promotion of the objects of the Trust.

 

 

 

D. To organise, sponsor and support military vehicle and such other shows and events and encourage the appearance of historic military vehicles at public events and shows for the provision and stimulation of information, education and interest in such vehicles.

 

 

 

E. To accept any bequest, devise, gift or donation whatsoever (whether of money or of property of any description) towards the objects of the Trust, and to apply the same or the proceeds of sale or realisation thereof to the objects of the Trust or to invest the same or such proceeds, and to apply the income arising there from, for any of the objects of the Trust.

 

 

 

F. Generally to obtain money for the objects of the Trust in any lawful manner and to invest, apply or deal with the same in such lawful manner as may be considered most desirable for effecting such objects.

 

 

 

G. To invest any moneys of the Trust not immediately required for its purposes in or upon such investments securities or property as may be thought fit, subject nevertheless to such conditions (if any) and such consents (if any) as may for the time being be imposed or required by law and subject also as hereinafter provided.

 

 

 

H. Subject to such consents (if any) as may be required by law, to borrow or to raise money and for the purpose of securing any debt or obligation of the Trust to mortgage or charge all or any part of its property and assets, present or future.

 

 

 

I. To aid and co-operate with any charitable association, society or corporation in Great Britain or Northern Ireland having among its objects the permanent preservation of any transport relics or other material or things the preservation of which is included within the objects of the Trust.

 

 

 

J. To subscribe, make donations or make loans to any such association, society or corporation as aforesaid with a view to obtaining any advantages or benefits for or promoting the objects of the Trust.

 

 

 

K. To maintain, manage, or to assist in the maintenance or management of, charitable museums or other premises for the purpose of the preservation of public exhibition of transport relics, books, drawings, records, documents, sound and visual recordings, cinematograph films and photographs as aforesaid and to act in any trust for or as trustee of any property devoted to such purposes.

 

 

 

L. To do all such other lawful things as are necessary to the attainment or furtherance of the above objects.

 

 

 

 

To me, power D is more about encouraging the display of MVs to, and the education of, the public rather than club members. So I can't see that the original premise - that the MVT is failing in its aims by not reporting on events to its membership through the club magazine - is upheld.

[Jolly Jeeper]

What is really positive about this thread is the overwhelming support for the MVT and the magazine as well as the understanding of the problems faced by anyone putting a magazine such as Windscreen together. It is noticeable that among posters here are current and past contributors and someone whose seat I now occupy. I feel like a novice member compared to many, having joined in the late eighties (Mem 3803), but appreciate the support and enthusiasm for our organisation - it is something I will continue to respect with future editions.

 

Some may have heard that Windscreen recently won 'Most Improved Club Magazine at the 2013' Classic and Sports Car magazine awards at the NEC Classic Car show. I was flattered by the win but see it as a win for the MVT especially the contributors who provide the material to turn into a magazine and those who brought Windscreen to where it could be built on further - without all those people and their efforts there would be no Windscreen, let alone trophies for it.

 

Gentlemen, the positive comments here and the aforementioned contributions make one ill-informed, negative poster's comments pale into insignificance and leave my enthusiasm undimmed. Another person reading this has PM'd me offering a restoration feature - I'm about to reply to him saying 'yes please'.

 

I doubt I'll say anything more on this thread but thanks again for the positive remarks.

 

John C

Edited November 29, 2013 by Jolly Jeeper

[rgb]

Sorry to come in late (Thanks for pointing me here Lee!) but there was a big article on the Essex MVT Show in the issue before the show. There isn't a lot of point in having an article saying how good it was, the emphasis has to be on saying how good it's going to be!

 

Speaking for myself, I am completely knackered by the end of the show, and after 8 days of living in a tent, with mountains of stress and no sleep writing an article is a long, long way down my list of things to do. If you went, and you liked it, write an article and send in your pictures

 

Richard

[mogmaner]

This thread has served as good sounding board ,proving we have a editor how will stand and be counted,when there is critisism that can only be good for the MVT .

[gas 44]

My membership number is in the high thousands and I for one would be VERY offended if ANYONE told me to "get me knees brown and get some in"

That comment would VERY swiftly be followed by "not on your nelly"

We are in 2013, not 1950's national service.

I dont know the original poster, but it seems to me, as if he may stand back from any future input........

As it happens I think the MVT do a pretty good job.

Edited December 2, 2013 by gas 44
to make LEE smile........

[Marmite!!]

That comment would VERY swiftly be followed by "you had better get some tissues in mate to mop up that blood from your nose".

That sort of comment is not in the spirit of the forum and is unwelcome here...

[Jolly Jeeper]

In the current edition of Windscreen there is absolutely no mention of the Military and Flying Machines show held at Damyns Hall at the start of August.

 

Seeing Windscreen 142 is in the post on its way to members of the MVT, I thought that, before any more of these tiresome conspiracy theories start circulating, I'd mention that there's no mention of the Military and Flying Machines Show at Damyns Hall in this issue either. Unsurprisingly, the poster who started this thread about Windscreen 141, hasn't sent a show report and nor has anybody else, Just to be 100% clear: had I been sent something I would have included it.

 

Thanks all. John C

Edited February 17, 2014 by Jolly Jeeper

[Ivor Ramsden]

Good on you, John, get in there before the sniping starts! You're doing a first rate job and I'm looking forward to receiving 142.

[Jolly Jeeper]

 

Thanks Ivor. JC