Several questions in a single post... I am new...

[Jimmy F]

I have a couple of niggling issues and they've either not been asked, or my ability to search the forum leaves something to be desired. She's a 1944 Morris CS8 GS 15 cwt.

 

first off: oil. I've been told the 30 weight Morris oil is a good choice, but I have also been told that the leak may be to do with the fact the oil Ian my thick enough as it becomes like water under heat. Any suggestions?

 

Secondly. The paintwork. There are a few spots of surface rust. If I was to sand this down and genolite any bad patches and then I was to paint over those spots would it be glaringly obvious or would the paint blend in??

 

Thirdly, the battery. She has a normal car battery in and the dynamo is only sending a slight charge. I initially thought no charge was being sent, but checked and when she is given some throttle a small charge is sent, but nothing when ticking over. Any suggestions on this? Also, would she benefit from a truck battery?

 

Thabks in advance.

[Gordon_M]

Sounds like your battery is fully charged, and the generator output was probably modest to begin with. If she will start and run, and put up with running the headlights, don't mess with it other than checking battery voltage now and again.

 

Paint touch-up will always show. It's more important to do it right than to get an exact match. Eventually you will overcoat the lot and it will match, but if you haven't done the touch up right it will come through.

[Jimmy F]

Battery was completely dead last night, took it out and had it on charge overnight, but checked the charge while it was dead. On Wednesday she was driven for three hours and then another two hours yesterday.

 

When the engine is on, strangely the headlights and indicators all worked.

[paulbrook]

Hi there and welcome.

 

In answer to your questions 30 weight Morris oil is ideal - changed reasonably regularly. Unless the leak is really bad then I would live with it for now - and I strongly advise against trying to cure it with oil choice or additives!

 

The same applies to the paintwork -what you suggest is just fine until it gets to the point where a little deeper refurbishment is required (patch painting is exactly what it would have had in service so why not now?). If you are worried about a paint match then opt for painting the panel or section complete that the patch you have been working on is, that way any slight changes in paint texture or shade will be much less noticable. Another good rust killer is called Vactan by the way.

 

As for the electrics then the choice of battery is pretty immaterial if the charging system is being lazy. I posted how to test a while ago - but I cant seem to find it at the mo. But basically you disconnect the generator completely from the wiring loom. Connect the two connections on the generator together then start the engine - and read the output from the combined terminals with a good voltmenter. At tickover it should be reading between 12-14 volts. Gently raise the revs (not too far) and the output should increase - dont go too much - 18v is fine. If thats all in order you have a problem with the regulator/cut out or battery.

 

If however the output is a lot less than 12 volts then my money would be on sticking/worn brushes. It may be other problems though, but at least you know where the problem is! There are other tests you can do if output is low - but thats enough to be going on with!!

[mike30841]

Hi and welcome.

 

My understanding of charging systems with a dynamo, as opposed to an alternator, is that they do not deliver a charge whilst the engine is idling, only when the revs are increased. This is why the ignition light will usually come on at tickover - it is indicating that there is no charge. Provided the ignition light goes off as the revs increase, then the dynamo should be charging correctly. (With an alternator, the system will charge even at tickover speeds). You do not say whether the ignition light comes on or not, so that ought to be the first thing to check.

 

I should add that my knowledge of auto-electrics is pretty basic, so if anyone out there knows I different, I would be pleased to be put right - always happy to learn.

 

Mike.

[Tony B]

Hi and welcome. my two pennyworth, check the drive on the dynamo is tight. May also be worn or stuck brushes. But you need to check with someone like Richard Farrant, I think there is a funny the way the dynamo is driven off the timing chain. Check all connections are clean, dynamos are touchy that way. A good spray of contact cleaner or WD40 into the back of the Dynamo might cure the problem. Dynamos are quite simple to work on, but you must remeber the re polarise it after work, BEFORE you refit the regulator wires. Oil, well 30 is the right stuff, but if you flush the engine out well 20/50 can be used (Wait for screams from Degsey! It is an on going discussion:D). As for the leack, where is it coming from? As for surface rust, a good clean up and application of a rust killer, I swear by a stuff called Vactan, then re paint. A Military Vehicle is a working tool, so a bit of battered look is in keeping.

[Richard Farrant]

But you need to check with someone like Richard Farrant, I think there is a funny the way the dynamo is driven off the timing chain.

 

Oil, well 30 is the right stuff, but if you flush the engine out well 20/50 can be used (Wait for screams from Degsey! It is an on going discussion:D).

 

I had already made the point to the new owner about how the dynamo is driven, on another thread, but good reminder. If heed is not taken, then it will cause a problem as the timing chain could drop off the sprockets.

 

As for changing from a straight monograde oil to a detergent multigrade, I would not trust flushing, anyhow, as multigrade oil are designed for full flow filtration systems it is not suitable for older engines, hence why these oils are still produced. Stick with the original spec. i oil is leaking it is not due to the type of oil being used, it is because there is a leak !!

 

regards Richard

[Tony B]

Thanks for clarification! Out of intrest, does the back come off easily to check brushes?

[ruxy]

You should have no charge at tick-over , the cut-out disconects. When revs increase and the dynamo voltage is larger than the battery voltage (approx. 13 volts) = you should be charging.

 

Whilst on a alternator 15 volt should be considered overcharge (regulator inoperative) - thus danger of fire. With a genny - you need to be looking for a terminal voltage of 16 volts at full charge. To get something into the battery at this state - you need at least 18 volts from the genny.

 

With a accurate voltmeter , remove the battery float charge (leave headlamps on for 3 to 4 min) . A good indication is to raise the revs - when the genny voltage is about same as battery voltage ( that you now know) , the charge warning should go out. This would indicate the genny is healthy , if your battery is going flat - then there are several causes that should be investigated before blaming the genny. You would more or less have to disconect the battery leave it overnight . If the voltage is low in the morning - blame the battery. If not , then re-connect the battery - if it is low voltage the next morning then you have leakage to earth somewhere , involving isolation of circuits to eliminate - then final zero in to the fault.

[paulbrook]

All useful stuff, but "dynamo sending a small charge" says to me "check the dynamo....."

[Tony B]

All useful stuff, but "dynamo sending a small charge" says to me "check the dynamo....."

So mostly you come back to brushes or dirt. I'd start there before going anywhere near the voltage regulator.

[Degsy]

Oil, well 30 is the right stuff, but if you flush the engine out well 20/50 can be used (Wait for screams from Degsey! It is an on going discussion:D).

 

As Richard has already answered all I have to say to Tony is 'You can lead a horse to water' etc;)

[Richard Farrant]

all I have to say to Tony is 'You can lead a horse to water' etc;)

 

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[paulbrook]

I once said that you can lead a horse to water etc to a cavalry chum who just grinned and said "yes but you can f*** it about a bit first to make sure its thirsty............."

[Tony B]

You can lead a horse to water! It's when the horse decides to drag you into the water that the fun starts!

[GeePig]

I remember someone telling me that to get a dynamo to work they would fill it with petrol (I think), start the engine, set light to the petrol and then extinguish the fire when the ignition light went out.

 

I don't recommend trying this AT ALL, EVER!

 

But, if someone did, I would love to know the result.

[Tony B]

You try it! We will all watch, from a long way away!

[paulbrook]

I remember someone telling me that to get a dynamo to work they would fill it with petrol (I think), start the engine, set light to the petrol and then extinguish the fire when the ignition light went out.

 

I don't recommend trying this AT ALL, EVER!

 

But, if someone did, I would love to know the result.

 

mmm

 

did he have eyebrows?

[Jimmy F]

I remember someone telling me that to get a dynamo to work they would fill it with petrol (I think), start the engine, set light to the petrol and then extinguish the fire when the ignition light went out.

 

I don't recommend trying this AT ALL, EVER!

 

But, if someone did, I would love to know the result.

 

That sounds like a brilliant idea! I'll definitely try it. Wait, no. No I won't! I'll stick to the traditional way for the time being.

 

 

I'm going to change all the plugs and fluids this week as well as the coil, plus there may be something a little more wrong with her. Let's just put it this way... She'll have a new head gasket and possibly new oil rings soon enough.

 

 

I also plan to change as many of the hoses as possible after a long chat with a local guy who knows his stuff (and I believe has commented on this thread already).

 

 

Also, to track down a manual for her...

[GeePig]

You try it! We will all watch, from a long way away!

 

Whatever happened to the spirit of adventure? :rotfl:

 

I would do it myself, but, you see, I have no dynamo.

 

And I like my eyebrows.

[Tony B]

Whatever happened to the spirit of adventure? :rotfl:

 

I would do it myself, but, you see, I have no dynamo.

 

And I like my eyebrows.

 

Don't know if you saw the tribute to Dave Allen on BBC TV last night. They showed the sketch where they are lowering a coffin into a grave. It goes on and on down till eventually there is a clang and a whoosh of flame. Aparently the prop boy poured half a gallon of petrol into the hole then added a match. :cool2: I'd forgotten how funny Dave Allen was.

[Morris C8]

Hi,

Do you have a photo of your morris you could show us.

[Mattyboy]

I had already made the point to the new owner about how the dynamo is driven, on another thread, but good reminder. If heed is not taken, then it will cause a problem as the timing chain could drop off the sprockets.

 

As for changing from a straight monograde oil to a detergent multigrade, I would not trust flushing, anyhow, as multigrade oil are designed for full flow filtration systems it is not suitable for older engines, hence why these oils are still produced. Stick with the original spec. i oil is leaking it is not due to the type of oil being used, it is because there is a leak !!

 

regards Richard

 

This isn't strictly ture anymore, the advantages with the original spec straight 30 oil is it is free from the nasty detergents that do more harm than good in older engines and also you can tell all your friends that you are using the 'original spec oil'. However when it gets hot after you have done some serious miles, you will find your oil presure drops and it starts to drip and leak out of even the best of engines. You might not mind this, originaly this would have been fine and the norm, however the nice people from VOSA might take a differnet view at 'excessive oil leaks' on a road side check, anyway who wants to spend there time cleaning the engine all the time?

 

So why not try a multigrade, yes most modern ones have detergents in them but why not try this:

 

Golden Film 20W/50 is a specialist oil recommended for use in veteran, classic and vintage cars, motorcycles and tractors including those which do not have the full flow type of oil filter. It is a low dispersant oil which allows the combustion chamber contamination to drop harmlessly into the sump.

 

Its multigrade properties provide improved cold start circulation whilst maintaining good working oil pressure.

 

We often recommend this oil for customers who remember fondly the old Duckhams green multigrade, as it offers similar characteristics and good value.

Performance Levels API SF/CC and MIL-L-2104B

 

 

 

its also cheaper!

[ruxy]

Generally - I would agree , you will get the die-hards who stick to SAE 30 in winter & SAE 40 in summer.

 

It took Volkswagen until about 1977 until they officially approved multi-grades in air-cooled engines.

 

btw - you still get twits who believe SAE 30HD is in fact 30 (in High Detergent form).

 

==============

 

However the arguments still go on

 

QUOTE.

 

Modern dispersant additives keep combustion chamber contamination suspended in the lubricant, allowing full flow cartridge filters to remove it. Early oil filtration, usually in the form of a mesh gauze or strainer, is not efficient enough to remove this suspended material. Golden Film Motor Oils are low dispersant oils and allow the suspended matter to drop harmlessly into the sump.

 

from :-

 

http://www.morrislubricants.co.uk/scripts/prodview.asp?idcat=114&idProduct=165

 

 

Remember how you remove the strainer on a VW Beetle & types, clean the bottom plate of fine grey debris (ground up metals) LoL , new plate / strainer gaskets & copper washers.

 

A straight 30 or 40 weight , in theory may be better, although a more modern high detergent oil (into a already clean engine) should retain all the £rap that is removed in full at next sump drain.

[Tony B]

Halford's do a classic 20/50. I've used the stuff for thre eor four years now in my dodge 51. Great stuff, I had been using Valvoline 20/50. The advantage of the Halford's oil is it does keep oil pressure up after a long hard run.