Advice on the price for a 353 CCKW

[mash]

I am looking for what would be considered a good price to sell a 1939 hard cab 353 CCKW, the vehicle is in good condition, and just had a full repaint as well as some work done to the brakes (new hoses etc all round), I am not the owner of this vehicle but am asking on behalf of a friend as they have been offered £5500 for it, however looking on milweb i have yet to see a truck of this age and with a steel bed for sale and i am thinking that it is worth more than the offer given. Many thanks in advance for your advice, Mash.

[Pete Ashby]

Has the truck got civilian dash instruments and an ash tray fitted ? if it really is early then it should have these as standard, what is the frame number?

If it really is early then it would not be unreasonable to expect a premium on the price but that is very dependant on condition.

 

Pete

Edited July 17, 2012 by Pete Ashby

[mash]

Hi, thanks, paperwork says 1939 so that is what I am going off, will try to find out the chassis number.

[Big ray]

If the condition is good, then I think that thats somewhat under priced......... I would have thought that the going rate would be nearer £7,000.00.

[deadline]

Its not a 1939. The ACKW's didn't even start till 1940. CCKWs were 41.

 

Please don't be turned off the terms I use.. they are meant to be descriptive, not derogatory.

 

Going by current exchange rates 5500GBP is $8600USD. I would consider that the UPPER MOST, HIGHEST end of CCKW-salad trucks. Generally, unless there is something rare about the truck the range is £2500-£4000. Most people throw on a coat of paint expecting it to help the value... it doesn't. It signals a red flag to dig deeper. If the truck is WORTH the asking price, why need to paint it? Plus most paint is an effort to hide something, plus you are hoping your choice of color is what the buyer wants. If I want a different shade now I have to repaint.... and that means the truck is worth LESS to me.

 

That said I really don't see ANY CCKW cargo truck (352-353, winch or not, MG Mount or not, closed or open cab) approaching £5000-£7000 unless its truly original, all the parts, or restored to museum quality. Most individuals are not capable of that level of work.

 

It's not until you are into fully restored, all equipment present varients would I even consider anything over £8000. If its a fuel truck... pumps, hoses, filters, valves etc all need to be there. If its a shop van, repair, optical, I want to see grinders, tool bins etc. Very few trucks ever reach the level and they do command the price. I have seen a few fully equipped trucks, and I even know what they paid for them.

 

Unless its armor, trucks rarely return the investment in time/material. CCKWs simply are not rare... unlike an origianl Shelby Cobra, or 'insert car name here'.

 

It would be informative to see the cab, under the hood, etc. But my guess is that those photos will only bring the value down.. as its most likely not painted properly, or has the wrong bits.

 

From the pictures its a 1608 cab (military gauges) as the mirror is on the cowl, not the door hinge.

 

There also appears to be some major just issues on the tailgate, and lower, front engine shields. Wipers, steering wheel and black out light are also incorrect. That's about £500-£750 of corrections right there.

 

Good luck on selling it.. get as much as you can for it... that way you can get another one.

Edited July 17, 2012 by deadline

[Vulture]

If the condition is good, then I think that thats somewhat under priced......... I would have thought that the going rate would be nearer £7,000.00.

 

I tend to agree with Ray. The value of CCKWs has been going up in terms of what people are prepared to pay, although there are some bargains to be had. If the tyres are good (and I mean just more than legal) and the canvas is good as well then he should be able to get more than £5,000 if he hangs on.

[Degsy]

Deadline whilst your comments on price may be correct for the States they are far from realistic in Europe. I see where you are coming from in regard to the paint but unless it is hiding a multitude of sins which can easily be checked then I would be much more concerned about the condition of all the mechanical items and a thorough road test and subsequent examination

should show up any faults. As you say it can't possibly be 1939 manufacture but again the true date of manufacture can easily be proved by reference to the chassis number. I doubt that it is an original steel body, more likely of French or Norwegian manufacture.

[mcspool]

Hi, thanks, paperwork says 1939 so that is what I am going off, will try to find out the chassis number.

 

In the past many WW2 trucks in the UK were "declared built in 1939" to avoid taxes or some such.

[mash]

Hi Guys, many thanks for all the advice so far, I don't own this vehicle and am only going off what the paperwork that came with the vehicle said. I do not know about these vehicles in depth but a lot of good knowledge is now being learnt, the repaint was done due to the owner wanting a fresh coat and only had to have the lower door welded to my knowledge, from what I have been told the vehicle was purchased after the war by a UK company as a logging truck, and never entered another armies stock.

I am trying to get hold of the chassis number but as i am in the UK and the truck is not I can't just pop down to have a look.

Again many thanks to you all.

[cosrec]

Its not a 1939. The ACKW's didn't even start till 1940. CCKWs were 41.

 

Please don't be turned off the terms I use.. they are meant to be descriptive, not derogatory.

 

Going by current exchange rates 5500GBP is $8600USD. I would consider that the UPPER MOST, HIGHEST end of CCKW-salad trucks. Generally, unless there is something rare about the truck the range is £2500-£4000. Most people throw on a coat of paint expecting it to help the value... it doesn't. It signals a red flag to dig deeper. If the truck is WORTH the asking price, why need to paint it? Plus most paint is an effort to hide something, plus you are hoping your choice of color is what the buyer wants. If I want a different shade now I have to repaint.... and that means the truck is worth LESS to me.

 

That said I really don't see ANY CCKW cargo truck (352-353, winch or not, MG Mount or not, closed or open cab) approaching £5000-£7000 unless its truly original, all the parts, or restored to museum quality. Most individuals are not capable of that level of work.

 

It's not until you are into fully restored, all equipment present varients would I even consider anything over £8000. If its a fuel truck... pumps, hoses, filters, valves etc all need to be there. If its a shop van, repair, optical, I want to see grinders, tool bins etc. Very few trucks ever reach the level and they do command the price. I have seen a few fully equipped trucks, and I even know what they paid for them.

 

Unless its armor, trucks rarely return the investment in time/material. CCKWs simply are not rare... unlike an origianl Shelby Cobra, or 'insert car name here'.

 

It would be informative to see the cab, under the hood, etc. But my guess is that those photos will only bring the value down.. as its most likely not painted properly, or has the wrong bits.

 

From the pictures its a 1608 cab (military gauges) as the mirror is on the cowl, not the door hinge.

 

There also appears to be some major just issues on the tailgate, and lower, front engine shields. Wipers, steering wheel and black out light are also incorrect. That's about £500-£750 of corrections right there.

 

Good luck on selling it.. get as much as you can for it... that way you can get another one.

 

tend to agree with what you have said but i will go a little further and put an exact price on it prospective seller will get exactly what prospective buyer pays

[deadline]

I watch MilWeb, ebay and private sales... I don't see trucks over $10,000 US selling at all. It would be nice if a high volume site like MilWeb *did* post sale prices that would help tremendously. Every time a truck comes up on ebay I watch it. There were several in the last few months and they asked $20,000 (down from $60,000!!!) and $18,000. These were average non-winch trucks in average condition (the $60,000 was an ST-5 with a coffee shop in it) and the highest bids are topping out at $9,000. Less than half of asking.

 

Even CCKWs listed in the MVPA's suppy line asking $12,000 don't sell.

 

I agree that you can stumble across a chap with more money than time to restore a truck.... but I would consider these the exception... not the rule as anyone who has bought an MV knows that rarely are they 100% mechanically.

 

By all means get what you can on the sale of the truck. If someone walks up and throws money at you, take it!!! But give me that same amount of money and I would want a much better truck.

[N.O.S.]

...But give me that same amount of money and I would want a much better truck.

 

Wouldn't we all, Deadline! But you try and find one.

 

No doubt I overpaid when buying my old girl for the asking £2,400 all of 25 years ago. 15 years later she was still only worth the same. Some 18 years later she must have appreciated in value by all of £500 Only recently have GMC prices started increasing, mainly due to the drying up of suitable resto projects. But in all honesty I could not begin to put a price on the pleasure I and others have got from her, so the question of value is academic until she has to go.

 

My take on it is this:

 

If you make a decision on whether or not to buy a truck based purely on its market value, you may just be buying the truck for the wrong reasons. We all look at things we can't afford, and perhaps just now and then we do something silly.

 

But if we buy with our hearts by asking 'What is it worth to me?', then we enter into a long term relationship which knows no financial boundaries - she'll get the attention she needs as and when finances allow. I never assume a down-at-heel truck's owner is not interested or unaware - he/she may be saving really hard to be able to lavish the care and attention needed.

 

I have a friend whose first question is always 'how much did you pay for that?' Frankly I think it's none of his business and I never give him a straight answer. It's because he always buys things with a view to having some fun for a while and selling on at a modest profit. That's more like a casual relationship than a partnership, and he is missing out on something special that you really can't put a price on.

 

But the short answer is just what Cosrec said :cool2:

[RattlesnakeBob]

Interesting debate on the value of this truck.... and it's good to see the different ideas/approaches that folk have to deciding on somethings value........

I have a good old mate who makes a fair bit of his living out of buying and selling all manner of vehicles....and he has a standard approach.

first off ....if the person selling says something similar to

"well, she owes me X amount"

my mates answer will be something along the lines of

" I don't give a monkies what she owes you mate, it's got no relevance whatsoever to what she's worth and if she owes you any more than that it's your problem not mine"

secondly.....

if the seller suggests the vehicle is worth 'X amount' because it has some kind of 'sentimental value' in that it was owned by his Grandad for many years or his sister was born in the back seat etc !

........ my mate will always say

"well..I'm not interested in buying the sentimental bit of her mate..you can keep that . I'm bidding on it exactly as it sits there"

I've been with him when he's buying and yes, he does sound a bit rude and harsh sometimes but.... believe it or not , it works and he gets some amazing bargains (compared to what the seller is originally expecting or trying to get for the vehicle ).

I've seen him bid way under half of what the seller is asking in situations where I certainly wouldn't have the neck to do so.....and I've often expected many sellers to tell him where to go... but they don't.... and he usually gets the deal somewhere near what he wants....

All to their trade I guess........

 

[N.O.S.]

I remember now , I did manage to beat the guy down to £2350 :cool2:

[deadline]

There is a saying that I never heard till buying MVs:

 

Buy the truck, not the story.

 

This was when every jeep on ebay had 'on the beaches of Normandy on D-Day!', 'Patton rode in it' in the description.

 

As I mentioned 90% of the owners don't have the time, money or knowledge to restore an MV to 100% mechanical and historical condition to warrant the premium prices they *think* they should get. Many of the parts simply don't exist, or are so rare that the price would never be recouped.

 

Every owner tinkers on an MV and thinks that it magically adds £500-£1000 of value. Sorry, no. If any thing the value is reduced as the fixes are really patches.

 

The OPs truck has some significant issues on the tailgate and lower engine shields. No to mention the other bits that I could see from the few photos.

 

My truck will require 11 new tires ($2800) a new full wiring harness ($1200) new canvas ($1200) while I will spend $6000 to get these items, sadly it does not increase the value of the truck by the same amount. I wish it did, but tires, once installed are used, a wiring harness is never seen, and canvas will deteriorate even with care and maintenance.

 

ALL VEHICLES DEPRECIATE. Few appreciate, but jeeps and CCKWs are generally not in that catagory.

 

Name your price, negotiate and get what you can. You'll either sell it for your price, get a little less, or not sell all.

[Big ray]

You just need a seller who does not give a damn if he sells his GMC or not, and a buyer who is desperate to acquire one, then you will most likely get the best price........ but then there is no logic when it comes to buying a piece of history, I am extremely fond of my GMC. I have had her since the early 1980s and I still think that she looks and drives great ( I was weened on crash boxes in the 1950s) Its a great feeling to be able to go where and when I want, not where the military tell me too, like they did in the 1950s. I dont think that you can put a price on pleasure, its got to be worth whatever you are prepared to pay for it (Within reason of course) My last purchase was a 1942 Royal Enfield WD. CO. I paid top money for the bike when I bought it, only to find that I had another £800 / £1000 to spend on her to get it right.......... but I said then, never mind, twelve months from now I will have forgotten all about the extra cost. I was right, the bike performs great and I had forgotten all about the money ( At least, until now I had)

[N.O.S.]

.... I dont think that you can put a price on pleasure, its got to be worth whatever you are prepared to pay for it .....

 

:thumbsup:

[deadline]

Actually its a lot simpler than that. Its basic economics.

 

If you buy parts are RETAIL (or vendor) price there is no room for profit. The value of a $1200 harness is, $1200. You don't add value to the harness by simply buying it. And actually you LOSE value when you install it.

 

Now if you could get parts for 20-30% off retail, then you have room for profit as you paid $1000 for a $1200 item.

 

The next mistake is that people assume their time is the same as professional mechanics time. NOPE. You are not guaranteeing the work.... who has sold an MV with a warranty?

 

If I could get the $6000 in parts I need for $4000 then yes, I have equity in parts.

 

The value of a truck and what someone will pay are two completely different things. I think I would have some moral issues if I lead a person to believe that a £2500 truck was WORTH £5000.

[Big ray]

Actually its a lot simpler than that. Its basic economics.

 

If you buy parts are RETAIL (or vendor) price there is no room for profit. The value of a $1200 harness is, $1200. You don't add value to the harness by simply buying it. And actually you LOSE value when you install it.

 

Now if you could get parts for 20-30% off retail, then you have room for profit as you paid $1000 for a $1200 item.

 

The next mistake is that people assume their time is the same as professional mechanics time. NOPE. You are not guaranteeing the work.... who has sold an MV with a warranty?

 

If I could get the $6000 in parts I need for $4000 then yes, I have equity in parts.

 

The value of a truck and what someone will pay are two completely different things. I think I would have some moral issues if I lead a person to believe that a £2500 truck was WORTH £5000.

 

Of course you are absolutely correct, but the love for an object of desire (like a woman or a GMC) is the most illogical basis for obtaining a bargain.............. after all, we think that the woman is lovely, untill we have to maintain her for any length of time................... of course this is all tongue-in-cheek.

[N.O.S.]

....The value of a truck and what someone will pay are two completely different things. I think I would have some moral issues if I lead a person to believe that a £2500 truck was WORTH £5000.

 

All good stuff, but sorry I just can't let you get away with that

 

Surely the value of a truck IS EXACTLY what someone is prepared to pay for it. How ever else can you value it? You can only base it on how much people are typically paying for one in similar condition. That is not necessarily the same as Asking Price.....(reference to lists sometimes seen in magazines....) If you don't know what you're looking at, take someone who does know along to advise. We can't all be experts, I know I'm not!

 

I think supply and demand has more bearing on it - why else would a Sherman tank for example fetch 10 times the price per tonne as a GMC?

 

To the seller - ask what you want - get what you can - be happy.

To the buyer - offer what you think you can get it for, be prepared to either walk away or find a middle ground or even pay the asking price - just be happy with either the truck or the cash in your pocket.

 

The best deal is when both buyer and seller can part company happy.

 

And your mention of parts prices - that is precisely why in the recent past many GMCs have been broken for spares - because they were worth more as spares than as a complete running truck - if not then people would have bought them as trucks.

 

Equity? I invest in the truck, not equity. If you want equity you're surely in the wrong hobby. All it needs is a hike in fuel costs and the value of your pension fund MV hits the floor hard.

Edited July 18, 2012 by N.O.S.

[deadline]

The VALUE of a truck is not what it costs. I could have bought a G506 from Nevada for $3000, but then have to pay $3000 to ship it home. Is the VALUE of that truck $6000? No.

 

Most collectables I have seen that are professionally appraised have a RANGE of value. An appraiser will rarely say 'This is worth X'. They know that the value is range of X to Y depending on a lot of factors.

 

Most people that sell MVs are not that sophisticated and will simply advertise a price.. and sometimes admit to the above by adding 'or best offer' which implicitly states that the price is not the value.

 

Whatever you finally end up paying is the cost at that moment in time... and the majority of time its not done with analytical precision, but emotional haphazardness.

 

I hope I am explaining this clearly enough.

[Big ray]

The VALUE of a truck is not what it costs. I could have bought a G506 from Nevada for $3000, but then have to pay $3000 to ship it home. Is the VALUE of that truck $6000? No.

 

Most collectables I have seen that are professionally appraised have a RANGE of value. An appraiser will rarely say 'This is worth X'. They know that the value is range of X to Y depending on a lot of factors.

 

Most people that sell MVs are not that sophisticated and will simply advertise a price.. and sometimes admit to the above by adding 'or best offer' which implicitly states that the price is not the value.

 

Whatever you finally end up paying is the cost at that moment in time... and the majority of time its not done with analytical precision, but emotional haphazardness.

 

I hope I am explaining this clearly enough.

 

Absolutely, and thank you for taking the time to do so.

[Pete Ashby]

 

Whatever you finally end up paying is the cost at that moment in time... and the majority of time its not done with analytical precision, but emotional haphazardness.

 

so there you go then.................. it's what ever the buyer is willing to pay at the end of day..... I'm glad we cleared that up

 

Pete

[N.O.S.]

The VALUE of a truck is not what it costs. I could have bought a G506 from Nevada for $3000, but then have to pay $3000 to ship it home. Is the VALUE of that truck $6000? No. ....

 

Sure about that? So let me get this right - was the value of the truck nearer to $3000? That's what it would have cost you to buy. An enthusiast in Nevada might have been pleased to buy it for that. What you do with it and where you move it to afterwards has nothing to do with what it is worth, except what it is worth TO YOU. It may well be that by the time you got it home you'd spent a total of more than you considered it was worth.

 

If you then put a $1200 wiring loom on it someone might say it ain't worth the extra $1200 as they could either bodge the wiring or make a loom for less money. But equally someone else might think 'Hey, he's done the wiring harness - that saves me a load of work so it makes sense to pay $1200 more than the price if he hadn't put it on'. Depends who is looking to buy when you sell.

 

Here's a real life example:

 

I almost bought a truck from USA right near a shipping port. It was an absolute steal, but the potentially horrendous shipping costs to UK put me off as it was at risk of costing in total much more than I felt I could justify spending. Perhaps if I'd wanted it a little bit more I would have had it. A good indication of what it was worth to me (at the time). And yes, 12 months later, with changed circumstance, I really do wish I'd bought it :red: That didn't stop an American enthusiast grabbing it - and what a bargain it seemed to me he got, so he obviously felt it was worth that much and more it to him.

 

People can ask what they like, what they'll get for it depends on who is buying at the time. The original question asked if the proposed asking price was realisitic. Certainly it makes sense to ask a realistic price to start with so as not to put potential purchasers off.

Edited July 19, 2012 by N.O.S.

[RattlesnakeBob]

Entirely agree with you there NOS..

As in if you choose to put solid gold bathroom taps in a 2 bed ex council semi it doesn't increase the price anymore...well...unless you then take the taps off and sell them I guess hahah!:-D