Advice on the price for a 353 CCKW

[N.O.S.]

....Personally I hate NDTs....

 

Here's a thought for the pedantics - most civvy tyres are NDT :-D Yes, in an off-road only context, NDT differentiates patterns like bar treads from traction type tread tyres, of which there were quite a few in the war.

 

Another thought - each size of tyre has a recommended rim size (width) and also a range of 'acceptable' width sizes. If in doubt your friendly commercial tyre dealer would be able to advise on acceptability of fitment of a bigger size to the same rim.

 

[HWade]

With regard to different tyres, if you look on the restoration thread of my Tractor Unit, there are some Black and white pics of Tractor units with different tyres. Howard

[N.O.S.]

With regard to different tyres, if you look on the restoration thread of my Tractor Unit, there are some Black and white pics of Tractor units with different tyres. Howard

 

Wouldn't these pictures have been taken in non-European theatre areas though, Howard? Like the Far East, where tyre supply would have been even more difficult?

[deadline]

I *REALLY* don't want to get into an 'authenticity' debate because unless you specifically define what that term means, and I mean really get into the specifics we'll just go round and round posting photos that prove both our points.

 

Actually, looking throught the G506 TM9-805, SNL-G506 and TM9-1765A NONE OF THEM SPECIFICITY A TYPE OF TIRE.

 

 

Lots of 'acceptable' substitutes and nary a mention of NDT/NDCC

 

GIs did did whatever they had to to keep the trucks on the road. So running with missing tires on the rear, civvy tires, you name it, they did it.

 

 

Its a fake ACKWX! Send it back to GMC! How unauthentic can you get? Where are the NDTs???

 

 

A fake pole boring Chevy! Ghaaa!!!!

 

What? Is that a civvy tire next to an NDCC? No no no that cannot happen. How un-AUTHENTIC of those GIs.

Edited September 2, 2012 by deadline

[deadline]

Going through TM10-1562 it does not even mention the tire proper. Nothing.

 

This is what the 44 TM9 has to say about tires:

 

 

No 'must use NDT/NDCC ONLY'. Other than an RECOMMENDATION to use the same type, and that they should be with in 1/4in in diameter.... nothing.

 

So, where is it written that the only acceptable use for an AUTHENTIC CCKW's TIRES are NDTs or NDCCs?

[N.O.S.]

I *REALLY* don't want to get into an 'authenticity' debate because unless you specifically define what that term means, and I mean really get into the specifics we'll just go round and round posting photos that prove both our points.....

 

Nor I believe does anyone else on here. We all have different views and it is healthy to share them. I welcome your input, but I do not welcome the constant attrition of argument for the sake of it.

 

Interestingly, pretty much all the 'debates' you've started in this way have been about aspects which have no definitive answer - for example the fire extinguishers, the tyres, oh I can't even remember what else now.

 

Take for example tyres - you'll never win us over to your way of thinking because:

 

1) we don't really understand what your thinking is, other than the opposite of what any of us put forward in the way of information at any moment in time, and

2) most of us are already fully aware of the variety of tyres used during WW2 - caused in the main by severe shortages in certain theatres. We are also fully aware that the normal / standard / most common tyre pattern was the bar tread, and strange as it may seem I believe this is the cheapest and most readily available 7.50 x 20 tyre available in the UK (unlike maybe the USA).

 

I for one would be delighted to see a truck on any combination of tyres at a show, we've all seen the photos and variety is the spice of life.

 

And while I'm on in public - please consider more carefully your responses to threads such as Vulture's efforts at assembling a database of CCKW photographs - he does have a day job you know, which sort of precludes him from putting on his SUPERANORAK and collating all the information you suggest.

 

Oh yes I remember now - what's under the bonnet? Well yes of course we know of your view that an engine that hasn't been fully reconditioned is likely to be a pile of worthless scrap and shouldn't be considered worthy of a place under the bonnet of a restored GMC, but for many of us an engine can be considered perfectly serviceable with plenty of running hours left in it, and would only require rebuild if it started to show signs that it needs it.

 

Your input is very welcome, but please accept that we don't need to argue over everything - it is enough to exchange different views and make our own minds up.

 

You probably won't be aware of it (and maybe the younger members on here won't either), but Monty Python had a blackmail TV game show sketch in which they showed progessively more of a compromising photo to the audience while a money clock ran up in the background. The host waited by a telephone until the chosen victim got cold feet and phoned in to stop the clock and pay up!

 

I can just imagine your idea of this show:

(p.s. nice pics of those trucks - keep them coming!)

 

 

Edited September 2, 2012 by N.O.S.

[deadline]

What many may see as an argument is really, truly nothing more than a discussion. A discussion where two, or several people debate a topic is what the hobby needs. And discussing the the gray areas is the only way to turn them from gray to black and white.

 

If I knew the concrete, provable answer to tires I would post it and we would all agree. I think I have done that. But as in any discussion others will offer their opinions/facts and the debate will continue. How is that a bad thing? How is that negative? Why is it seen as unwelcome?

 

If the open discussion of things like the costs of a CCKW, the type of tires on a CCKW, or the brand of fire extinguishers used on CCKWs/Chevys and other topics is not welcome then it is a sad day. I enjoy conversing with many people here, and I have learned a lot.

 

The failing point generally is that one party sees the questioning of their information as an attack. Nothing is farther from the truth. I think my captions for the photos with tires are humorous, not hateful or an attack, but highlighting my point of view. It really doesn't take me long to gather photos or look up information to post. I have a fairly good memory and know how to use computers quite well. So its nothing for me to grab several sources, edit, and post. Windows 7 has a great 'Snip it' tool that makes copying information super quick and easy.

 

As for the photo blog.. I offered valid constructive advice. Feel free to ignore it. But there is a difference between ordinary and extraordinary. I would like to think that people would strive for the latter than the former. Sometimes an outside opinion is what is needed to clarify the difference.

 

I welcome the advise just given to me... I will give it consideration and thought. I may not make the huge change that some may expect, but it will roll it around in my noggin for a bit.

[deadline]

If I may clarify me 'authenticity' comment... as a reenactor the term 'authentic' is the bane of any conversation.

 

Authentic as is 'factory issued'?

 

Authentic as is 'field modified'?

 

Authentic as is 'here's a photo of it, with no context'?

 

That's why I said that 'authentic' needs to be specific. The 'authentic' or factory supplied tire for a CCKW is an NDT. I have not seen the term 'bar tread' in any information I have. It is also, 'authentic' to have a mix of NDT an other types of tires. The TMs DO address this, explicitly.

 

As I have posted, I cannot even find a part number for a tire. Granted while at work I don't have my entire digital collection at my fingertips... but is there an FSN or GM part number for the NDT tire? The SNLs don't seem to have one.

 

I find this little bit on minutia very interesting. Just about every part on the CCKW is cataloged... except the tires!

 

I know some may see this as beating a dead horse and then pulverizing the bones into dust, then spreading the dust to the four winds.

 

I find it very interesting to the point of humorous.

[N.O.S.]

Spread away :-D , everyone's in the post war bar tonight for the fresh barrel of Deep Bronze Green ale.

 

With regard to 'authentic' - I think you'll find that M5Clive was referring to tyre SIZE, not tread pattern :whistle: - wasn't it you in a subsequent post who started arguing (sorry, discussing!) tread pattern authenticity? Has anyone suggested your examples are not authentic?

 

There doesn't seem to be any issue here with what is or is not authentic - but is it not reasonable to work on the basis that the most authentic tyre by virtue of sheer numbers used and photographic evidence during the war must be the bar tread? So it is not surprising to see most surviving vehicles running these tyres (bear in mind the majority of GMCs are restored to 'European theatre' condition, not 'as used in USA' condition).

 

I do hope you'll excuse my use of the Y in tyre instead of I, and RE in theatre instead of er.... :blush:

 

Sorry but must go - I have to re-cut the tread on a set of worn up bar treads tonight with a nail file.

[HWade]

Hi N.O.S

 

I am not sure where the trucks were when the pictures were taken, but you could well be right, might have been the US or even Australia. Although the pic with the workshop trailer, could well have been the US. I have to admit that when I do change the tyres on the Tractor unit I am still not sure what to put on it, the ride on a road tyre would be allot better. Howard.

[M5Clive]

With regard to 'authentic' - I think you'll find that M5Clive was referring to tyre SIZE, not tread pattern :whistle:

 

 

I was indeed and I thought I had made that clear which is why I purposely included a contemporary picture of a CCKW 352 on civilian tyres within my post, but I think this got totally overlooked.

 

Besides, i've given up trying to have a measured discussion on the matter when their are so much more important things I could be doing.................like cleaning out the U-bend on the sink.............!

[Degsy]

A previous member used to 'discuss' topic's in a similar manner to you Deadline............the power's that be invited him to leave the forum:wave:

[N.O.S.]

A better solution? We could try to find a way to discuss topics without causing or taking offence - that way we can all learn from each other and who knows, maybe even have a laugh along the way.

 

:tup::

[deadline]

Going by the SNL for the G506 I posted is seems there is a very wide selection of tires authorized for (at least) the G506.

 

The CCKW SNL does not give such a list for the G508. SNL-G-508 in mute on any tire information.

 

Since the rims/axles are identical, one could assume that you could go down to 6.5x20 6ply or up to 8.25x20 (but only as a single tire on the rears).. but since a CCKW empty is more than a loaded Chevy I would bump up the pressure 2-5PSI to account for the extra weight.

 

We do know that 9.5x20s will work as its done quite often... although quite noticeable and you will incur some steer tire running on the frame.

 

Asked to leave? For posting relevant information? Seems that only 2-3 people may have misunderstood what my posts have said.

 

Don't clog up the forum, but PM me as to why.

[HWade]

I may be wrong, but I was told that if you decided to run 900 x 20 tyres on a jimmy that you would not have a rubbing problem with the rear tyres if the inner wheels were Duck wheels. Does this mean anything to some one. I have not used a duck wheel so could not say if the dish or offset was different to a standard GMC rim. Howard.

[Degsy]

I think the DUKW rim is 18" fitted with an 11.00 tyre so I can't see that working except by fitting them all round as per the pontoon truck.

[HWade]

Hello Degsy

 

Thanks for that, Ive never had alot to do with a DUKW so unsure of the rim size.Thanks Howard

[Degsy]

Hi Howard, you're welcome. I think there has been discussion on here before about fitting 9.00s, try the search option.

I don't know if you have checked the price but they are pretty expensive and availability seems to be a bit iffy.