Masseyboy89 Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 I have been browsing the mod sales website for FV432's. Can anyone tell me, why is it they remove the smoke dischargers and wont sell the vehicles with them on? Is it not possible to deactivate them or is it just easier for them to remove them all together and save the hassle? I'm guessing that's what the problem is with them? Simon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidewinder Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Withams seem to classify them, rightly or wrongly, as 'firearms' and therefore remove them to avoid breaking the law in supplying them to the general public. As you say, its easier for Withams to remove them altogether and play it safe from a legal point of view. In my experience as well, they don't seem too concerned if their policy's lose them the odd sale, there's always plenty of buyers around. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masseyboy89 Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share Posted March 30, 2011 Bugger - I meant to post this in 'I maybe stupid, but......' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masseyboy89 Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share Posted March 30, 2011 Withams seem to classify them, rightly or wrongly, as 'firearms' and therefore remove them to avoid breaking the law in supplying them to the general public. As you say, its easier for Withams to remove them altogether and play it safe from a legal point of view. In my experience as well, they don't seem too concerned if their policy's lose them the odd sale, there's always plenty of buyers around. James Thanks James, Its a shame they cut them off, but I can see why they do it. I guess there is not a way around it? I suppose it wouldn't be impossible to fabricate something that looks pretty similar. Simon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Simon, They don't cut them off, they just unbolt them and throw them in a stillage. I guess they get sent for scrap, or maybe returned to the MoD? Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidewinder Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 I could be wrong, but as I understand it, if you were to make your own 'mock-up' smoke dischargers out of wood etc, then in order to comply with the VCR Act then (technically) you'd have to paint them in bright neon colours, even though the real things themselves wouldn't.. make sense of that if you can... I think people on the forum have looked into getting some made in the past and apparently the shape actually makes them quite hard/expensive to reproduce. A shame really, as I'd love a set to finish off my 432. As for buying a pair off Withams, I think even if you had the correct licence, they probably wouldn't be interested, the average individual collector to them is a very small fish, compared to some of the international aid agencies etc, that they sell to in bulk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk3iain Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 I think I am right in that they are classed as section 5 ie prohibited as they are multi barrel! Special branch inspected a Chieftain I was importing from Belgium once to make sure the main gun was deactivated but ignored the smoke dischargers, so If anyone is after a pair for a Chieftain:whistle: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masseyboy89 Posted March 31, 2011 Author Share Posted March 31, 2011 I could be wrong, but as I understand it, if you were to make your own 'mock-up' smoke dischargers out of wood etc, then in order to comply with the VCR Act then (technically) you'd have to paint them in bright neon colours, even though the real things themselves wouldn't.. make sense of that if you can... I think people on the forum have looked into getting some made in the past and apparently the shape actually makes them quite hard/expensive to reproduce. A shame really, as I'd love a set to finish off my 432. As for buying a pair off Withams, I think even if you had the correct licence, they probably wouldn't be interested, the average individual collector to them is a very small fish, compared to some of the international aid agencies etc, that they sell to in bulk. That's a shame - I guess its just one of those things! Something I never understood, don't replica guns that don't shoot anything need to be those ridiculous colours? Why is it that deactivated guns don't need painting? After all nothing looks more like the real thing.... Than the real thing, whether it fires or not! I'd like at some stage an inert M60 or M2 50. Cal to decorate one of my vehicles for shows but don't know where I would stand with the VCR act? Back on the subject of 432's - it looks like someone has gone and bought the whole lot from Witham? I was just looking in the 'direct sales' part of the site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I think I am right in that they are classed as section 5 ie prohibited as they are multi barrel! Special branch inspected a Chieftain I was importing from Belgium once to make sure the main gun was deactivated but ignored the smoke dischargers, so If anyone is after a pair for a Chieftain:whistle: Yes I belive you are correct they come under section 5 of the firearms act. Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff66 Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 smoke dischargers are ok well ferret ones are if u search forum been discussed a few times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 smoke dischargers are ok well ferret ones are if u search forum been discussed a few times I will think that you will find that they have been deactive by disconecting/removal of the wiring firing system and a slot machined in the discharger body. Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff66 Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 no, smoke dischargers have been discussed at acpo level and are not sect 5 they do not need to have slots machined etc,and i have letter from lewis firearms dept confirming previous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 no, smoke dischargers have been discussed at acpo level and are not sect 5 they do not need to have slots machined etc,and i have letter from lewis firearms dept confirming previous. You may be correct but there is alot of smoke discharges out there with slots and disconected, a freind of mine had to do it when a firearms officer visited. Each firearms department in the diffrent police forces here in the UK are not consitent with applying the firearms act with each other. AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Wales Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 I imported into Australia a Ferret and to comply with Australian regulations the barrels had to be cut (in fact they already had been) and the firing pins welded (even though I understand there is not a firing pin) but the vendor put some weld into the bottom of the barrel which made them happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharky Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 i had to cut the dischargers on our centurion when the proof house man was on site ticketing some other guns and spotted them. broke my heart but a jail sentance would of hurt more Iain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 I've just received this letter from the Home Office in response to my request for advice on the legality of Smoke Grenade Launchers: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reference: T4323/11 5 April 2011 Dear Mr Michael Thank you for your e-mail of 7 March about smoke grenade dischargers. As you may know, some types of launching equipment are subject to control under section 5(1)(ae) of the Firearms Act 1968 (as amended) - ‘any rocket launcher, or any mortar, for projecting a stabilised missile, other than a launcher or mortar designed for line-throwing or pyrotechnic purposes or as signalling apparatus’. Ultimately, only a court can decide on the status of any particular weapon but it is our view that many smoke grenade dischargers can be regarded as pyrotechnic launchers and, as such, they would not be subject to control under the Firearms Act. Yours sincerely M Young --------------------------------------------------- Based on that advice (and noting the understandable comment about the courts) I'd be happy to have live dischargers fitted with a copy of the letter in the vehicle. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff66 Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 there you go!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff66 Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 (edited) as this seems to run and run will post the letter i have at weekend Edited April 6, 2011 by griff66 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 Very interesting, there is no way a smoke grenade could be described as a stabilised missile! As they say, it would be for a court to decide but the court would take that wording as guidance in any decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masseyboy89 Posted April 6, 2011 Author Share Posted April 6, 2011 Very interesting, seems like a bit of a dark area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike65 Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 If nothing else the letter will throw up a smoke screen. Sorry could not resist. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masseyboy89 Posted April 6, 2011 Author Share Posted April 6, 2011 If nothing else the letter will throw up a smoke screen. Sorry could not resist. Mike :rotfl: - very good! Simon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Im investigating having some cast / reproduced in a lighter material. Likely some kind of foam core with a resin over the top. Doing so will make them light for postage and cheap to make. Any expressions of interest? R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtreme Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 put me down for 5 sets if price right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 put me down for 5 sets if price right You can not import them, RIF's VCR Act Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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