WW1 Thornycroft restoration

[Stormin]

Indeed... Says TCL (definate) and then "F" ?

 

Appears to be some sort of H in front of the T by quite a margin but looks a bit out of place so might not be anything..

 

Surely that "T" is an I.

 

"HICLF" Is what I read. I was imagining it may read HICLEAR, and maybe a chassis code for extended dumb irons to raise the chassis frame for extra ground clearance as opposed to a standard chassis with a "straighter" front dumb iron.

[Asciidv]

I was a bit disappointed to see you using a 'modern' edge finder to assist with your machining operations. I had imagined that if you machined whilst wearing a flat cap you would complement it by using a piece of 'fag paper' to find your work piece edge!.

 

 

 

 

Used since the dawn of machine tools it still gets you to within a thou and and half. The alternative to the device shown in the previous post is an electonic edge finder. A 'beep' and an LED shows when you have made contact with the metal. The advantage with this type of device is that you can work in all 3 axes, but it is of course restricted to electrically conductive materials. For non-conductors - well that is when the 'fag paper' is used.

 

 

Edited August 22, 2013 by Asciidv

[Minesweeper]

Further hard wire brushing but using a rotary electric drill, this time, has revealed a lot more detail of the chassis number - and also pleasingly, the number of the original engine fitted to this chassis. What we thought was the chassis number is in fact the middle letters of the word "vehicle" - but we were reading them upside down! We can now read "Engine 5560" to the right in the pictures and then to the left of that is the word "Vehicle" - under that we believe the abbreviation "no." is there for "number" and under that again - but with the crack going right through it is the actual chassis number which is "7334" .

 

 

[nz2]

Reading upside down letters as numerals. We all get confussed, muddled and lead astray at times.

The layout of that stamping is a futher variation on what I have seen in my searches. Never before has there been stamped the word "engine" and its number, and like wise the word "chassis" as a single word.

I have seen the wording "Made in England" and the chassis number, but that is rare, even to find a chassis number stamped by the dumb irons is unusual. As if exported chassis' were not stamped.

In this case the pattern would suggest a a lack of uniformaty from the production line, or was this part of a latter addition, considering the way how the word engine is squashed up.

 

I have some Thornycroft build sheets of the WW1 period, and will search through the records box. Otherwise a call to Beaulieu or The Hampshire Museum service for a copy of the register page. Simon of The Thorncroft Register may also have a copy of that period.

Doug

[Richard Farrant]

Further hard wire brushing but using a rotary electric drill, this time, has revealed a lot more detail of the chassis number - and also pleasingly, the number of the original engine fitted to this chassis. What we thought was the chassis number is in fact the middle letters of the word "vehicle" - but we were reading them upside down! We can now read "Engine 5560" to the right in the pictures and then to the left of that is the word "Vehicle" - under that we believe the abbreviation "no." is there for "number" and under that again - but with the crack going right through it is the actual chassis number which is "7334" .

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi,

I wonder if these numbers were stamped on during a rebuild as the cab with dataplates would have been detached and the numbers were applied in order that it was all identified.

[David Herbert]

You now have the challenge of wether to weld up the crack and lose the chassis number or keep the number and the crack. Have you got a set of punches with the really old style font with which to re stamp it? Is it possible that the army stamped that little essay onto that very accessable part of the truck to save people having to look in different places on different trucks? I can't believe that Thornycroft would have done such a crude job.

 

Also I can't help but wonder how the crack got there without the edge piece being displaced and no obvious other damage.

 

Great to have its identity though.

 

David

[alixcompo]

weld it from the back..??

[fesm_ndt]

Very nice bonus to have found that, congrats :-D

[nz2]

On reflection, I may be wrong. Perhaps what I read as "Made in England "was similar to that stamped on your chassis. Rust, dirt and generally a poor condition of objects located in the field does not help. Trouble is the particular chassis I'm refering to in NZ is still to be transported home, lying over 3 hours away, so I can't run out and clean down the dumb irons to confirm one way or the other. Hopefully this summer will see it moved.

Doug

[Minesweeper]

We have had quite a productive day today. The plan was to get everything out from our spare parts pile, tow the Thorny chassis out. Take off the Peerless chassis and put that back and put the Thorny chassis into the shed ready to begin the strip down. It nearly all went according to plan but we ran out of time to get the Peerless chassis back so that is still sitting on the Thorny. A job for another day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Getting the Thorny out was quite a squeeze. We had to jack the chassis around to get it pointing in the right direction. Picking it up was a little difficult as well as the axle was not very well attached to the chassis.

 

 

 

 

 

We got it in to the shed without any bother and with a couple of inches spare. We didn't have time to tidy up the spare parts pile either s that is also a job for another day.

[Gordon_M]

Lovely - can't wait for more progress.

 

I was wondering about the unusual bracing on top - till I realised it was the Peerless.

[BSM]

Second gordon's motion as they say. Great set of interesting images per usual and looks like you had a good morning's "work out". Who needs a gym! Another milestone reached. Rod

[Minesweeper]

We have had quite a busy few days, getting things moved into position ready to start on the chassis (with a gap in between to go to the GDSF). With the departure of the JCB we had to move the Peerless chassis off the Thornycroft by hand and get it out of the way behind the shed. A good opportunity to practice basic physics.

 

The photos are fairly self explanatory. First we used rollers to bring the Peerless forwards on top of the Thorny until we got to the point of balance where we used the chain block to pick it up and drop it on to a trolley

 

 

 

 

As there were only the three of us we roped in a passer by who was only too happy to help.

 

 

 

The chassis was really very heavy so we had to be quite careful not to drop it on anything delicate (like a foot).

 

 

 

Now on two trolleys we pushed it around the back, using sheets of steel on the gravel to allow it to roll

 

 

 

Once it was as close as we could get it, we lifted it on end then levered it the last few feet into position. Now against the spare Thorny we put it up on blocks and secured it to stop it landing on anybody. I wonder how long it will be before we get it down and rebuild it?

 

Edited September 1, 2013 by Minesweeper

[Minesweeper]

The next step was to empty the old back axle case of oil and other debris.

 

 

After scooping most of the “oil” out we left the drain plug off and left it to drain.

 

 

Steve then made a start on the chassis restoration by bending the tow hook back into shape. We packed it with fire bricks, got it red hot and lent on it until it went back into shape.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Back to normal, and it gives us a couple of extra inches of room to push the chassis back into the shed.

 

[Great War truck]

On pages 95 and 96 of this blog, we were talking about vehicle and engine numbers stamped on the chassis and we did say that we had the front half of another chassis and that we would look for the numbers on that one.

 

They have been found but are very badly corroded – although we can see that there is an identical layout there of the particulars in exactly the same positions as on the complete chassis and photographs of which have already been posted.

 

When this half chassis was obtained, it came with the original scuttle – or dashboard – which originally carried two brass plates – one was the Thornycroft Makers Plate which was already missing when it came to us – but still in position was the brass plate on which had been stamped the engine and chassis numbers – and these are quite clear.

 

With the information on the brass plate, it is easy to reconcile that the numbers on the chassis are identical. We have chassis number 5578 and engine number M4 3840

 

 

[Great War truck]

Not a lot of any great excitement going on at the moment. Steve still has to finish off machining the new pistons and complete his pattern for the water pump “onion” – he had hoped to do this earlier this month when the “team” was in Devon – but putting the Dennis into store and setting up the Thornycroft chassis in the shed took much longer than we anticipated. So those two jobs were not completed.

 

Today, we have started to loosen the rusty nuts and bolts holding the chassis together and also those securing the remaining fittings on it – they are not being taken out completely at this stage but that will happen when we all get together again. All the fittings need to come off the frame to prepare it for sand blasting. Everything is very tight and rusted in – but that is not surprising with a chassis nearly 100 years old and after spending most of its life under a Shepherds Hut.

 

These three pictures show the front shackle pins – before work on them and with the nuts and hooks now loosened and ready for final disassembly.

 

 

 

 

These two pictures show one side of the front end – some nuts and bolts had been taken out many years. The remaining ones have been loosened but the bolts left in to support the chassis. Those bolts are tight in their holes and presumably will not free up until the weight is taken off the wheels.

 

 

 

The front stretcher is mainly riveted in – but there is one nut and bolt inserted in place of a rivet on each side. This is part of the original design and was made that way to take and hold a fork bracket for the lights. At the moment – there is no bracket but the nut and bolt was left in – which has now been removed.

 

Rather surprising to have only one nut and bolt to hold the bracket as you would think that the bracket could revolve on the bolt if it is not done up tight enough.

 

 

 

[Great War truck]

With all the bolts at the front end of the chassis now loosened and ready for the final strip down, it was time to move on to the Brakes and Brake rigging – these pictures show what we are faced with.

 

When the lorry chassis was converted or adapted for use for a Shepherds Hut, the hand brake system was left in place – presumably for continuing use to secure the Shepherds Hut from moving. When we bought it, the hand brake lever had disappeared and we hoped that we might have found it in the surrounding bushes – but no luck! The brakes were “on” and to get them off, we just cut the coupling rods each side – and much to our surprise, the brakes just sprang off! So we were able to move the chassis.

 

 

 

 

 

 

These are just four more pictures of all of the hand brake linkage before we attend to it.

 

 

 

 

[Great War truck]

The clevis – or jaws on the front brake rod were removed after the usual application of heat, hammer and chisel and the Dremel – and much to our surprise, the Shaft for the Hand Brake Lever started to move within its Bearing Bracket without too much “heave-ho”. The ends of both the Shaft and the Bearing had received some severe attention in past years with a hammer – not by us, and it was necessary to address the end of the shaft with a file so that it could slide right through the Bearing Bracket

 

 

 

 

 

The drop arm is secured to Brake Shaft with a Key and a Pinch Bolt. The Pinch Bolt had been removed long ago by the looks of it and I think that we shall need the Press to get the drop arm of the shaft. The end of the key has corroded away but most of it still appears to be in situ.

 

The Bearing Bracket is a simple push fit into the chassis frame – but neither extreme heat or the hammer have managed to remove that so far! It will need a draw bar of some kind to get it out as beating it with a hammer will never do the job unless the chassis can be properly supported – my scaffolding pole and wood packing was inadequate!

 

Rather interesting to see that the Part No is stamped on the Shaft and is still visible!

 

 

 

[monty2]

Having seen all the pictures over the last months and seeing the rust on the frame etc only one conslusion VERY BRAVE men with lot of patient :-):-)

[mattinker]

It's nice to see your back at! looking forward to the Thorny rebuild

 

Regards, Matthew

[Great War truck]

With the Bearing Bracket for the Hand Brake Shaft being so difficult to remove, then the only obvious way to move it was to make up a Draw Bar for the purpose. These two pictures show the set up – in situ but before it was all properly squared up and ready for tightening. Just a simple piece of studding with some bits of steel from the Scrap Box and a couple of nuts to suit the studding.

 

 

 

The nuts on the Draw Bar were initially tightened without any heat being applied and it was obvious that the Bracket was not going to shift whilst it was cold – either the threads would strip or the steel would bend.

 

So the Torch was applied and when the whole set up got hot, the bracket was fairly gently tapped from side to side with a biggish hammer – and suddenly the bracket moved an 1/8” in the intended direction. The flame was taken off the job and the Draw Bar nuts tightened as far as possible – the Bracket continued to come out but full withdrawal of it was limited by the small clearance at the end of the Draw Bar set up.

 

So the Draw Bar was removed and we were able to knock the Bracket completely out with the big hammer and with a piece of hard wood between the hammer and the Bracket to save the Bracket from further hammer blow!

 

 

 

 

The cast in part number is visible on the casting.

 

 

[flandersflyer]

just looking at it all though...

it seems that the drop arms and various other components are in better nic than the Dennis....

the forgings have still kept their shape....wheras i noticed with the dennis that various parts had been badly attacked by corrosion...

still got them back though...well done.

[super6]

How thick is the metal on the chassis rails? It certainly survived well in its second life

[Great War truck]

The chassis is still quite thick. One bit on the rear cross member needs attention, but the ret is ok.

 

As mentioned previously, all of the Hand Brake fittings were still on the chassis when we obtained it with the exception of the actual Hand Brake Handle – and now all of the residual bits must be stripped off before the actual naked frame can go for sand blasting. With so much heavy rust, each part is a “fight”, but we really want to get them off whole as some may be used again, and those that are too far gone will serve as useful patterns for the manufacture of replacements. The first of this batch tackled was one of the “forks” or “jaws” as they are described in the Parts Book. The usual tools being the Propane Torch, an angle grinder, a Dremel and an a hammer and chisel were used. We have found that if there is a heavily rusted threaded end part of a bolt protruding through a rusty nut, then the bolt will be a “write-off” in any case, so the rusty threaded end is cut off close to the nut with the angle grinder, the whole thing heated to red-heat and then in most cases, the nut will turn and the bolt will undo as there is no rusty threaded part to be screwed back through the nut.

 

This particular fork, although heavily rusted on the outside is quite sound with enough “meat” remaining so hopefully, it is an original part that can be re-used.

 

 

 

 

This little “cluster” was withdrawn from the chassis in one go – with taking them apart made much easier as we were not working in a confined space. The same process with the previously mentioned tools continues

 

 

 

 

[Great War truck]

These parts, too, look quite “meaty” and hopefully can be used again

 

 

 

 

 

Working along the line, we come to another “fork” – a slightly different pattern – but again, exactly the same process. We managed to reach inside the “fork” with the Dremel to cut off most of the rusted thread before trying to undo it and again this made life easy.