Great War truck Posted November 19, 2013 Author Share Posted November 19, 2013 All were finally removed – in some cases, the cut off shackle pins were still in their fittings but it would be easier to remove these from the fittings if we beat them on something solid – like the anvil! The stripped out back axle was moved into the shed and the clean frame was lowered onto temporary wheels and pushed back into the shed. It proved to be much easier to heat the spring ends and shackles away from the chassis as they could be easily transferred to the anvil for the pins to be knocked out against a firm surface. With the daylight fading again, we were left still with three pins or cut off pins to remove – and this was held over for the next day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon_M Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 More interesting bits, as usual. The chassis end mounts that take the front spring ends - forged, rather than cast, I assume? The shape looks wrong for a casting to take those loads in that configuration. Looks to me that if you had to, you could knock out the rivets and pull the drums off those rear wheels, and make up brand new drums from some forged bar if the originals are too thin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted November 21, 2013 Author Share Posted November 21, 2013 Monday – and another day at it. We still have three shackle pins or bits of shackle pins to remove but we thought that we would turn our attention to the bend in the front of the chassis rail – which was also rather strangely split. The chassis has obviously had a very hard knock sometime during its life. We decided to get the bent part hot and then attempt to straighten it by using a jack and wood packing piece against the opposite corner of the chassis so that influence could be placed on the bend but gently controlled with the use of the jack. We have always been puzzled by the split in the steel but this must be from a manufacturing fault when it was rolled at the Steel Mill all those years ago. The heating and jacking progress worked perfectly – with a bit of occasional assistance from the hammer – and the rail was straight again! The crack will be welded up tomorrow. And then it was back to the final three stuck shackle pins which were also successfully removed as described before. A visit to the Sand Blaster later in the day to arrange for him to pick up the chassis frame and take it back to his works to be done. This not likely to happen for a few days where he appears to be up to his eyes in other pre-arranged work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted November 21, 2013 Author Share Posted November 21, 2013 Our friend Andy C called back yesterday to attend to the crack in the front of the nearside chassis rail. It was ground out and welded together again – all quite straight forward for him. We also took advantage of Andy’s other skills – he was originally a Printer by trade and ended up being very skilled with the associated computer work – in the past, he has prepared the artwork for several of the replacement plates that we have required for the lorries – Instruction and Manufacturer – including reproducing the original Dennis logo of worm and wheel, so that they could be photo etched from his artwork, or used to make replacement Enamel plates . The wheels of the Thorny each carry a brass plate denoting the tyre size required but two of ours are missing. One front and one back. The Dennis ones were also missing and we went through the same process with them to have replacements made and although we had spares for the Dennis made at the time, the Thorny ones are quite different in style and lettering although the numbers are the same, so we will have to start again with those. Interestingly, British Tyres and Wheels were metric whilst American ones were Imperial. The two remaining plates have been taken off the wheels, cleaned up and Andy has taken them away with him so that he has a pattern to copy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon_M Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I've been looking at that split in the chassis, and it is very atypical of a defect in that sort of item - I'd normally expect a laminar defect given the cutting, rolling, and pressing processes. If I had to propose an alternative it would be ordnance damage - a sudden large lump of something heavy applied at great speed ..... Given the history of the chassis it has to be a possibility. Gordon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted November 21, 2013 Author Share Posted November 21, 2013 Completed Artwork. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Herbert Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I've been looking at that split in the chassis, and it is very atypical of a defect in that sort of item - I'd normally expect a laminar defect given the cutting, rolling, and pressing processes. If I had to propose an alternative it would be ordnance damage - a sudden large lump of something heavy applied at great speed ..... Given the history of the chassis it has to be a possibility. Gordon I would agree with you Gordon, but having seen it close up there is no sign of where force has been applied to it anywhere, and no way that I can see for the chassis to be stressed in a way that would make it crack there. That seems to me to only leave a crack/fault in the metal itself. Anyway, it's sorted now! David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted November 28, 2013 Author Share Posted November 28, 2013 Tony collected the new pistons from our old friend and mentor, David H, today after David had honed out the Gudgeon Pin holes in the pistons so that the pins were a firm fit but could still be inserted and rotated smoothly. A fine job done! We are on course now to reassemble the engine over the Christmas break as we planned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flandersflyer Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 (edited) The cracking in the chassis rail is due to `work hardening`...this could be caused by vibration (frequency) over a long period of time...then the belt it obviously recieved at some time was enough to start it off...... more likely though to be down to having been worked (forged/rolled) `cold`...that is to say the material wasn`t hot enough when worked.... cracking like that is a typical sign of `cold forging`....iron is particularly susceptible to this.... iron (unlike steel) is fibreous...if you forge it cold it kind of `splits`....and you can see the strands seperate....its almost like looking at heavy cloth... but anyway, thats what the crack in the frame is all about boys.... Edited November 29, 2013 by flandersflyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted November 29, 2013 Author Share Posted November 29, 2013 The chassis is now back from sand blasting – a very nice job made of it! Priming now being quickly completed before the demon “Rust” strikes again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted November 29, 2013 Author Share Posted November 29, 2013 The Frame has now had one coat of Bondaprimer – after that has completely “cured” in a few days time, it can have a second coat before we start thinking of undercoat. There are no cracks in it anywhere, but it is quite pitted – but nothing that we cannot live with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtskull Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Great stuff! What a magnificent effort to bring a historic truck back from the dead; It must be a great feeling to reach the stage where everything can start going back together. I am really looking forward to following this thread over the coming months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Yes, it certainly feels better to be able to put things together, if only to reduce the amount of stuff on the floor around us! Steve :cheesy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11th Armoured Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 The 'durability' of that old steel never ceases to amaze me, incredible to see how well it 'scrubs up' - fantastic work as usual! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSM Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Yes indeed....echoing other positive comments. Great to see it coming back to life with educated comment from far and wide. Quick curiosity question for any family member. Standard base coat after blasting from our local man is gray or green 2 pack zinc. Based on auto finish supplier advice we then go to an etch followed by spray enamel colour coat for the restoration work to date on WW2 frames etc. Developing a decent flat finish is ongoing. Please advise your paint path for the Thornycroft. Regards... Rod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeePig Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Overnight sandblasting.... good service Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minesweeper Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 (edited) Yes indeed....echoing other positive comments. Great to see it coming back to life with educated comment from far and wide. Quick curiosity question for any family member. Standard base coat after blasting from our local man is gray or green 2 pack zinc. Based on auto finish supplier advice we then go to an etch followed by spray enamel colour coat for the restoration work to date on WW2 frames etc. Developing a decent flat finish is ongoing. Please advise your paint path for the Thornycroft. Regards... Rod Well, I can tell you what we do - but I don't think that the Professionals would necessarily say that we do it correctly! We have followed the same path with the previous four lorries that we have completed and it seems to work! Anybody who has followed our "postings" over the years may remember that when we started on the Dennis, we bought quite a vast quantity of the recognised colour "green" in one litre tins to complete the whole Dennis project. It was ordered in "Satin" but when the first tin was opened some time after it was purchased, we found that we had been supplied with "Gloss" paint which was really quite inappropriate for the lorry. Then we found that the paint manufacturers had ceased trading so there was no recourse to them to get that put right. So another lot of paint was ordered from a another supplier who did a great job in matching the green colour of the "Gloss" with a green "Satin". Bear in mind that "gloss" paint seems to stand up better to any kind of punishment and wear than the soft "satin" does which in turn seems to stand up better than a soft "matt". So we had - and still have a good quantity of that original "gloss" paint. And we have been using that as a final layer of undercoat before the final coats of "satin" are applied. So the whole process. The first coat of Bondaprimer is applied to the newly sand blasted metal surface as quickly as possible after blasting. All of our chassis' have been rust-pitted over the years and whilst the rust has been removed in the sand blasting process and the metal has been left clean, we have never attempted to fill the pitting before painting - that would be a monumental job and after all with a lorry approaching 100 years old, you would expect to see some signs of ageing! We do not have the facility of being able to spray the paint so it is all applied with a brush. There is a lot of "dabbing" with the brush to ensure that all the "pits" are covered and filled. We generally leave the first Bondaprimer coat to really harden off for a few days before applying a second a second coat of it. This is then followed with a coat of recognised grey undercoat - maybe two. With the Dennis, we then followed that with the green "gloss" mentioned above and used this as undercoat which is gently rubbed back when it has dried. The reason for this is that it will be harder than the final "satin" coats of the same colour so should the final coats chip, it will reveal the glossy green which is expected to be more resilient and will be exposed rather than the grey undercoat. At least two coats of the final "satin" are applied - but sometimes three are required to give the depth of colour that we need. As always, we like and accept advice and any comments or suggestions will be very welcomed! Tony Edited December 2, 2013 by Minesweeper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Just wondering. When you paited it the last few days did you have heating or just painted it at out side temps? Doe the low temperature and humidity affect the proces of painting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minesweeper Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Just wondering.When you paited it the last few days did you have heating or just painted it at out side temps? Doe the low temperature and humidity affect the proces of painting? We are very much at the mercy of the elements and have just been very fortunate these last few days when we had a spell of fine weather when the chassis was taken away for sand blasting and then returned afterwards. A damp atmosphere would not help with the painting! The painting is done in the lorry shed with no additional heat. It seems that with everything that we do, we have to fight for space and ideal working conditions. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blastermike Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 hello tony, you have a good system going there, and it works, being a sandblaster/industrial painter obviously spraying is an advantage and easier and quickier, but with that heavy rust pitting and lots of rivets, crossmember edges against the insides of the chassis etc, brushing is the best way to seal these areas, when i blasted my albion chassis i chose to brush my first coat of epoxy then sprayed a second coat, then brushed the first coat of colour then sprayed the second coat of colour in urethane semigloss, and the brush marks were kept to a minimum using a slower thinner, your system of 5 to 6 coats guarantees a good build of paint to protect the steel, i use a high build epoxy on my second coat to achieve this, tony just thought i'd add my two cents worth mate. cheers mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minesweeper Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Thanks, Mike! We are always pleased to have advice or reassurance! Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mammoth Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Mike, probably need to explain to Brits that in Australia & NZ sunlight is an often seen commodity and consequently it's effects on enamel paint systems are very noticable. Unless a vehicle is shedded for 95% of it's life enamel is a waste of time such is the destructive effect of the sun, particularly at higher altitudes (I am at 1,000m). For the old time vehicles I have become an advocate of epoxy enamel (ie hammerite without the hammer effect) as it is versatile in application, can be bought and colour matched locally, and has a high protective factor. After the first season it takes on a sheen, rather than a high gloss so looks the part. First coat on bare metal is epoxy etch primer as this is compatible with all other paint systems and thus leaves your options open. Paint systems are getting ever more technical and some of the old style paints are no longer effective due to the nasties being legislated out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted December 5, 2013 Author Share Posted December 5, 2013 Another load of bits back from Sand Blasting and primed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alixcompo Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Fantastic. Must get you very excited and mark a turning point in the restoration. A solid base to built on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flandersflyer Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Well, I am going to vote Conservative - leave well alone! Barry. if you do it with an argon set....very localised heat= no distortion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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