question Front & rear number plates

[ArtistsRifles]

Given that reflective plates might be mandated by the date of first registration (and nothing the DVLA do to cock up their own systems surprises me any more) - what is to prevent these reflective plates being screwed to strong magnets and thus attached to the body by them??

[TooTallMike]

Given that reflective plates might be mandated by the date of first registration (and nothing the DVLA do to cock up their own systems surprises me any more) - what is to prevent these reflective plates being screwed to strong magnets and thus attached to the body by them??

The plates on our Spartan are attached to metal plates with two hard drive magnets riveted to the rear. They are then stuck to the front and rear bins and are surprisingly hard to pull off!

 

Also remember that, depending on age, the rear plate must be illuminated and all plates must be fitted in the proscribed area.

 

- MG

[griff66]

thats the same layout as my v5 as stated u make a informed decision can i possibly infer that driving a well maintained for example ferret all docs carried with you u would have to have a very bored/anal road traffic copper to give u a hard time over numberplates

[antarmike]

Agreed, I am trying to point out what the law says, not what you can reasonably do without causing yourself problems. The two are often not the same.

 

However the illegal spacing of Civvy Registrations to look like military two number/two letter/ two number plates is more likely to land you in it. Automatic number plate recognition technology is getting more widespread all the time, and those numbers that the computer cannot make out, are scrutinised by human eye to work out how the legal layout/ typeface etc has been messed around with to mis represent a number.

 

Although more associated with people playing with Personalised plates to make them read, how they want them to, you could well get a visit if someone works out you have wrongly grouped characters for whatever reason., including trying to make them look military.

Edited February 28, 2011 by antarmike

[scammell 7377]

ok, so i have civvy black and whites on lightining (and on the living van) can i also display 02 BD 10 aswell i would argue that as it has not been in use sinse 1989 its not a valid plate and in civvy terms never was your thoughts please gents . andy

[79x100]

There are tens of thousands of vehicles running with 'age related' numbers which have been issued on the basis of authentification of the date of manufacture. This applies to vehicles which have been imported to the UK as well as those that lost their numbers when the records were centralised.

 

I've never heard any suggestion that these vehicles, including those with two-letter, four digit combinations from the 1920s (such as DS 1234 etc) should be on reflective plates and indeed I've never seen one like it.

 

Is it not the case that where age related numbers are issued, whether with suffix / prefix letter or not, a fictitious 'assumed' date of first registration is allowed ? I have always had the idea that in their own simplistic way, the authorities are more concerned to stop people pretending their vehicles are newer than they really are, whereas most of us want them to be older !

 

In the real world, this seems to be something that doesn't cause problems but playing with the spacing will certainly attract attention.

[Willyslancs]

Interesting thread .

Edited March 1, 2011 by Willyslancs

[TooTallMike]

Interesting thread .(my jeep's plate , brass bolts painted black hold the plates on, )

Interesting photo and please remember you posted it so you are likely now to receive some scrutiny. If I were a traffic cop I would be drawn to your vehicle. The spacing of your number plate would immediately have me wondering what else on the vehicle had been done in an attempt to simulate 'authenticity' rather than with regard to the regs. As far as I understand it you are not permitted to space the four numbers as two pairs of two.

 

Why draw attention to yourself?

 

Just my 10c.

 

- MG

[antarmike]

Interesting photo and please remember you posted it so you are likely now to receive some scrutiny. If I were a traffic cop I would be drawn to your vehicle. The spacing of your number plate would immediately have me wondering what else on the vehicle had been done in an attempt to simulate 'authenticity' rather than with regard to the regs. As far as I understand it you are not permitted to space the four numbers as two pairs of two.

 

Why draw attention to yourself?

 

Just my 10c.

 

- MG

 

You can space them as two letters above two numbers above another two numbers, but on a horizontal line all the figures should be in one block.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2001/561/schedule/3/made

 

See diagrams 7a and 7b

 

I have to agree the front plate of this jeep is not to requirements and could attract unwanted attention.

Edited March 1, 2011 by antarmike

[antarmike]

I believe it is safe to say the spirit of the law is that black and white plates are required pre-1st Jan 1973, and retro-reflectives after that date. Poorly worded law aside, the intent is clearly that vehicles manufactured when B&Ws were the norm are entitled to have them. If a 432 had been available to civilians at its original time of manufacture it would have been fitted with B&Ws.

 

On another tack, does the law specify 'registered by whom'? The British armed services operate registration systems. Does this not mean a 432 has been registered on or before X date? Does the law specify 'registered in the UK by DfT' ?

 

- MG

The law says that whether to use black and white or Retroreflective white and yellow on a pre 1973 vehicle , is the keepers choice and you therefore don't have to use Black and white plates on such vehicles.

 

Remember the requirement for reflective plates is to do with safety, and visibility. Black and white plates are not available as aids to visibility when such a vehicle is parked on the road at night.

 

This might influence someone decision, it isn't all about appearance, there is a safety aspect.

Edited March 1, 2011 by antarmike

[utt61]

ok, so i have civvy black and whites on lightining (and on the living van) can i also display 02 BD 10 aswell i would argue that as it has not been in use sinse 1989 its not a valid plate and in civvy terms never was your thoughts please gents . andy

 

As far as I know you would be OK with this, since the military registration is meaningless and hence is just part of the decoration of the vehicle. Others in this forum may know better, though.

 

As a matter of interest, the law requires you to display the reg no in the correct layout and in the correct place, but does it prevent you putting lots of registration plates on your vehicle (one is real, the rest are just the livery, honest officer). Covering the front and rear of your car with different number plates might be a way to fool speed cameras!

[antarmike]

As far as I know you would be OK with this, since the military registration is meaningless and hence is just part of the decoration of the vehicle. Others in this forum may know better, though.

 

As a matter of interest, the law requires you to display the reg no in the correct layout and in the correct place, but does it prevent you putting lots of registration plates on your vehicle (one is real, the rest are just the livery, honest officer). Covering the front and rear of your car with different number plates might be a way to fool speed cameras!

 

Having more than one DVLA issued registration mark on a vehicle is illegal.

[andym]

Is it not the case that where age related numbers are issued, whether with suffix / prefix letter or not, a fictitious 'assumed' date of first registration is allowed ?

 

I refer you to paragraph 18 of the Act quoted previously in this thread. Vehicles constructed before 1 January 1973 shall be treated as though they were first registered before that date. In other words, there is no requirement for reflective plates on a vehicle constructed (not first registered!) before 1 January 1973.

 

Andy

[holte999]

Having more than one DVLA issued registration mark on a vehicle is illegal.

Does that mean if they are not issued by the DVLA you can put lookalike number plates all over your vehicle ?:nut:

[scammell 7377]

Does that mean if they are not issued by the DVLA you can put lookalike number plates all over your vehicle ?:nut:

i was thinking just that , as it was not issued by dvla id be ok :D

[antarmike]

....As a matter of interest, the law requires you to display the reg no in the correct layout and in the correct place, but does it prevent you putting lots of registration plates on your vehicle (one is real, the rest are just the livery, honest officer). Covering the front and rear of your car with different number plates might be a way to fool speed cameras!

 

Does that mean if they are not issued by the DVLA you can put lookalike number plates all over your vehicle ?:nut:

i was thinking just that , as it was not issued by dvla id be ok :D

"Vehicle Excise and Registration act 1994" A person is guilty of an offence if he forges, or fraudulently alters, uses, lends or allows to be used by another person, a registration mark. This makes it an offence to put a genuine registration mark from another vehicle onto your own.

 

More likely the offence if non genuine registration plates are affixed may be "Road Vehicles (display of registration marks) regulations 2001" Where S43 says it is an offence for the person driving (or if not being driven the keeper) to obscure a registration mark, or render or allow it to become not easily distinguishable.

 

This surely covers plastering pseudo registration plates over a vehicle making it very difficult to spot the genuine one!

Edited March 1, 2011 by antarmike

[antarmike]

I refer you to paragraph 18 of the Act quoted previously in this thread. Vehicles constructed before 1 January 1973 shall be treated as though they were first registered before that date. In other words, there is no requirement for reflective plates on a vehicle constructed (not first registered!) before 1 January 1973.

 

Andy

 

S18 relates to "Saving for vehicles constructed before 1st January 1973"

It relates to the Finance act 1996, in which 25 year old vehicles vehicles became Tax exempt, and ammended in the Finance Act 1998, s. 17. when this was changed from 25 year exempt to a fixed date Historic vehicle nil taxation class.

 

I read S18 as confirming that irrespective of when the vehicle was actually first registered, it will be eligible for free tax, and Historic Vehicle status if manufactured before 1.1.1973.

 

It is not, I do not think, to be read in terms of which type of plate can be fitted. It relates directly to the Finance act where it is tying up loose ends as to which taxation class a vehicle falls into, (and hence VED rate is to be paid) if that vehicle was constructed before 1.1.73 but not registered until later.

 

The insertion of section 18 into The Road Vehicles (Display of Registration Marks) Regulations 2001, was as a result of the Finance act 1996, s. 19, and amended by the Finance Act 1998, s. 17.

Edited March 1, 2011 by antarmike

[andym]

It is not, I do not think, to be read in terms of which type of plate can be fitted. It relates directly to the Finance act where it is tying up loose ends as to which taxation class a vehicle falls into, (and hence VED rate is to be paid) if that vehicle was constructed before 1.1.73 but not registered until later.

 

I agree that may well have been the intention, but its inclusion ensures that any vehicle constructed before 1 January 1973 is automatically viewed as having been registered before 1 January 1973, regardless of the actual date of first registration. Accidental loophole or not, that's what the words say!

 

Andy

[antarmike]

Let's leave that one to the courts......

Edited March 1, 2011 by antarmike

[ArtistsRifles]

Something on this has niggled me so I went digging - I own a Saab Sport (two stroke type 96 of the sort used for rallying by the great Erik Carlsson) which was imported. Checking the paperwork that came with it I found:

 

Date of construction: 1963

Date of registration in UK: 1974

 

Number plates fitted to it: Pressed aluminium - silver letters on black background.

[Metroman]

Something on this has niggled me so I went digging - I own a Saab Sport (two stroke type 96 of the sort used for rallying by the great Erik Carlsson) which was imported. Checking the paperwork that came with it I found:

 

Date of construction: 1963

Date of registration in UK: 1974

 

Number plates fitted to it: Pressed aluminium - silver letters on black background.

 

Oh no, I think we need to take cover :drive:

[mike65]

I believe that black and silver are permitted on vehicles built before 1 Jan 1973.

Or at least that is what the suppliers say on their websites.

 

ALTERNATIVLY

 

There is an easy way to resolve this.

You need 3 number plates for each end.

1. Black letters with reflective backing (white front, yellow rear)

2. One set of nice black with silver (or white) letters

3. Ome set of mil plates.

 

Mount said plates on a triangular frame with a central spindle.

Add a motor and mount in a frame that allows one number plate to be seen.

Add switch to floor near your foot.

 

Drive around with the black and silver ones showing.

If plod pulls you over and comes to the window and says, "There appears to be a problem with your number plates sir"

You reply "They were OK earlier, let me have a look"

As you get out stand on switch to rotate number plate to correct position.

 

Worked for Mr Bond.

 

Mike

[Metroman]

I believe that black and silver are permitted on vehicles built before 1 Jan 1973.

Or at least that is what the suppliers say on their websites.

 

ALTERNATIVLY

 

There is an easy way to resolve this.

You need 3 number plates for each end.

1. Black letters with reflective backing (white front, yellow rear)

2. One set of nice black with silver (or white) letters

3. Ome set of mil plates.

 

Mount said plates on a triangular frame with a central spindle.

Add a motor and mount in a frame that allows one number plate to be seen.

Add switch to floor near your foot.

 

Drive around with the black and silver ones showing.

If plod pulls you over and comes to the window and says, "There appears to be a problem with your number plates sir"

You reply "They were OK earlier, let me have a look"

As you get out stand on switch to rotate number plate to correct position.

 

Worked for Mr Bond.

 

Mike

 

Yes, but he had Miss Moneypenny to 'fall back on' :shocked:

[antarmike]

And I think the tyre shredders poking out from his Aston Martin, took him over 2.55m wide!

 

So maybe he isn't a good role mode......

[nz2]

Interesting reading through the hassles of rego plates in foreign land!

A question for Mike therefore.

Do you have exemption of the use of manufactured plates where they can not be suitable displayed. I think here of cars like the Jag D and E types where the numbers were painted on to the body work on the front. Also on rally competition cars.

 

In this country (NZ) one plate must be original the other can be a replacement. I've used one I painted up for many years after losing a plate.

Also this also allows people carrying small scooters or similar across the rear of a vehicle, to display a plate number, using a plate of their own manufacture.

Doug