question Front & rear number plates

[Metroman]

As the FV432 is now registered, I would like to get some in keeping plates, any idea's :-D

[barrynevuk]

I have had some magnetic plates made, that I just put over the military number. They are on flexible magnetic material, and work very well.

[Metroman]

I have had some magnetic plates made, that I just put over the military number. They are on flexible magnetic material, and work very well.

 

Well that's fab, didn't even think about it.. been doing tests for a client on the same stuff. Think I'll need to make some of my own :cool2:

[barrynevuk]

The rear 1 is slightly smaller than ideal, I had it made to the dimensions of the military plate, but it does the job. Front was no problem, plenry of space.

[antarmike]

Registration plates for new registrations and new plates fitted after 1st Sept 2001 requires Retro-reflective Yellow and white plates, and these must comply with and be marked with the BS Au145d mark.

 

Vehicles registered between 1. 1. 73 and 1st Sept 2001 must also be retro-reflective but bear the mark BS Au 145a.

 

I cannot see how this can be achieved by using magnetic material to make up a plate.

Edited February 27, 2011 by antarmike

[griff66]

chap just put on what you want :cool2:

[antarmike]

chap just put on what you want :cool2:

 

Surely you are not encouraging law breaking?

[Metroman]

Registration plates for new registrations and new plates fitted after 1st Sept 2001 requires Retro-reflective Yellow and white plates, and these must comply with and be marked with the BS Au1545d mark.

 

Vehicles registered between 1. 1. 73 and 1st Sept 2001 must also be retro-reflective but bear the mark BS Au 145a.

 

I cannot see how this can be achieved by using magnetic material to make up a plate.

 

Ok, sounds interesting. I'm going to put this to DVLA & let them answer the question - this could be a can open a can of worms :cool2:

 

 

Edited February 27, 2011 by Metroman

[antarmike]

Ok, sounds interesting. I'm going to put this to DVLA & let them answer the question - this could be a can of worms :cool2:

Note corrected typo in my original post it should have read ...... 1st Sept 2001 requires BS Au 145d mark.

 

Not a can of worms, fairly straightforward really, you would do best best to refer to refer directly to the legislation, as advice given on here is not always very authoritative :-

 

"Road vehicles (display of registration marks) regulations 2001" where see particularly Regulation 10 and Schedule 2

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2001/561/contents/made

 

Note size of plate, dimensions etc also specified, you cannot make a registration plate smaller to fit a given space, you have to find a place where the correct sized plate will fit.

 

I would have thought it was VOSA and/ or the Police you need to talk to not DVLA.

Edited February 27, 2011 by antarmike

[Zero-Five-Two]

As you're in Maidstone, you could have a word with Roy at Serck Intertruck on St Michaels Close Aylesford 01622 882228. They can make up any type and shape of plate, and Roy is pretty good at what is and is not legal.

[ArtistsRifles]

From the same web link AM posted:

Saving for vehicles constructed before 1st January 1973

 

18. For the purposes of these Regulations a vehicle which was first registered on or after 1st January 1973 shall be treated as if it was first registered before that date if—

 

(a)

it is an exempt vehicle for the purposes of paragraph 1A(1) of Schedule 2 to the Act(1), or

 

(b)

not being such a vehicle, it was constructed before 1st January 1973.

 

Reading this it looks to me as if anything CONSTRUCTED prior to 1973 is exempt from the reflective plate requirements - I think this would cover some, if not all, of the 432's ???

[griff66]

get d.i.s year see what your options are and make an informed decision most road traffic officers i see when out in the ferret just want a nose round it looking at numer plates just does not come in to it at all:)

[antarmike]

It does appearappear at first glance that FV432 production finished in 1971 (I hadn't realised they were that early) so, yes, Black and white plates might be okay, but comments as to size of letters/numbers and how they are laid out on the plate is still relevant as is the requirement as to how the letters and numbers are spaced. Letters must form a block as must the numbers. One follows the other with a separation, or for a square plate the numbers and letters can be split into two groups of three characters, one group above the other. The Year letter (if applicable is part of the Number group and is in the same block, without spaces.)

 

It is not lawful to split numbers and letters in such a way as to try as to simulate a military style plate.

 

You can use Retro reflective Yellow and white plate providing they bear the mark BS AU 145.

 

Edit because I think that is a load of Bovine Do Do's

 

However on re-consideration, a lot of Automotive law is based on "first used on or before", (seat belt law, Lighting regs, MOT Exemptions, HGV driving licence exemptions amongst others)

 

Registration plate law is defined in terms of "first registered on or before".

 

These two terms are not the same.

 

A military vehicle is not registered whilst owned by the MOD. If a FV432 is released from the MOD and registered by a civilian , this is, in legal terms, the first registration.

 

Date into Service DIS equates to "First use on or before".

 

DIS does not equate to "First registered on or before"

 

I stick with my earlier post that this is the First registration of the FV432 and therefore Yellow/ white Retroreflective registration plates complying with and marked BS Au 145d are required in this instance.

Edited February 28, 2011 by antarmike

[andym]

 

However on re-consideration, a lot of Automotive law is based on "first used on or before", (seat belt law, Lighting regs, MOT Exemptions, HGV driving licence exemptions amongst others)

 

Registration plate law is defined in terms of "first registered on or before".

 

These two terms are not the same.

 

 

 

.. and just to add confusion, this piece of legislation uses the term "first constructed before". Wonderful, isn't it? :-)

 

Andy

[TooTallMike]

I believe it is safe to say the spirit of the law is that black and white plates are required pre-1st Jan 1973, and retro-reflectives after that date. Poorly worded law aside, the intent is clearly that vehicles manufactured when B&Ws were the norm are entitled to have them. If a 432 had been available to civilians at its original time of manufacture it would have been fitted with B&Ws.

 

On another tack, does the law specify 'registered by whom'? The British armed services operate registration systems. Does this not mean a 432 has been registered on or before X date? Does the law specify 'registered in the UK by DfT' ?

 

- MG

[griff66]

this relates to a 64 ferret from v5c front page note 3 declared manufactured 1964, note 4 ,b, date of first registration 1.1.1964,note 4 b,1 date of first registration in uk 1.2 2010 i would use the fact that v5 states date of first registration 1964, as stated in earlier post make a informed decision on numberplate sites it states vehicles manufactured before 1 jan 73 can have blk/siver plates ,MANUFACTURED not date of first registration , ferret manufactured 64 so blk/silver plates apply

Edited February 28, 2011 by griff66

[antarmike]

I believe it is safe to say the spirit of the law is that black and white plates are required pre-1st Jan 1973, and retro-reflectives after that date. Poorly worded law aside, the intent is clearly that vehicles manufactured when B&Ws were the norm are entitled to have them. If a 432 had been available to civilians at its original time of manufacture it would have been fitted with B&Ws.

 

On another tack, does the law specify 'registered by whom'? The British armed services operate registration systems. Does this not mean a 432 has been registered on or before X date? Does the law specify 'registered in the UK by DfT' ?

 

- MG

I have registered Four military vehicles for the first time, and for three of them the registration documents came back with No. of previous keepers 0, date of first registration showed date I registered them. (the forth shows no previous owners even though there is a much earlier registration date)

 

I ran both Matadors and the Explorer on B and W plates, (because that is all I knew at the time).

 

Wouldn't it be nice if UK Motor vehicle law was written in joined up writing, in stead of the haphazard mess we have of similar but different rules depending on which legislation.

 

I am re-assessing the plates I have currently on the Eager Beaver.

 

If the reg has got an age suffix letter, vehicles registered before 1. 1. 73 can have them laid out as

a block of three letters, above a block of three numbers

above a separate age letter on a third row below.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2001/561/schedule/3/made

see diagram 3c

 

This is probably as close a layout as you can legally get to the Old Military rear plate.

Edited February 28, 2011 by antarmike

[griff66]

well i have registered one mv, ferret, at begining of 2010 and on v5c states first registered 1964 ie d.i.s/manufactured date so pre 73 style plates are legal

Edited February 28, 2011 by griff66

[TooTallMike]

To continue the devil's advocate theme - I now have to supply my V5 to have number plates made, so is the supplier technically in breach of law if they supply B&W plates for a vehicle first registered after 1st jan 1973?

 

- MG

[griff66]

just get reg number painted on by signwriter ,what you reckon antarmike?:-D

[andym]

If a 432 had been available to civilians at its original time of manufacture it would have been fitted with B&Ws.

 

On another tack, does the law specify 'registered by whom'? The British armed services operate registration systems. Does this not mean a 432 has been registered on or before X date? Does the law specify 'registered in the UK by DfT' ?

 

- MG

 

There are several pictures in existence of civilian registered 430s with B&W plates, usually for prototype or other testing purposes.

 

The law defines "registered" as the date a vehicle was first registered under the Vehicle Excise Act, so military registration doesn't count.

 

Andy

[Stone]

To continue the devil's advocate theme - I now have to supply my V5 to have number plates made, so is the supplier technically in breach of law if they supply B&W plates for a vehicle first registered after 1st jan 1973?

Don't think so, they could be show plates after all. They only want to see your V5 in Halfords to stop it being quite so trivial to get plates made up for a car you don't own (for reassigning your speeding tickets).

 

I'm pretty confident you'd be committing an offence by using them though, ISTR B&W plates are only legal if they were fitted prior to 2001! If you registered it now (as pointed out above, for the first time) there'd be no way you could have fitted the plates before 2001 so you'd just be making a rod for your own back.

 

I still reckon pressed aluminium plates with retroreflective background material to BS AU 145 look the nads though

 

Stone

[Sidewinder]

While the B&W plates look the job, I think I'd stick with the modern reflective number plates, which does seem to be what the law requires anyway...

 

Unregardless though while they might not look 'as good' why wouldn't we as a hobby want to try and make a good impression to the various authorities by making sure our vehicles are marked up correctly with modern marker boards/number plates/lights etc..

 

Lets face it, if we can all maintain MV's then making some kind of easily removed bracket/fittings for these markings to return the vehicle to original for shows etc really shouldn't be an issue.

[antarmike]

just get reg number painted on by signwriter ,what you reckon antarmike?:-D

I refer the honourable gentleman to my previous answer....

[antarmike]

Re first registration date checking some V5's shows variation in the way DVLA enter information

Above date of first registration shows date into Army service, and Date of first UK registration shows the day I registered it for the first time/

 

 

but here for 1977 built 101 going into RAF service in 1983 the date of first registration and date of first UK registration are the same and show the day the first Civvy owner registered it and got the Y date suffix letter.

 

Clearly they have no consistency in how they enter Information. The relevant date for the plates required is the Date of first UK registration.

Edited February 28, 2011 by antarmike