mikemids Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 advise needed! my morris c8 turns over without the ignition or battery isolation switch even being turned on, but wont fire up? was running fine the other day, went to check it tonight ready for a run to evesham show tomorrow and its gone wrong? even when i turn off all electrics and remove battery key, when i press the starter switch it turns over?? any ideas anyone? was suggested bushes in the starter motor gone causing a short? :argh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Are the 2 terminals on the isolator switch touching? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemids Posted April 11, 2009 Author Share Posted April 11, 2009 Are the 2 terminals on the isolator switch touching? no, i've even removed the wires from the isolation switch and re-connected them therefore by passing it and taking back to how it was originally, dont thinks it the isolation switch as it turns over even without the ignition switch being turned on? it just seems to be by passing all the switches and turning over but not firing regardless, as if power getting to starter motor but not to plugs to get them to ignite? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 it just seems to be by passing all the switches and turning over but not firing regardless, as if power getting to starter motor but not to plugs to get them to ignite? Mike, Some vehicles you can use the starter without having the ignition turned on. I suggest you do turn the ignition on and check you have power to the points, ie remove distributor cap and flick the points, if you do not have a meter. It is difficult to make a diagnosis from afar, but you need to check the basics first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemids Posted April 11, 2009 Author Share Posted April 11, 2009 Mike, Some vehicles you can use the starter without having the ignition turned on. I suggest you do turn the ignition on and check you have power to the points, ie remove distributor cap and flick the points, if you do not have a meter. It is difficult to make a diagnosis from afar, but you need to check the basics first. ok thanks Richard. i'll try that monday, although i'm sure that before it didnt turn over with battery isolation switch turned off, as i fitted it on advise, in case kids climbed in and played with switches, i remember being satisfied that there was no life to anything with the key in my pocket? not the case now, i have to disconnect battery. but, yes i will deffinately try what you suggested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 ok thanks Richard. i'll try that monday, although i'm sure that before it didnt turn over with battery isolation switch turned off, as i fitted it on advise, in case kids climbed in and played with switches, i remember being satisfied that there was no life to anything with the key in my pocket? not the case now, i have to disconnect battery.but, yes i will deffinately try what you suggested. OK Mike, so the master switch was isolating before. I have found some of the plastic type with red keys, can "weld" the contacts together, so without key in, they still make contact. Sounds like this is whats happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemids Posted April 11, 2009 Author Share Posted April 11, 2009 OK Mike, so the master switch was isolating before. I have found some of the plastic type with red keys, can "weld" the contacts together, so without key in, they still make contact. Sounds like this is whats happened. well thats what i'd thought, so i removed the isolation switch and re-connected the wires, it made no difference at all, still turns over? when i ran it the other day it did cut out on me at one point, i tried to restart it but the starter motor kept spinning making a whining noise, i then tapped it lightly and it started fine, thats actually the 2nd time its ever done that, i just put it down the a sticky starter motor? but now that it seems to be getting power without anything turned on makes me wonder if its faulty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 I had this problem with the Dodge, the answer was the wires on the ignition circuit switch. That being the one that actually took power to the coil. They had come loose. The starter on a lot of them as said will turn regardles of the igntion being switched on. Problem being if you then turn the beast over without the ignition powered up you flood the carb, so one problem masks another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goanna Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Mike The other replies have said it's normal behaviour for older vehicles to turn the motor over , even with the ignition switch OFF ..yes, this is completely normal and lots of older cars do it ... My 1946 Dodge ute with the mechanically actuated floor starter motor used to confuse anyone under 25 years old .. they didn't have a clue how to start it .. a good anti theft device ! The starter motor would turn over with Ig switch in the OFF position .. no solenoid is fitted on many older cars ... . Mike in OZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john wheatley (R.I.P.) Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Hi Mike, What are your ammeter readings as you take each step you have described to us? Regards, John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemids Posted April 12, 2009 Author Share Posted April 12, 2009 thanks for replys so far everyone, havent had chance to get back over to the morris to try out idea's etc as was at evesham show all day, but did call in this morning for one last try before i set off and it actually turned over while i wiggled the ignition switch! now i'm quite sure that shouldnt hapen... so my gut feeling is as was suggested the wires to the ignition switch are loose or faulty? however, i cant say until i test out various suggestions later this week, so will post results for further idea's, i'm truly greatfull for everyones input! cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Sounds very like loose wire or switch wearing. Easily neglected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemids Posted April 22, 2009 Author Share Posted April 22, 2009 update... well not 100% sure what was / is wrong, but finally got over to the morris last night, and tried what was suggested about checking the wiring to the ignition switch, seemed ok? then tested a spark on the points, got a lovely unexpected bolt down my arm! so safe to say fine..checked the plugs, looked ok, thought i'd turn it over just to see what happens.....and yes, it fired up a treat!! so realistically, i didnt actually ammend anything! it ran fine, i drove it around the farm yard for 30 mins expecting it to die on me, but no, it ran fine? i pulled the switch about, yanked the wiring to see if it would cut out? nothing, all fine.... the only possible explanation, when i test drove it 2 days prior to it dying on me, it poured with rain, and given the windows dont seal properly, rain gets into the cab, wondering if the electrical system was wet? fingers crossed, taking it out for a 30 mile drive tomorrow night to gain confidence in it as i'm supposed to be taking it to normandy for the 6th! does anyone know what size the fan belt is and where i can get new points and condesor etc, as planning having it all checked over asap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john wheatley (R.I.P.) Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 hello mate, The fan belt is V417, thats a Ferrodo number, btr industries make one but I don't know the part no. Points and condenser I would ask John Walker, if he doesn't have them then he most like knows where to get them. Regards, John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemids Posted April 22, 2009 Author Share Posted April 22, 2009 hello mate,The fan belt is V417, thats a Ferrodo number, btr industries make one but I don't know the part no. Points and condenser I would ask John Walker, if he doesn't have them then he most like knows where to get them. Regards, John. ok thanks John... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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