Guest catweazle (Banned Member) Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Re lined :shocked: whats wrong with dousing in petrol and setting light to them?:rofl: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swill1952xs Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Questions for Bernard (If I may be so bold as to call you by your first name....er......... Sir ) :-D Bein' the nosey git I am......doesn't the area between the seal and the axle stub have any lubricant in it. Common sense says that a minimally greased seal will dry out in a fairly short time? Is the grease for initial lubrication only, or is this the only source of lubrication for the hub? Are the steering swivels oil filled like a Land Rover, and if so does the oil not get in the hub to lubricate both? Is the hub capable of being filled with a heavy oil, like a 140 gear oil, and if so would it provide better lubrication for the seal; improving its life expectancy, and provide cooling for it? Were the original seals made of rubbery stuff like the ones you've fitted, or would they have had something harder as a sealing face? Thinking of a carbon ring seal like a water pump impeller seal, or maybe a rubberised leather seal would have been better, bearing in mind that it has adequate pressure behind it to make a good seal against the axle. The reason I ask all these irritating questions is that I would be worried if that was mine and the seal didn't have a constant source of lubricant to stop it from burning out. I would have thought leather seals would have been better. Presumably the other side doesn't suffer the same problem. Another possibility could be that the seal support ring could be slightly distorted, putting uneven pressure on the seal, causing it both to leak and overheat locally. Above all; I hate recurring mechanical problems. Doing a job twice always pees me off. :argh: Jus' tryin' to be helpful. :-D :n00b: P.S.......... :idea: Spose you could always put a pliable leather washer between the rubber seal and the axle sealing face.............Might work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swill1952xs Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I am overhauling the front brakes on Forceful, I need to find new gaiters for the brake expanders and for the servos, has any one found a source for these or know of a cross referenced part number for something else that uses the same type? Any help on this would be much appreciated. Do you have any dimensions for the gaiters? I have several trucks and trailers around where I work, and may be able to identify one that may be readily available from a repeatable source. I'm thinking of things like the handbrake chamber on our Leyland freighter, or the ones fitted to modern air brake chambers on our trailers. You could try ringing BTR's. They may be able to help you if they can see one in the flesh. (Or rubber) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share Posted March 25, 2009 Re lined :shocked: whats wrong with dousing in petrol and setting light to them?:rofl: Did that to the other side they were so soaked it didn't work, all slimey again after 200 mls, as you and I knew they would be! :coffee: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest catweazle (Banned Member) Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 as you and I knew they would be! :coffee: :rofl:its that modern petrol,5 star would of done it.:-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share Posted March 25, 2009 doesn't the area between the seal and the axle stub have any lubricant in it. Common sense says that a minimally greased seal will dry out in a fairly short time?None at all nor is anything mentioned in the book, common sense was keeping quiet. Is the grease for initial lubrication only, or is this the only source of lubrication for the hub? The grease is the only lube it's getting. Are the steering swivels oil filled like a Land Rover, and if so does the oil not get in the hub to lubricate both? The swivels contain Tracta joints, oiled for assembly then the swivel is packed with grease. Is the hub capable of being filled with a heavy oil, like a 140 gear oil, and if so would it provide better lubrication for the seal; improving its life expectancy, and provide cooling for it? This is what I did last year in order to re-lube the Tracta joints as I thought they must need some after 55 years, BIG mistake, cause of most of all this! As you can see oil was getting past and presumably lubricating as it went, not a lot of good really still got on the shoes. Most of this has drained out now as the swivel seals don't loose any more. Were the original seals made of rubbery stuff These are the originals Presumably the other side doesn't suffer the same problem. Yes it did last year, much worse than this side, cleaned and filled it with ordinary grease, none came out but I don't trust it! doing the same job on that one tomorrow. Another possibility could be that the seal support ring could be slightly distorted, putting uneven pressure on the seal, causing it both to leak and overheat locally. Possibly but as seals and springs are NLA, so no point it trying. I hate recurring mechanical problems. Doing a job twice always pees me off. Agreed, but the cost of having the modified seal carriers made and sleeving the stub axle spacers that Graham did to take modern seals was not at all cheap, If this grease does not spread this should be OK. Jus' tryin' to be helpful. That's what we're all here for, all input welcome. Spose you could always put a pliable leather washer between the rubber seal and the axle sealing face.............Might work. Might, I'll look again next winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted March 26, 2009 Author Share Posted March 26, 2009 Do you have any dimensions for the gaiters? Here is what they look like Will, never took any measurements (forgot :rolleyes:) Servos all good just a cleanup and gaiters required All that hidden crapp in the servo bracket! I did do a bit of lateral thinking here as well, just to keep the crap out till I find some gaiters to fit, any help here would be great. Dense closed cell foam cut with a Stanley knife. This is the fixes and workarounds thread after all....................:coffee: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrtcrowther Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 I have managed to make gaiters out of old leather trousers or an old leather coat from a charity shop:idea:. I am planning to make a steering ram gaiter out of a fat mans leather trouser leg. Jubalee clip each end and lace up the split, Have to make sure it dosent bundel up on full lock. Good Quality shammiy leather makes a fair small gaiter. Just smother it with oil when fitting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 I am planning to make a steering ram gaiter out of a fat mans leather trouser leg. You need a pair of leather 70's extreme flairs :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted March 26, 2009 Author Share Posted March 26, 2009 I have managed to make gaiters out of old leather trousers or an old leather coat from a charity shop:idea:. I am planning to make a steering ram gaiter out of a fat mans leather trouser leg. Jubalee clip each end and lace up the split, Have to make sure it dosent bundel up on full lock. Good Quality shammiy leather makes a fair small gaiter. Just smother it with oil when fitting. A good idea Rob, as long as they are kept soft, Vaseline is recommended for this, according to Landrover. The leather gaiters once made for Landrover swivel housings, I put a pair on my series 1 to protect the perfect swivel chrome but when I took them off a couple of years later water had got trapped inside (through the lace hole I reckon) and rusted them! :argh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted March 26, 2009 Author Share Posted March 26, 2009 There is another special fix shown in those pix, I'm surprised no one has spotted it (or them) yet....................................................:coffee: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiomike7 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 (edited) There is another special fix shown in those pix, I'm surprised no one has spotted it (or them) yet....................................................:coffee: Did I spot a steering damper or two?? The Constructors had them as the steering would go into oscillation at certain speeds after hitting a pothole, certainly with the 10" wheels and 14.00 x 20 tyres:shake: Have you looked at adapting a boot from the end of a car/light commercial steering rack? Edited March 27, 2009 by radiomike7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 (edited) Yes Mike, I fitted these after I overhauled the steering, the sticking seal was rolling in the steering servo and acting as a damper because when it was all rebuilt and oiled the steering shakes got so bad on bumpy corners and potholes it was really scary. Those dampers had lain on my shelf for many years, left over from my off road competition days, Bilstien gas filled coil overs, do the job perfic. Something will turn up re boots, just a case of keep looking. Ball joint gaiters are on order! Edited March 31, 2009 by gritineye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 Another take on the Cummins into Explorer clutch shaft dilemma, This is Edward Collins' method. He an engineering firm make a flange which they welded onto the shaft, drilled, trued and balanced and the huge propshaft made to suit, don't think that will break any time soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big chris Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Hi can anyone tell me the best oil to put into a leyland 690 turbo engine as ive been told to use straight 30 oil but i have also been told to use a modern turbo diesel oil and i dont want to just use a fleet 15/40 diesel oil as i believe this has detergent in it which will wash the engine internally thank chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Hi can anyone tell me the best oil to put into a leyland 690 turbo engine as ive been told to use straight 30 oil but i have also been told to use a modern turbo diesel oil and i dont want to just use a fleet 15/40 diesel oil as i believe this has detergent in it which will wash the engine internally thank chris Chris, Without a doubt, all oils used in diesels will be detergent oils, even SAE 30 oil for diesels will be ( the term "straight", usually impies that it is without detergency additives ). As you should have full flow oil filters on the engine, detergent oil is what is intended for it. It is your decision on whether you use a monograde diesel oil ( ie SAE30 ) or a multigrade diesel oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest catweazle (Banned Member) Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Chris i use a modern multigrade in my Cats vintage 1968,Catterpillar actually recomended it.Its better to keep all the carbon in suspension in the oil rather than dumped around the engine.cw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big chris Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Thanks for that are there any benefits from using the sae30 or should i just stick to the 15/40 fleet oil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 (edited) Isn't it back to the point that straight oils are intended to dump out bits and stuff in the sump, and a only a proportion of the oil flow be filtered (bypass filtration) in the older engines, whilst multigrades are designed to carry all particles in suspension so that they can be separated in a full-flow filter as in modern engines? (That's what the very helpful man at Morris's told me) Edited April 12, 2009 by N.O.S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest catweazle (Banned Member) Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Thanks for that are there any benefits from using the sae30 or should i just stick to the 15/40 fleet oil I think if your engine is in good order and has good oil pressure when hot then multigrade should be fine.if you have oil pressure issues then a oil booster such as true blue(a long chain oil addative)or a mono grade may be better,The oil needs to help cool the engine parts as well as lubricate so it needs to get to running temperature as quick as possible,i have known engines struggle to turn over on the starter in cold weather when a thick oil is used to try and componsate for low oil pressure.Its a matter of balance which only you can find.:-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest catweazle (Banned Member) Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Isn't it back to the point that straight oils are intended to dump out bits and stuff in the sump, and a only a proportion of the oil flow be filtered (bypass filtration) in the older engines, whilst multigrades are designed to carry all particles in suspension so that they can be separated in a full-flow filter as in modern engines? I think oils have come on so much since these engines were made that its one of those questions that goes round and round.We have the old complaint about ash destroying piston rings in engines burning multigrades due to addatives,the theory being that the older engines consume engine oil as per design to aid long life.I havnt heard of anyone first hand having this problem,i have had mine to bits enough and they show no sign of it. They consume 5lts every one hundred miles if driven hard :shocked:. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 All good advice from NOS and CW.............just to add, there are some large diesels that the makers specified the use of a monograde diesel oil.....maybe not so much now, but one that sprung to mind was Detroit Diesel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 They consume 5lts every one hundred miles if driven hard :shocked:. About the same as the new SMART diesel car then :coffee: Oh sorry, you weren't talking about fuel were you....:-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 We have the old complaint about ash destroying piston rings in engines burning multigrades due to addatives,the theory being that the older engines consume engine oil as per design to aid long life. An interesting subject............I am of the opinion that no engine was designed to burn or consume oil, this was actually a result of greater tolerances than the more modern engines, which now benefit from better materials with compatable expansion rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest catweazle (Banned Member) Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 An interesting subject............I am of the opinion that no engine was designed to burn or consume oil, this was actually a result of greater tolerances than the more modern engines, which now benefit from better materials with compatable expansion rates. Your right Richard, i think as you say there was an accepted consumption figure due to tollerances,it just so happened to aid longer life.Allthough i do have a book on early diesel engine design where they do talk of tolerance design allowing a oil by pass percentage as the norm.:-Doh no not the loft again ,now where is it.:sweat: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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