croc Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 (edited) Best bet is to pull the whole thing out and time it, as described in the handbook, with the drum empty. It is dead easy to do, but check that the timing isn't too far off as you pull the rope out, so that you don't overload the rollers. I had to time mine when I put new rollers on it, if you can find a slope and run it out of the front it gives it a bit of load. http://www.hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?t=7130&page=3 Edited February 10, 2009 by croc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thor698 Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 cheers croc will have to get cab done first then do the winch this year:cool2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Andi's Explorer had a broken wooden handle, on the jib extending crank handle. She has been out in the cold making a new one on her wood lathe. This started out as a square of oak. Andi says that for a reasonable price she can supply this part if anyone hasn't got access to a wood lathe but their handles are broken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 We have yet to fit it, but if it doesn't work, she says at least it will keep the stove going for a bit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 I am sure it'll fit though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted February 20, 2009 Author Share Posted February 20, 2009 Spent a few hours yesterday fitting a Jake Brake to Forceful, 1/4" clearance under bonnet. Better clamp and road test tomorrow! :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thor698 Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 nice you wont need to worry about the brakes :cool2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 (edited) Surely that is an exhaust brake, not a Jake brake. A Jake brake requires an extra lobe on the camshaft and an extra exhuast valve in each cylinder, to alter the valve timing. A Jake brake is a "compression release engine brake", JAKE BRAKE is a trademark for vehicle retarding systems, or engine brakes, developed and manufactured by Jacobs Vehicle Systems, Inc. The trademark JAKE BRAKE should not be used to refer to engine brakes in general. Jake brakes are so integral to the build of the engine, I can't imagine they were ever retro-fitted. Edited February 20, 2009 by antarmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julezee001 Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 I would guess that the term "Jake brake" is a generic term for an exhaust brake, or the more sophisticated one changing valve timing. Whilt I doubt Bernards brake is manufactured by the company in question, they do manufacture "Jake exhaust brakes". I'm sure whoever made it, that Forceful will sound great coming down any steep hill ! All the best, Jules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted February 20, 2009 Author Share Posted February 20, 2009 (edited) You are of course completely right in what you say Mike, I erroneously called it a Jake brake because I thought it was an early type made by Jacobs, it is I now find, a Retro exhaust brake. Unlike a Jake brake this is only really effective at high revs, which is just right in an Explorer when revving nearly in the red down a long steep hill and the brakes are having a rest! Good research is never wasted, sometimes a little embarrassing though! :-D Retro fitting Jake Brake kits are available on ebay!!! Edited February 21, 2009 by gritineye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiomike7 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 brakes are having a rest! Good research is never wasted, sometimes a little embarrassing though! :-D quote] Does it just restrict the exhaust or does it shut off the fuel as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted February 21, 2009 Author Share Posted February 21, 2009 (edited) Does it just restrict the exhaust or does it shut off the fuel as well? Mike, see here: Edited March 24, 2010 by gritineye link broken and site seems to be hijaked by bad people! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 (edited) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jake_brake http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhaust_brake Edited February 21, 2009 by antarmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thor698 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 i have a exhaust brake on thor is it best to shut off the fuel:confused: i could put a air ram on the engine stop and plumb it in with the exhaust brake:idea: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6 X 6 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Spent a few hours yesterday fitting a Jake Brake to Forceful, 1/4" clearance under bonnet. Better clamp and road test tomorrow! :-D I'm very much looking forward to hearing the results of your road test. The modern trucks I drive, MAN or Mercedes Benz, are both fitted with an optional exhaust brake that I find so ineffectual that I never bother selecting it. Drivers of Volvo trucks tell me the exhaust brakes on that make is quite powerful compared to MAN and MB. Going back a few years, I'd sometimes come across lorries fitted with a safety system whereby if a vehicle had lost all of it's air, and then the air pressure was built up, the brakes would not release until a switch was pressed on the dashboard. This system worked independently of the handbrake. The idea was that if a lorry had, for example, lost all of it's air overnight and the engine was started and pressure built up in the braking system of an unattended vehicle, fitted with spring brakes, it wouldn't roll away even if the handbrake hadn't been applied. Can anyone remember what this system was called ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 I'm very much looking forward to hearing the results of your road test. Well young 6x6, it performed exactly as expected, from the top of a long fairly steep hill at 2400 rpm it held back enough to drop the revs to 1900 ish and would have held it there. I usually have to dab the brakes on this hill, I let it off then as that was around my cruising speed. The retardation was not massive but gently stopped any over revving, I don't usually rev that high, that was just a test. It has almost no effect at lower revs, but this was expected. it makes a great sound, but needs some red Hermetite in the flange joints as there is some air hissing out. I would think if towing a load in 5th gear it would be very effective due to the higher revs. I am very pleased with it for nothing spent, just have to buy a couple of propper air line fittings to do a propper job.:-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6 X 6 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 it performed exactly as expected,I am very pleased with it for nothing spent, just have to buy a couple of propper air line fittings to do a propper job.:-D I'm very pleased to hear it worked as well as you hoped it would. It sounds like time very well spent, both safeguarding your engine, and making 'Forcefull' even safer on hills, especially when towing. Thanks for showing us how we could do the same. :tup:: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 You're welcome, we need to share stuff, it all helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swill1952xs Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I drive several different vehicles. Two have standard exhaust brakes and the third has a Jake Brake. The ERF and Daf exhaust brakes work well if you brake down to a speed that you want to hold, and allow the engine revs to drop quite low. If you then apply the exhaust brake; the engine will hold the vehicle back fairly well. Using the exhaust brake at a higher speed is a complete waste of time as all it does is make a nasty hissing noise and give little or no braking effect at all. Our Foden has a Cat C10 with a Jake Brake. Now that is effective. It can be switched off, set to a medium effort activated by just touching the pedal, or set so maximum effort, engaging when the accelerator is released. If you want to be a naughty boy with it; drive down a steep hill (Fully loaded) with the engine at fairly low revs, past a line of parked cars, (Brighton is perfect for this) with the Jake Brake set on maximum. Look in the mirror and watch all the hazard warning flashers come on on the cars as their alarms go off. It has a really deep thundering thudding note to it when you do this. Don't ya just love it....... :thumbsup: :-D:rofl: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 Interesting how different the more modern ones perform Swill, computer designed I expect! This is from the Retro site EFFECTIVENESS As the name suggests, a Hole is drilled through the sliding gate, the size of which is dependent upon the required exhaust back pressure at 10% over rated engine speed. In the case of a Cummins LI 0 this orifice size is 15.25mm which will give 65 psi. at 2300 Engine RPM.. at 200 RPM. the manifold pressure drops to 25 PSI. With the corresponding loss of retardation. This effect is more pronounced in the smaller engines and tends to render the Exhaust Brake largely ineffective at less than maximum engine speeds. I think the 200rpm may be a typo. I often hear the Jake Brake at low revs outside my house when big Yankee wreckers bring broken buses back the bus park nearby, had to laugh the other day when one driver was having such a good time he overshot the entrance, teach him! :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiomike7 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Going back a few years, I'd sometimes come across lorries fitted with a safety system whereby if a vehicle had lost all of it's air, and then the air pressure was built up, the brakes would not release until a switch was pressed on the dashboard. This system worked independently of the handbrake. The idea was that if a lorry had, for example, lost all of it's air overnight and the engine was started and pressure built up in the braking system of an unattended vehicle, fitted with spring brakes, it wouldn't roll away even if the handbrake hadn't been applied. Can anyone remember what this system was called ? Tom, you are thinking of the Volvo FL7/10 which had a brake control valve on the dash that popped out if the pressure dropped. I seem to remember it had 'Bremse Brake' written on the knob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6 X 6 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 (edited) Tom, you are thinking of the Volvo FL7/10 which had a brake control valve on the dash that popped out if the pressure dropped. I seem to remember it had 'Bremse Brake' written on the knob. Thank you Mike ! I think you've got it. I suffered a burst radiator on a hired unit very early one morning just a few miles from the delivery point. Recovery hadn't yet arrived and having waited for the engine to cool down I decided to carefully drive to the customer*. Would it move ? With air built up, and handbrake off, it just sat there until, entirely by chance, fiddling with the buttons and knobs, I pressed a button and the lorry started rolling. I've never seen one before or since. *I should just explain that the load was 26 pallets of Sunday newspapers worth around £50,000 retail or, £150 in scrap paper if they didn't get to the wholesaler in time. You have to do your best to make the delivery. Edited February 23, 2009 by 6 X 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted March 12, 2009 Author Share Posted March 12, 2009 I am overhauling the front brakes on Forceful, I need to find new gaiters for the brake expanders and for the servos, has any one found a source for these or know of a cross referenced part number for something else that uses the same type? Any help on this would be much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share Posted March 25, 2009 (edited) Some of you may remember that I had a front hub seal leaking on Forceful, I intended to copy the modification that Graham Germany has done to his, but stuff and things got in the way. I'm running out of pre season time to make and modify the parts, so I've cleaned everything out and regreased with super sticky stuff and put it all back until next winter. If it has not leaked out by then I may just leave it as is. This is the hub that didn't appear to be leaking, but as can be seen it was, not a lot, but enough to mess up the shoes. The other hub that I had greased with normal grease last year had not leaked any further but the seal had worn enough to leave a rubber dust debris, (some wiped some off to show it better) the seal surfaces where lubed before being put back on! How where these ever acceptable? I only did about 200 mls to make this much dust! The manual says that if the seal leaks it is only 'advisable' to replace it, maybe front brakes where not really considered neccessary! This is the grease I am hoping will do the trick, it is so sticky it's stretches into really fine threads. The inner bearing packed and with the silicone sealer ready to take the seal adapter, notice there is a large groove around the bearing which should hold quite a lot of drips of grease before they get any where near the seal. The manufacturers of this stuff tell me that it will not move away from where it is put, ever, we shall see! There are two spacers and then the second layer of the seal, you can see that the groove and this cover make a good centrifugal grease trap. How complicated can a useless thing be? The top part of the seal in place, this useless seal comprises 15 parts, and 4 gaskets, (silicon used) and 12 bolts. I then cleaned all the old lube out of the stub axle and drive shaft and greased every thing against rust, this grease it so clingy that washing parts and bearings with brake cleaner solvent is needed, as any old oil on the surface means it will stick to your fingers better that the component. It is quite difficult to spread it out smoothly. As can be seen all brake shoes were relined, expanders cleaned and lubed then the hub was then refitted in the normal way. Edited March 25, 2009 by gritineye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFowler Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Nice job Bernard ! :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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