SAS Rogue Heroes Rogue Vehicle.

[gordonb]

Obviously following the current rules of military vehicle ownership: every vehicle must have a radio aerial and fly a flag from it irrespective of whether said vehicle ever had a radio fitted in service.

[andym]

2 hours ago, gordonb said:

Obviously following the current rules of military vehicle ownership: every vehicle must have a radio aerial and fly a flag from it irrespective of whether said vehicle ever had a radio fitted in service.

... and if it's a landy, as many as you can cram on the vehicle, all with 4m whips.  🙂

Andy

[fv1609]

13 minutes ago, andym said:

... and if it's a landy, as many as you can cram on the vehicle, all with 4m whips.  🙂

Andy

The number of aerials is inversely proportional to the amount of working radio equipment. If there is a flag then the chance of there being working radio equipment connected is minimal.

[utt61]

I attempted to watch the first episode yesterday but found it unbearable after a couple of minutes. I did however notice that they had the decency to warn viewers beforehand that the programme contained scenes that might upset some viewers, so at least they acknowledged the bizarre and controversial vehicle choices!

[XS650]

Take your point on aerials , but adds to the dramatic effect  😀 

Edited December 23, 2022 by XS650

[XS650]

21 hours ago, mtskull said:

Here’s a comparison of the vehicle in question with a QL and a Matador.
Matador 4x4 tankers evidently do exist (see photo a few posts previously); whether or not they are period correct probably wasn’t much of a consideration to the producers, as evidenced by some of their other choices.

 

I know it is a a Matador. 

My original post said it could have been fitted with a TANK from a QL,  

AFAIK Matadors 4x4 were only supplied as Medium Artillery Tractors plus a relatively few flatbeds for the RAF. Though of course in the field many conversions took place.

 

Edited December 23, 2022 by XS650

[Grasshopper]

And there was I thinking that it was only railway buffs that were this picky! Having worked on a preserved railway that's been used for many TV programs and films, I learned to stop worrying about details long ago! The one that really got me though was the Network South East seat moquette in Dunkirk, and the fact that the carriage had fluorescent lamps.  Some of the costumes the art department have made loco crews wear at out place over the years are just hilarious, not including some of the extra stuff they want hanging off locomotives (such as American style lamps on the front!). 

I quite enjoyed Rogue Heroes, but then I also liked all of Peaky Blinders (by the same writer). The TV show did make me go and read the book the series was based on, so if a few people go and do that then I think it's a good thing. 

[XS650]

Gotta expect some rivet counting on a Military Vehicle forum 🙂,  I thought the programme was  great  drama and don't mind a few rogue vehicles .

However as this is a rogue vehicle thread-  this monstrosity appeared ( briefly fortunately to right of 1st pic ) looks like it may be an early Unimog badly disguised as a  CMP.

 

 

Edited December 23, 2022 by XS650

[fv1609]

1 hour ago, Grasshopper said:

And there was I thinking that it was only railway buffs that were this picky!

 

I live with a horse expert who cringes at historical films when she sees saddles, bridles & tack that were not around at the time. But it all looks ok to me.

But show me any of the many films with Shorlands & Pigs painted grey or vehicles that were not around at the time depicted, I burst a blood vessel. Because with a bit more thought the correct advice & vehicles could have been sourced. Some of the advisors seem to have a poor understanding of what they should be advising.

As I have little knowledge of WW2 vehicles & given the scarcity of such vehicles nowadays, the range of vehicles in this SAS series they seem to have made a good effort & seems to me to fit in generally. I don't know what a Reo is anyway : )

[Packhow75]

2 minutes ago, fv1609 said:

I live with a horse expert who cringes at historical films when she sees saddles, bridles & tack that were not around at the time. But it all looks ok to me.

But show me any of the many films with Shorlands & Pigs painted grey or vehicles that were not around at the time depicted, I burst a blood vessel. Because with a bit more thought the correct advice & vehicles could have been sourced. Some of the advisors seem to have a poor understanding of what they should be advising.

As I have little knowledge of WW2 vehicles & given the scarcity of such vehicles nowadays, the range of vehicles in this SAS series they seem to have made a good effort & seems to me to fit in generally. I don't know what a Reo is anyway : )

All the WW2 vehicles they could have wanted are available... however perhaps not affordable - I have no idea what the budget was. Hopefully Series 2 will be better.

[10FM68]

The thing is, accuracy is rarely part of the equation, it's the story which matters.  One has to look back at old films when, I would have assumed, WWII vehicles were more common than they are today, but there were still some shockers - particularly poorly disguised International half tracks for the Germans in Ice Cold in Alex or Chaffees for The Battle of The Bulge.. the Sioux in Where Eagles Dare ... Funnily enough, one of the most accurate for uniforms was Black Adder!

The trouble is, if you have any kind of expertise in these things, you are going to notice the anomalies - I'm sure the police used to cringe at Z Cars!  I haven't watched Rogue Heroes, but I can guess.  And, interestingly, one of the aspects of war films they never get right is that peculiar, special relationship between officers and soldiers - it is always too stiff, too formal, over the top and with the young officer portrayed as foolish at best.  But, if you read the diaries and tales written by, for example, tank crews, it is easy to see that, in reality, it was a very different, and special, relationship with a lot of humour and shared endeavour.

But what I do think is sad is the scarcity of British vehicles on the scene.  We seem to be swamped with US, ie foreign, stuff - largely as a result of its becoming available from continental war stocks. but there seems so little interest in, particularly post WWII British soft skin vehicles.  Where are all the Bedford RLs, the Austin K9s, the Morris MRAIs Fordson Thames E3, Commer Q4 - the list goes on?  People still get sniffy about Land Rovers, yet many of them are now far older than WWII vehicles were in the 80s and many lived interesting lives.

And as soon as anyone gets a Jeep with a genuine British provenance which would look spectacular in DBG and BAOR markings, on goes the olive drab, the siren, the US bling and all the provenance is lost.  I can't afford it, but, if I could, I would have a Jeep and mark it up post-war British - there's plenty of scope.

[ruxy]

Film props - if you wish to be impressed  , stop for a coffee break or better still book in advance a full English breakfast in the end carriage at Bassenthwaite Lake Station  - the SNCF loco. and carriages used in the (made for) the 2017 production of Agatha Christie's  -  Murder on the Orient Express.  God only knows how many £$ it all cost  ?   Apparently the carriages are body width a little out of gauge to make camera access better.

[Privatejoker]

The first faux pas I noticed was less than 3 mins into the first episode with the convoy running out of fuel and the senior officer (who was sat in an MW) said he'd been watching the fuel gauge getting empty made me laugh. Only someone who's driven or been in an MW will know the fuel gauge is a calibrated piece of wood or steel sat by the side of the engine cover that you have to stick in the relevant fuel tank to know how much is left. But still it was an enjoyable series if you ignored the obvious mitsakes!!

I give it 8/10 for effort and entertainment.

[Jack]

On 11/22/2022 at 4:37 PM, Andrew Rutter said:

In my opinion, Steven Knight has written a drama for the BBC that does do justice to that remarkable period on the inception of the SAS. It is written of course as a drama, with dialogue and music appropriate to hold the attention  of today's audiences, vehicles maybe not absolutely accurate, (pretty good really as the production team went to a lot of trouble in Morocco shooting the desert scenes - the Jeeps and LRDG's Chevy are brilliant) but it shows absolutely what a game changer in WWII these soldiers were. Why do I say this, well my uncle was one of those first soldiers recruited by David Stirling to 'L' detachment, being picked out of many, sitting in that hanger in Cairo. Wounded in the raid on Sirte airfield, went on to Sicily, (we think also Crete?) and then 'Operation Houndsworth' in France before & after D Day. I didn't know any of these stories until decades after WWII, and Ben MacIntyres's research & book, but as far as I am aware, it is 'mostly true',  just as the opening credits says!  I'm so pleased as he richly deserved his MM. I actually think the series should be a BAFTA nomination.

Stunning family history Andrew!

[Pzkpfw-e]

On 12/23/2022 at 12:02 PM, 10FM68 said:

The thing is, accuracy is rarely part of the equation, it's the story which matters.  One has to look back at old films when, I would have assumed, WWII vehicles were more common than they are today, but there were still some shockers - particularly poorly disguised International half tracks for the Germans in Ice Cold in Alex or Chaffees for The Battle of The Bulge.. the Sioux in Where Eagles Dare ... Funnily enough, one of the most accurate for uniforms was Black Adder!

But what I do think is sad is the scarcity of British vehicles on the scene.  We seem to be swamped with US, ie foreign, stuff - largely as a result of its becoming available from continental war stocks. but there seems so little interest in, particularly post WWII British soft skin vehicles.  Where are all the Bedford RLs, the Austin K9s, the Morris MRAIs Fordson Thames E3, Commer Q4 - the list goes on?  People still get sniffy about Land Rovers, yet many of them are now far older than WWII vehicles were in the 80s and many lived interesting lives.

 

I assume, that even in 1958, when "Ice Cold in Alex" was filmed, functional German half tracks were rare beasts, probably rarer than they are now, as nobody had much interest in fishing stuff out of rivers & swamps on the other side of the Iron Curtain - bear in mind that Lancaster ND759 which ditched on Lake Constance, Switzerland and it sank on 27th / 28th April 1944.,was recovered from the lake by Martin Shaffner during 1953/1954. It was put on display in Steckborn before being scrapped in 1955. A virtually intact Lancaster, with a known, wartime provenance, just scrapped.

Old British vehicles has probably rusted away by then & maybe the ex-US vehicles were just better, so had longer lives in civilian hands, when they were demobbed. 

[10FM68]

2 hours ago, Pzkpfw-e said:

I assume, that even in 1958, when "Ice Cold in Alex" was filmed, functional German half tracks were rare beasts, probably rarer than they are now, as nobody had much interest in fishing stuff out of rivers & swamps on the other side of the Iron Curtain - bear in mind that Lancaster ND759 which ditched on Lake Constance, Switzerland and it sank on 27th / 28th April 1944.,was recovered from the lake by Martin Shaffner during 1953/1954. It was put on display in Steckborn before being scrapped in 1955. A virtually intact Lancaster, with a known, wartime provenance, just scrapped.

Old British vehicles has probably rusted away by then & maybe the ex-US vehicles were just better, so had longer lives in civilian hands, when they were demobbed. 

True, I doubt there was much Wehrmacht stuff around even in the fifties and, quite frankly, the film-going public wouldn't give a damn anyway.  As for British vehicles, again, you're right - they weren't thought of as being anything worth preserving so those which came onto the market and which didn't go for scrap straight away were simply run into the ground and then scrapped.  The reason there are so many US vehicles around is that so many of them were gifted to European armies under the Marshall Aid Plan and they ended up in war reserve and so outlived the competition.  I would still like to see more ex-British WWII vehicles, though, done up in the colours they finished their service in as DBG and colourful markings suited so many of them.  I really enjoyed that video clip of the Scottish Gunner TA field regiment from the 1950s - the vehicles were really well looked after and what a collection... Quads, Albion FT15Ns, a Commer Q2, a Tilley and a host of other vehicles ... fascinating.

[LarryH57]

IMHO the producers tried hard as they could to use WW2 looking vehicles, even if a few Reo 6x6s  got sneaked in to he German convoys.

It was much better than 1960s when the 'German Panzers' were always M48 or M60s and painted drain pipe grey while depicting Normandy 1944, or every German truck was also grey with an enormous cross on the cab door, as seen in no WW2 photographs!

[Brian Bennett]

The sighting of the post war Reo was a bit off putting. It turned up as a German truck when the group were sabotaging the enemy camp. Apart from that, the use of authentic vehicles was very good when you consider films made in the 1950s/60s almost always used whatever military type was available. In 'Tobruk' American vehicles are used on both sides. George Peppard and his troup are disguised as Afrika Corps soldiers. He is in an M3 halftrack, its supposed to be a German halftrack of course. When it breaks down, Peppard declares that you will never fix it because German engineering is complicated. If you had just tuned in at that point you would ask yourself; but that halftrack was made by White in Detroit?