Jack Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 Here is a question of the week for the more 'experienced' members amongst us.. Compared to 10 years ago would you say in your opinion that the standard of military vehicle restoration has risen or declined? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 Sounds like a good question for an argument :computerterror: I would certainly think that we are as a whole more knowledgable and that we no longer accept the ridiculous, ie, painting up green something that was never a MV and then passing it off as somthing it never was, or US stars with 6 points on them as opposed to the usual 5 (seen at Southsea in 1994). Standards are higher, but the number of people able to achieve those standards are in decline, because people with those skills are dropping off the end ( :died:.) Dont get me wrong, we have some incredible restorations being completed, some truly amazing, but I would think that we have more people who undertake professional restorations as their business and less people doing complete ground up rebuilds themsleves. Tim (too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 yes by classic military vehicles especially of WW2 types is a declining supply, they ain't building any more. So most decent ones have been restored and any others robbed for spares. Maybe now it is more conservation then restoration? The Series 3 Land rover is now becoming a Classic, yet a lot of us will remember the razz me tazz of the launch. We also seem to be tied up in a lot more legislation now, plus loss of basic skills. How many people do their own car maintenance now? You can't, because you don't have the computer software , no user friendly parts, don't repair replace. even change a headlight bulb, the new Audi handbook says 'Go to Main Dealear'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ford 369 Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Probably one of the easiest ways to guage this is to ask the spares dealers what sales are like because unfortunately as parts and labour costs keep going up the end value of many vehicles does not keep pace and while this is not a problem for most of us whoare not in it for the money nobody wants to spend 5 years and 10 grand on restoring a GMC when they can go and buy a nice one that is ready to use for four thousand.This is aproblem that has been affecting the classic car scene for quite some time now and it is made worse because many wothy projects have been restored now meaning much of what is left is in need of too much work for the average amateur/home restorer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Johns Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 I agree with the previous replies, there are less and less restorable projects around and majority are perhaps major rebuilds, very costly, these days, it would make interesting reading if a survey of ongoing military restoration projects could be made. Unfortunatly there are now plenty of so called enthusiasts who are buying up vehicles because its the "in thing," spend plenty of money on hanging everything including the kitchen sink on it but quite obviously not really capable of looking after it properly, or carrying out any proper restoration or routine maintenance, you only have to look around some of the shows to see the appalling mechanical condition some are in, usually its the larger MOT "exempt" stuff, bald tyres, perished brake hoses, misfiring, lots of oil leaks, never seen a grease gun in years, covered in layers of mud from the w&p off road course, doesn't do the movement any good,certainly not preserving them for future generations.... seems things are in decline :? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Mayhem Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Standards are higher, but the number of people able to achieve those standards are in decline, because people with those skills are dropping off the end ( :died:.) Dont get me wrong, we have some incredible restorations being completed, some truly amazing, but I would think that we have more people who undertake professional restorations as their business and less people doing complete ground up rebuilds themsleves. Tim (too) This argument hits the nail right on the head. In my twenties, when money was so tight that we kept a book of all household expenses, so as not to go into debt, I did everything myself. At the time, my car, a Cortina, was just too expensive to have serviced and repaired in the garage. I learned, from night school maintenance classes and Haynes manuals, to do it myself. I did household maintenance, like plumbing, boiler repair and so on. Just like everyone else, I did painting and decorating, gardening, I even learned how to recover furniture, so that our beat up old suite had a new lease of life. The lack of funds sparked the motivation to do things. Today, I own a fleet of delivery vans, big and small, all the servicing is farmed out, I employ someone to do my garden, someone to do her ladyship's ironing, Haven't picked up a paintbrush in years, just get a quote and let them get on with it. Nothing would give me more pleasure than to find a dilapidated WW2 staff car and bring it up to concours finish. But the demands on my time are such that it will never happen, so is it wrong to call in the experts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Nothing would give me more pleasure than to find a dilapidated WW2 staff car and bring it up to concours finish. But the demands on my time are such that it will never happen, so is it wrong to call in the experts? Not at all! Some folk enjoy restoring and running, some just like to restore, some just enjoy driving and/or showing old mvs. A lot of folk get a uniform to go with their vehicle, so what's wrong with getting a staff car to go with the uniform? :whistle: It would only be a crime if you were to have one restored and it never came out of the garage for others to enjoy. The point is another vehicle would be saved and looked after. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 I agree with the General, my first car was an Austin Gypsy, and do i want one back! The clutch went. So out with spanners and a mate of mine just got on with changing it. fortunately we had a secret weapon, a chap who lived nearby called Howard. I praise his name everytime something silly goes wrong with a piece of kit. He had the patience to stop explain and show us how to do it. Nowadays, you just can't do it. If it don't work the computer uses you as monkey to unplug 1 wire and plug in the new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeEnfield Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Not at all! Some folk enjoy restoring and running, some just like to restore, some just enjoy driving and/or showing old mvs. A lot of folk get a uniform to go with their vehicle, so what's wrong with getting a staff car to go with the uniform? :whistle: It would only be a crime if you were to have one restored and it never came out of the garage for others to enjoy. The point is another vehicle would be saved and looked after. :-) Hear, hear.......... :tup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Rippingham Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 i've just spent the best part of £15.000 and 4 years restoring my truck (fwd har-1)! i had to sell all other trucks n projects and use all my earnings to do it! To be honest i enjoyed the 4 years of hard work, now own a truck i couldn't have bought restored because it's only one of three left in the world :-D, but won't be able to afford to own/restore anything else for a loooong time!!!!!!!! :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 I have never seen one in the flesh. Do you have a photo of it that you can post Thanks Tim (too). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G506 Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 i've just spent the best part of £15.000 and 4 years restoring my truck (fwd har-1)! i had to sell all other trucks n projects and use all my earnings to do it! To be honest i enjoyed the 4 years of hard work, now own a truck i couldn't have bought restored because it's only one of three left in the world :-D, but won't be able to afford to own/restore anything else for a loooong time!!!!!!!! :-( Hi Ben, to me, what you've described is what its all about. My Chev restoration is coming along nicely, I'm a year into it, aprox 1/3 completed, and already the money and work Ive ploughed into it is terrifying. But thats fine, because Ive always wanted one, and I wanted to save one from being cut up, which I achieved. Same as me, it sounds like you've done it for the love of it, and had to make lots of sacrifices, hats off to you fella. I would like to see some photos too, sounds like a very cool truck. But to get back on track, my thoughts are that maybe the older unrestored vehicles still in hedgerows/barns are obviously now in a very poor state, years of abuse and the elements taking their toll. They need heavy restoration, and thats only for the more foolish/ambitious/brave amongst us. Not everyone has an understanding partner (Im very fortunate in that respect, Mrs G506 knows how important this is to me). Its hard for the average working man to be able to justify the expense of renting/buying workshop facilities, also time restraints in this busy modern world, and a hundred other reasons. To sum up, restoration is still happening, possibly even more than ever, but in a different way to 30 years ago. These projects are now more in depth, by an even more dedicated bunch. I would certainly agree with the comments raised by Tony B, in this comuter driven world less people have the necessary skills to before embarking on a major restoration, but instead now many learn them as their project progresses. Im just glad we're still saving them, because if we don't, who will? G506 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Rippingham Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 my truck in december 2003. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Rippingham Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 At stoneleigh as chassis/cab in 2006 and completed with rebuilt cargo body this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Rippingham Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 stoneleigh 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abn deuce Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 She's looking mighty good!!! and it looks like you had just a bit to spare on the height department so any thing bigger would have been out of the question . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick W Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 Tony! Theres an Austin Gypsy in the new issue of Land Rover Enthusiast. 1964 Fire Tender for restoration £1,500. ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ford 369 Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 stoneleigh 2006 Excellent job Ben well worth the wait and the effort to have something so out of the ordinary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted October 6, 2007 Author Share Posted October 6, 2007 Here is a question of the week for the more 'experienced' members amongst us.. Compared to 10 years ago would you say in your opinion that the standard of military vehicle restoration has risen or declined? The problem is for me is that I have no frame of reference as I haven't been here long enough to draw on many years of experience of mvs. For me I see the mv world/movement as the same as any movement/collective thought. You will always have those that do and those that don't. You will have those that pride themselves on knowing the most finest details of the compounds that make up the paint that is used to spray vehicles to those that just about know what a steering wheel is. Is this a problem? Well of course it isn't, it can't be - the end result is the same, a love and respect of their vehicles and hopefully the people that went with them. I am often confused by those that say it is disrepectful to wear a uniform when driving or displaying a military vehicle but the realisation is that these machines were a part of the killing machine that is war. can we really have snobbery in war, death and destruction, it can sometimes appear so. I came into this industry knowing nothing about the mechanics of military vehicles but I have always been a person who is willing to learn and I will always be the first one to say that I don't know something and I haven't a problem asking for advice - lets face it, I wrote for a year in the leading military magazine, the CMV publically stating that I know nothing...and I am not afraid to admit it! Since those early days I have learnt shed loads and I have been fortunate to have chums like Mr HF who has shown me so much....I know more now then I did last year, the year before and so on. I come from a generation that weren't taught the skills that the more mature generation were taught, we live in a different world now and yes I think in this movement that we may well have a 'skills' shortage but these skills can be learnt if we are willing to ask the questions. With the power of the internet and place like HMVF there is now no longer any excuse to say ' I didn't know' I think the skills will be taught via places like this. The bottom line is, as long as vehicles are road worthy (safe) then we should all be pleased that history is being kept alive - amen to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 Nicely put Jack!!! :tup: :tup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 I come from a poor family so when I had a moped we had to learn to repair it or pay someone else to do it. So I learned to fix everything with tape and some wire... By doing the work with a manual you learn (and mess up) quite a lot. My brother and me do lots on our MV's arguing and swearing as we go along... At least I found a way to drive when my brakes started to lock. All 4 of them locked a day earlier and the road service guy arrived when they unlocked by themselves. His advice..... Drive with braking as less as possible?.. :eek2: :nut: :pfrt: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 At least I found a way to drive when my brakes started to lock. All 4 of them locked a day earlier and the road service guy arrived when they unlocked by themselves. His advice..... Drive with braking as less as possible?.. :eek2: :nut: :pfrt: Remind me to drive behind you, and not in front, if ever in convoy :shake: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 Remind me to drive behind you, and not in front, if ever in convoy :shake: Well the problem was with the brakes working OK but they locked !! I eventually got of the motorway with 1 drum and wheel smoking!! The paint had burned of the drum.... http://www.hmvftv.com/view_video.php?viewkey=bcfe8450a1a41c200364 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 Tony! Theres an Austin Gypsy in the new issue of Land Rover Enthusiast. 1964 Fire Tender for restoration £1,500. ;-) Unfortunately, to many vehicles not enough money. :cry: Jack, you do yourself a disservice. All of us started with no skills. Possibly back in the days when my licence was written out with a quill pen cars were built that could be repaired. The average vehicle now is expected to do 200,000 faultless miles. Oil change every 20,000 miles be air conditioned and fitted with about 3,000 gadgets. No one can have the expertise to deal with every fault or repair. One thing we all as military vehicle enthusiasts (or nutters) do is encourage others especially the young. If the next generation are not encouraged and people like us do not have the patience to teach and guide them, the best that can be said is the vehicles will end up in glass case. I know a guy who has grown up and is now a good size wheel in the Modding scene. I was talking to him about such things the opther day, he is launching a series of DVD, i asked him if he was going to do a 'How to do DVD'. his reply was no there wouldn't be the intrest, kids now just buy what they want and get the supplier to fit it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted October 7, 2007 Author Share Posted October 7, 2007 I know a guy who has grown up and is now a good size wheel in the Modding scene. I was talking to him about such things the opther day, he is launching a series of DVD, i asked him if he was going to do a 'How to do DVD'. his reply was no there wouldn't be the intrest, kids now just buy what they want and get the supplier to fit it. I think this is an important point and that is why we have a section on HMVF TV for 'video manuals' as I think over time that this will be a remarkable resource for everyone around the world, yes not everyone is happy to hear themselves on tape as it were but for those of us who don't mind then I think this concept is a winner as I haven't seen it before. It is surprising by just seeing may be a short clip of a problem being solved how much of that makes instant sense and allows you the confidence to do it yourself. This is a blatant example of how mordern day technology can be used to keep history and memories alive......we should take advantage of that. This weekend we have be making a video manual of us fitting new 'troop seats' to Lawsons dump truck.......! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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