wildside Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I think you should build another !pew! and put it by your garage doors so when friends come to see you they can sit there and worship the shrine of your iron gods. you are doing a beautiful job, I try to look every day to see how you are progressing.It will be wonderful to see her out and about are you booked into honiton hill rally this year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Looks a bit like a Hammond organ. Great work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minesweeper Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 (edited) Barry's great suggestion of having the Steering Wheel Rim powder coated black has worked out well - the spokes are meant to be left bright polished aluminium. The pictures show the wheel as it has been received back from the Powder Coaters - it still has to be cleaned up. All very pleasing and at a very reasonable price - just £36. One of the things that has been on our minds for sometime is what we perceived to be a rather slack fit of the back tyres on their wheels. When the new tyres were put on the wheels some time ago, they slipped onto the wheels very easily when really they should have been a very hard tight push fit. We suspect now that there might have always been a problem with these wheels as the remains of "staples" in them was apparent - these were sometimes used to hold the tyres on the wheels. Over the recent years since they were fitted, we have noticed that they have "settled" and that it is now possible to slip a thin metal rule in a gap between the tyre and the top of the wheel. This will not do as obviously the tyres will "work" when the lorry is on the road and before long they will come off. So our only choice now for peace of mind is to get the back tyres off the wheels again and get them pressed back on with a shim between tyre and wheel - we have opted for a 1mm steel shim all the way around the circumference. So we have arranged to take the back wheels to our friend in Bedfordshire on Saturday who has the big Tyre Press. We have started to take the wheels off today - not an easy job because of all the space restrictions - and it meant moving the civilian Autocar out of the Lorry Shed into the Car Port so that we have room to move. The wheels are very heavy and we have used the engine hoist to take the weight of them. The tyre pressing is an interesting exercise and we will take some photographs of the operation to show you. Edited July 23, 2017 by Minesweeper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minesweeper Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I think you should build another !pew! and put it by your garage doors so when friends come to see you they can sit there and worship the shrine of your iron gods. you are doing a beautiful job, I try to look every day to see how you are progressing.It will be wonderful to see her out and about are you booked into honiton hill rally this year? Thanks for that. Yes, we plan to have the Dennis at Honiton Hill this year. Apart from London to Brighton i suspect that this will be its only outing in 2011. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8_10 Brass Cleaner Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 One of the things that has been on our minds for sometime is what we perceived to be a rather slack fit of the back tyres on their wheels. When the new tyres were put on the wheels some time ago, they slipped onto the wheels very easily when really they should have been a very hard tight push fit. We suspect now that there might have always been a problem with these wheels as the remains of "staples" in them was apparent - these were sometimes used to hold the tyres on the wheels. So our only choice now for peace of mind is to get the back tyres off the wheels again and get them pressed back on with a shim between tyre and wheel - we have opted for a 1mm steel shim all the way around the circumference. So we have arranged to take the back wheels to our friend in Bedfordshire on Saturday who has the big Tyre Press. We have started to take the wheels off today - not an easy job because of all the space restrictions - and it meant moving the civilian Autocar out of the Lorry Shed into the Car Port so that we have room to move. The wheels are very heavy and we have used the engine hoist to take the weight of them. The tyre pressing is an interesting exercise and we will take some photographs of the operation to show you. The traditional repair for a loose press on was to drape a sheet of hessian over the wheel before pressing the tyre on. The hessian taking up the gap and providing the grip between the iron wheel and steem band. Quite often the wheels are under size, or the rubber over size. The steel bands actually grow when you vulcanize rubber to them. Got any 670 x 160's in stock? I need 7! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 When we fitted these tyre originally, we were concerned about the fit and put a couple of layers of canvas underneath them. Unfortunately, they are still not tight enough.It has been suggested that we tack weld them around the edges but I think that they will 'work' on the rim and the welds will crack eventually so we have opted to fit them over shims. Guessing the thickness needed was pretty hard so I hope that we won't burst them now! Sorry, no solids in stock! They are pretty hard to find these days. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8_10 Brass Cleaner Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) Steve, the other trick I forgot to mention was to plaster the hessian in Salamoniac paste. The expansive properties of the paste has on the iron and steel will lock it in position. Its the old remedy for porus castings. Recipe for Salamonicac Paste = 50 to 100 parts of rust free iron filings (sifted), mixed with 1 part of sal ammoniac, and when it is to be applied, moistened with as much urine as will give it a pasty consistence. Keep moist untill you see rust forming and it'll be solid. I think your idea of steel shims, and perhaps some locktight is more pleasent idea!. The Mann steam wagon I used to drive had the bands tack welded in place, the welds cracked and all that stopped the band coming off was the proudness of the welds. Not a big problem for the front, obviously no good for the rear! I doubt you will split the band. The danger will be breaking Barry's press. Given it is still 'mandraulic' I guess he will know if it is too tight!. Edited February 24, 2011 by 8_10 Brass Cleaner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Larkin Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 When we fitted these tyre originally, we were concerned about the fit and put a couple of layers of canvas underneath them. Unfortunately, they are still not tight enough.It has been suggested that we tack weld them around the edges but I think that they will 'work' on the rim and the welds will crack eventually so we have opted to fit them over shims. Guessing the thickness needed was pretty hard so I hope that we won't burst them now! Sorry, no solids in stock! They are pretty hard to find these days. Steve Back in the 1930s when M.R.S./Edward Box had trouble with solid tyres slipping on their Scammell 100-Tonner and 45-Tonners, they purchased worn out hoses from the Liverpool Fire Brigade and put short strips around the rim as the new tyres were pressed on. Seemed to work for them. Maybe if you invite the fire brigade round with their cherry picker or ladders to help lift the seat into place, one of you could 'find' a spare hose on their fire engine, or is it an appliance these days? Incidentally, I trust you haven't forgotten that if working more than 12 inches above the ground it is now a health and safety reguirement to erect scaffolding? probably teaching grandmothers to suck eggs but don't forget that new solids need to be run-in or they are likely to burst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) A day of doing bits and pieces. It took much longer than we anticipated to get the rear wheels off the Dennis and loaded onto the Trailer - ready for the journey with them to Bedfordshire on Saturday so that the tyres could be taken off and re-fitted with shims to hold them tighter to the wheels. They are very heavy to move around and again because of the limited space, we had to move so many other things to get them out. All time consuming. Some time ago, we started to make the brackets for the headlamps - see page 94 of this blog - but they were put on "hold" when so many other more important things came along with more urgent time constraints. It has now been an opportunity to pick them up again and they are now finished - apart from final painting. Our minds have now moved on to fitting the wings and initial work on making the brackets to hold them has commenced. We have held them up where we think that they should go and have been comparing that with old photos. Preparatory work has also commenced on painting the seat with screw holes "stopped" and the first coat of aluminium primer placed on parts. Edited July 23, 2017 by Great War truck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted February 26, 2011 Author Share Posted February 26, 2011 Friday was the last full working day of the week on the lorry before we disperse again! Tim continued with painting before his departure for home in Oxford in the late afternoon and Steve continued with his black-smithing, making up wing brackets. No drawings to go by here and very much looking at photographs and bending hot metal until it fits and looks right! Some last minute concern that the wings might foul the Head Lamp brackets but it is all OK although we should have liked greater clearance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted February 26, 2011 Author Share Posted February 26, 2011 One of our main concerns has been that the tyres are not a very good fit on the rear wheels. To the extent that in some places you can push a metal ruler well in between the wheel and the tyre. This creates the possibility of the tyres falling off when on the road. They would fall inwards and get stuck on the axle as opposed to rolling off down the road, but this is still something that we would like to avoid. It seems that when the wheels were made they got the diameter a little too small. This was not an uncommon problem so the standard practice was to press them on over a sheet of canvas as per some of the previous responses. We had actually done this before, but the gap was still too much. Today we made a return trip to Barry’s place to use his hydraulic tyre press. This is a fabulous piece of equipment although it involves a great deal of manual pumping. We pumped off the tyres quite easily. Steve had prepared some 1mm steel shims to go on the wheel under the tyres. We rolled the shims to get a curve on them and hammered over the top of them to stop them sliding down as the tyre went on and then used a ratchet strap to hold the shims in place. The tyres on the first wheel went on quite easily. Too easily in fact as the tyre came off when we tried to pick up the wheel. We cut some more canvas (from one of Barry’s prized tarpaulins) and pressed the tyres on over two layers of that on top of the shim. This worked really well and after six hours we had both rear wheels with firmly fixed tyres back on the trailer ready to go. A good days work but really wonderful to have such helpful friends ready to give up their time to help us out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean N Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 ...they purchased worn out hoses from the Liverpool Fire Brigade and put short strips around the rim as the new tyres were pressed on. Seemed to work for them. Maybe if you invite the fire brigade round with their cherry picker or ladders to help lift the seat into place, one of you could 'find' a spare hose on their fire engine... Though in those days the hoses were canvas, now they're synthetic! If the tyres are fitted with canvas 'shim', does the canvas not rot after a few years allowing the wheels to come loose again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted February 27, 2011 Author Share Posted February 27, 2011 Thst is something which i have worried about as well. Hopefully by the time they rot away the things will be jammed on with rust. Fingers crossed. Today, Tony and Steve had a go at tidying up the edge of the shims: They also managed to get the wheels back on so things are looking quite promising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajmac Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Guys, It is great therapy to scan through your updates, it keeps my spirits up as the Loyd is nothing compared to your project, thanks for the continuing inspiration! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Larkin Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Though in those days the hoses were canvas, now they're synthetic! If the tyres are fitted with canvas 'shim', does the canvas not rot after a few years allowing the wheels to come loose again? The tyres on the Scammell 100-tonner didn't last anywhere near long enough for the canvas to rot. New rears every 2 months was about the average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Larkin Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 That's on hell of a size press Barry's got. If a press that size was necessary, how did the mobile presses work during the war and Dunlop operate a mobile press for changing tyres at the roadside during the 1920s? I'm told that Dunlop used to go out to the 100-tonner to change the tyres but the crew had to remove them as the wheels weighed 8cwt each. Apparently it was a case of take the weight off the wheel, plenty of grease on the road and then slide the wheels off the axle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8_10 Brass Cleaner Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) That's on hell of a size press Barry's got. If a press that size was necessary, how did the mobile presses work during the war and Dunlop operate a mobile press for changing tyres at the roadside during the 1920s? I'm told that Dunlop used to go out to the 100-tonner to change the tyres but the crew had to remove them as the wheels weighed 8cwt each. Apparently it was a case of take the weight off the wheel, plenty of grease on the road and then slide the wheels off the axle. Taking large rubbered wheels off isn't that bad, an oiled steel plate, a jack and some bars is all that is neccassary. The rears on my steam tractor are 5 foot + and they have been off quite often. It does get a bit dicey rolling them about after you've got it off though! I think Barry's press came out of a garage somewhere, and looks quite big. But bear in mind that it will have a maximum diameter and will be have been designed to be man enough for that job. The force required would be a function of the diameter and width. Most lorries and vehicles of this age will have pretty standard diameters. I expect that Leyland/Thorneycroft/Dennis/Halford etc etc all had the same size tyres. One diameter the front, one diameter the rear? A mobile press used in france say would only have to deal with this sort of diameter, perhaps a little bigger for a Sentinel Undertype rear (the biggest press one likely?). Edited February 28, 2011 by 8_10 Brass Cleaner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nz2 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Most lorries and vehicles of this age will have pretty standard diameters. I expect that Leyland/Thorneycroft/Dennis/Halford etc etc all had the same size tyres. One diameter the front, one diameter the rear? Standard sizes, sort of!! What should have been standard to a manufacture seems to change with models and usage. It would appear that during the war repairs were undertaken to get vehicles mobile again, and not necessarily the correct manufacturers parts being utilized. The other problem now encountered is the Post war situation as some tyres became less available and again alternatives were used. In the same way Tim refers to shimming and the use of canvas to take up the gap to the wheel, we have here wheels with timber inserts about 3/4 inch thick between the steel band of the tyre and the wheel. Watch the spelling. J.I. Thornycroft did not have a "e" in his surname. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bedford Boys Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Doug, did you get my email about your firewall? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8_10 Brass Cleaner Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Most lorries and vehicles of this age will have pretty standard diameters. I expect that Leyland/Thorneycroft/Dennis/Halford etc etc all had the same size tyres. One diameter the front, one diameter the rear? Standard sizes, sort of!! What should have been standard to a manufacture seems to change with models and usage. It would appear that during the war repairs were undertaken to get vehicles mobile again, and not necessarily the correct manufacturers parts being utilized. The other problem now encountered is the Post war situation as some tyres became less available and again alternatives were used. In the same way Tim refers to shimming and the use of canvas to take up the gap to the wheel, we have here wheels with timber inserts about 3/4 inch thick between the steel band of the tyre and the wheel. Watch the spelling. J.I. Thornycroft did not have a "e" in his surname. Doug Doug I used to drive a Ransommes steam wagon built out of parts, the rear axle came from New Zealand and had timber packers between the whell and press on band. I assume that it was because over here we used a metric system for the rubber sizes, the diameter quoted being the external diameter of the wheel x width. The tyres on this Ransommes were a near but bigger imperial size, so I guess either of antipodean manufacture, or American. Steve/Tim, are your rear rubbers new? they look newly manufactured. We have found that if you re-rubber old bands previously tight on the wheel, they 'grow' and come loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minesweeper Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 The letter that we have been waiting for arrived this morning - formal acceptance of our entry for the "Brighton"! We are in! Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degsy Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Glad to hear it, was there ever any doubt:D I bet they were sweating on your entry arriving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charawacky Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Tony, Glad to here you are in. Snap, I will be joining and hopefully overtaking you if I successfully make the drive down to London in the Crossley Tender! Please bring a rope as I will not be preparing my vehicle other than filing up a couple of big ends. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisg Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 The letter that we have been waiting for arrived this morning - formal acceptance of our entry for the "Brighton"! We are in! Tony Can't wait to see it finished Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Steve/Tim, are your rear rubbers new? they look newly manufactured. We have found that if you re-rubber old bands previously tight on the wheel, they 'grow' and come loose. Yes, the tyres are new in that we have had a polyurethane fork-truck tyre mix applied to the original bands that we removed. The bands were not that tight when we removed them and, unfortunately, the sandblaster got a bit carried away and blasted the treads of the wheels as well as the spokes. This removed all of the old rust, of course, giving even more clearance. In hindsight, perhaps we should have shortened the bands before re-rubbering but it would have been very difficult to know how much metal to remove. We did the same thing with the Autocar tipper but that worked very well. Of course, with that one, the wheels are wooden so they were not blasted and the bands were tighter to start with. We are gaining experience the hard way! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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