It's not April 1st, is it?

[Jack]

In fairness though chaps, I really wouldn't want HMVF to be turn into a MVT agonies aunts page. It would soon turn into a view dull site. It isn't here for the MVT to use it as a place to answer members complaints or compliments.

 

Having an MVT forum wouldn't work because it takes a shed load work and drive to create a forum like this, it means that your family gets rather fed up with not having the 'old man' around all the time. You also have to have a great bunch of friends around to help you with the site, you have to work long hours, make decisions, take advice, listen, learn, beg, steal and burrow. I don't think a MVT forum would last long plus the fact that they don't like forums or at least they won't link to them.....

 

There is enough in this months Editors Column to be debated.

 

Jack.

[Jolly Jeeper]

Here's a few points in response to recent posts in this thread;

 

1; Don't know about GL's alias or not but he says he has a Land Rover so could be aware that I edit a LR magazine from even a quick browse in Smiths.

 

2; Just to be clear I can confidently say that John Carroll is a pseudonym for John Carroll, member 3803 of the MVT.

 

3; The MVT Gen Sec, Simon Bromley is a great guy. Over the years I've bought Jeep bits off him, sold him a trailer, been on a New Year's Day off-road Jeep Run with him and more. He does a difficult job very well.

 

4; Forums are a part of life in hobbies now. There are numerous ones about LRs all well supported. Some are supported or sponsored by the commercial LR mags, some are independent and some are club ones. The posters talk about everything and anything including the LR magazine I edit. We live with it, have an occasional browse, make the odd post to provide information or stop the (very occasional) silly rumour getting out of hand. There's always gossip about the LR magazine shows for example but generally we all just co-exist. A great example is the LR Series II Club forum.

 

5; Finally, here's one of the Jeep pics that Windscreen didn't use...

 

JC

 

[Gerry Khann]

Crumbs, I’m now famous! Do I qualify to go on that other silly thread about famous people I have met?

 

I haven’t bothered reading this forum for a few days and have come back to find I have become a pseudonym. Clive Stevens (is that his real name?) somehow knows I am not a MVT member. Well that is a blow when I less money in my wallet and have a little card to show for it. There are MVT people up here in the north of the county who have even met me but how can I prove that I am me to you lot? Then again, do I really care as its perhaps more fun to now be your “official spokesman” for the MVT.

 

I am not quite sure about Clive’s logic that because Gerald Wiley was a pseudonym, he assumes all Geralds must now be pen names…. and perhaps I should be offended by Clive’s outburst “Who the hell would give themselves a psuodynom of Gerald Leggitt ???” Well perhaps this can be a new thread on the name you would pick for yourself. I remember I was only very small when my parents picked my name and as I could not speak words, I didn’t have much to say at the time. Leggitt was my Dad’s last name and my Grandpa’s before that. We are also not the more common Leggett and I have two t’s, not one as FV601 John has trimmed me down to. The best thing of all is I had thought of a cracking pseudonym for myself to use on this forum, but filled in my proper details correctly to join, expecting that at some point I would add my made-up name.

 

It is also pleasing that Clive thinks I am well informed. That does not seem to be a requirement for many of the posts on this forum. (What punishment will I suffer for that statement?) I have come from the MG (car not gun) world where there is too much rivalry there for my liking by small minorities. I bought a Land Rover which happened to be ex-army and one thing leads to the next and I now have an interest in military LR’s. I met a few boys up here who encouraged me to go to their MVT meeting and I was made welcome and made some new friends and contacts. Meanwhile I had a look round the Internet and came across this forum site by accident and started reading the posts. As the derogatory comments I read did not did not match the MVT members that I have come across, I took more interest and eventually, and for the first time ever, decided to respond.

 

It is clear to me that the name (pseudonym?) of the game seems to be to slag the MVT off on this site. An easy subject to poke fun at was the motions that have been proposed, but because of a few maybe silly, maybe fun, maybe serious motions, a small group of people are having a field day. Heaven forbid, the MVT seems to allow free speech (what our vehicles were used to fight for, etc) but this group can then come on here and have a cheap pop at the club, but when you ask you find none will actually make any positive contribution. They can’t even make the little effort to go to the AGM and stand up and ask about these trivial points they are so keen to bang on about. Then when you ask them direct questions, they change to a new topic, so from whinging about motions, it goes to the grammar in Windscreen. When that doesn’t go their way, then they have a go at the people who stick up for the car club in question, so now I am in the firing line! Well that is excellent. You don’t know who I am and why should you, but thanks for building me and my contribution up.

 

Actually Clive, I didn’t know John Carroll (I see ‘Carroll’ has a similar letter layout to ‘Leggitt’……) had anything to do with MV magazines. He himself confirmed he edits a 4x4 magazine. I can also tell you that the editor of Practical Classics was Martin Moore but I think it has changed now. I am not sure what either of these points show, except that I read car magazines. Try going on the Internet Clive instead of sniping at the MVT (and me) – its amazing what you can find! Aha, I see you involved with Operation Bolero and I would guess your posts are an opportunity to promote it. You say you are a MVT member but your role doesn’t seem very supportive. You also ask if others were that out-spoken within a month of their membership card arriving (oh that’s right, the card you say I haven’t got anyway). Well if you did check back through my very few posts, you will see they started before I paid my subs! So I am not new to the classic car hobby, I have owned my military LR for nearly a year, and I have visited this forum on dozens (well maybe ten?) occasions before joining and making my thoughts, which aren’t very deep, known. I would apologise as I hadn’t realised there is an etiquette to follow before you should make a serious post. Do you really have to write all these pointless one-liners, make all this incestuous congratulatory remarks to the core gang and chase all these irrelevant threads? I thought this was a site to discuss matters relating to old military vehicles. Just try and find one interesting thread anywhere on here to do with vehicles. It’s just a pen pal club where many of the contributors have too much time on their hands.

 

So lets see you pick the bones out of that. I am sure you will have a real go at me and I don’t care. If you are really horrid I’ll paint the Landy red and put some white-spokes on.

 

Gerry (Leggitt/Marsden/Wiley/andthePaceMakers/Built/Can/Halliwell/Boam/Cho/Miah)

NOW THAT IS TOO LONG!!

[Marmite!!]

Gerald,

 

you must see that your posts come across as a bit suspicious.. the first post you made on the Forum saying "Hi" was on this thread & the next 4 posts was defending the MVT.. I have looked & see you have made no other contributions to the Forum, may be you could share some photos/info of your Landrover with everyone??

 

As for your comment..

 

I thought this was a site to discuss matters relating to old military vehicles.

 

It is, so why haven't you joined in any of the discussions on here instead of on just this thread??

 

Just try and find one interesting thread anywhere on here to do with vehicles. It’s just a pen pal club where many of the contributors have too much time on their hands.

 

Obviously you have not read many of the threads, the Forum has amongst it's members many respected people within the hobby who contribute regularly, if you look back over previous posts you will see wide ranging subjects, History, Events & Show Reports, Restorations, Technical Advice, personal Stories- many from ex-servicemen, info on Museums & Battlefields.. the list goes on.. oh yes & not forgetting Clive Elliot's mystery object..

 

Try going on the Internet Clive instead of sniping at the MVT (and me) – its amazing what you can find! Aha, I see you involved with Operation Bolero and I would guess your posts are an opportunity to promote it. You say you are a MVT member but your role doesn’t seem very supportive.

 

Hmmm....... I'm sure Clive will be replying shortly on this one ;-) :whistle:

 

Lee

 

MVT Member 13898

 

 

[FV601 (R.I.P.)]

Well well well

 

Smack me round the head with a wet mackerel

 

Gerald

 

I am so very pleased to know that you are not, as was first suspected, Preston acting under a Nom de plume.

 

I also apologise for inadvertently snipping your surname by 1 letter, it's a symptom of fat finger disease and when coupled to a laptop keyboard can play havoc on ones normally perfect spelling. ( My grammar is crap though :dunno:)

 

As Lee has pointed out, Clive will most probably be answering your comments shortly, so I shall leave that particular area to him.

 

That said, as Lee has also pointed out the initial "tone" of your posts did appear to infer a more sinister side to your position regarding things.

 

As far as attending AGM's and such as has been previously stated, been there, done that and have the tee shirt. However as a nearly new member of the MVT you obviously have not ...........yet, I hasten to add, as I would imagine you might just be attending this coming one.

 

As John Carroll has stated forums are indeed a place of discussion be that good or bad, and as such comments made on this particular forum regarding the MVT have been the result of MVT members airing their views, finding similar occurences up and down the country, and finding different attitudes from varying area's of the MVT.

 

This has come about due to those particular members area's not being as "welcoming, amenable, friendly and supportive" as the particular area you happen to belong to.

 

Those of us that do voice a complaint here are not just from one area but are spread around the country, and it would appear that the complaints aired have a similar ring to them.

 

That said, the MVT in general is indeed a good club, It's not perfect, it is stuck in a time warp at times but all in all it tries to please as many people as it can. Sometimes fails at that but hey, so do many other clubs. So what you see as "knocking" the MVT is not really that at all, it is an active discussion in a forum enviroment to facilitate the betterment of the club by indentifying its deficency's.

 

It was due to the deficency's of our local area that a group of us went ahead and formed Essex Armour and Softskins MV Group which successfully put on a major show last year and are doing so again this year, as well as attending upwards of 20 smaller events and several larger ones under our own banner. But thats another matter.

 

It must say something however that in an MVT area that has some 250 members, less than 10% turn up at monthly meetings, of which EA&SS make up a third of those attending. Makes you think eh?

 

It would be good, as has been suggested, if you could perhaps join in other discussions on other threads that way you could also add to the very good work that is being done here.

 

Look forward to hearing from you

 

John

 

MVT Member 13666

IMPS Member 2715

101 club Member 1719

EMLRA Member (dammit where did I put that membership card )

Founder Member of EA&SS ( "I am a name not a number")

[Degsy]

Before the days of the internet the letters pages of enthusiasts magazines were full of the sort of comments/arguments that are raised here, there is nothing new. There are undoubtedly faults with the MVT but man has never attained complete perfection with anything and until something better then a committee is thought of wemust accept the imperfections.

An old saying comes to mind, "You can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time but you can't please all of the people all of the time"

This is not meant as a defence of or attack on the MVT or any other group or organisation, merely an observation on human nature.

[Marmite!!]

Try going on the Internet Clive .......... I see you involved with Operation Bolero and I would guess your posts are an opportunity to promote it.

 

Almost forgot the blatant advertising ;-) Bringing the landrover Gerald :dunno:

 

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e132/safariswing/bunkerhmvf.jpg[/img]

http://www.essex-armour-softskins.co.uk/essex%20bunker%20bash.html

[M5Clive]

Sorry for the delay chaps - Had a director's meeting for most of yesterday and today i've been taking advantage of the glorious Suffolk sunshine and painting the fence in the garden - only just had chance to take a peek!

 

POINT 1

 

"Clive Stevens (is that his real name?) somehow knows I am not a MVT member. Well that is a blow when I less money in my wallet and have a little card to show for it."

 

REPLY - Very Clever, but don't think I am daft enough to to fall at the first herdel and publicly state on HMVF how I know that Gerald Leggitt is not an MVT member and has unquestionably not joined in recent weeks as per a claim in his earlier threads. Just rest assured that I wouln't be daft enough to state that fact without first doing some homework!

 

"The best thing of all is I had thought of a cracking pseudonym for myself to use on this forum, but filled in my proper details correctly to join, expecting that at some point I would add my made-up name."

 

REPLY - I now even have firm proof as quoted above that Gerald Leggitt is indeed using his real name.

 

POINT 2

 

"It is clear to me that the name (pseudonym?) of the game seems to be to slag the MVT off on this site. An easy subject to poke fun at was the motions that have been proposed, but because of a few maybe silly, maybe fun, maybe serious motions, a small group of people are having a field day."

 

REPLY - Had you have been on this site for any length of time, you would know that I have frequently jumped in with both feet to support the MVT and what they are all about on several previous threads. As far as the motions for the forthcoming AGM goes, you claim that it is a small group of people? Well, when you are an Area Secretary and receive three independent phone calls from your local members (in Suffolk) complaining about these motions in quite a serious manner, it does leave you a little questioning as to what the hell they are all about, because I for sure don't know the answer and when it comes to poking fun, some of those motions was a bit like red rag to a bull - Even some of the higher echelons of the MVT raised an eye-brow or two! So that small group of people you claim, reach as far as Suffolk at least and I'm sure other Area's members made a comment or two about it.

 

POINT 3

 

"They can’t even make the little effort to go to the AGM and stand up and ask about these trivial points they are so keen to bang on about."

 

REPLY - I have been to at least 8 (probably more) MVT AGM's over the last 15 years from Bletchley Park to Gaydon and have seen them chaired by Rex Ward, Colin Smith, John Smith, Charles Brittain-Jones etc etc.

 

POINT 4

 

"Aha, I see you involved with Operation Bolero and I would guess your posts are an opportunity to promote it."

 

REPLY - You could say I'm just a little involved with Operation Bolero! Of course my posts are an opportunity to promote and I must have done well for you to notice them!! Promotion of course, along with a good selection of quality photographs for HMVF members to enjoy, but as you say "I thought this was a site to discuss matters relating to old military vehicles. Just try and find one interesting thread anywhere on here to do with vehicles." just proves that you havent even bothered to study any of them, particularly the pre D-Day convoy photograph under Op Bolero. Incidentally, the Windscreen magazine, which I understand that you are more than familiar with, also did an excellent job of promoting the event along with the Greensheet, if you happened to read that either!

 

POINT 5

 

"You say you are an MVT member but your role doesn’t seem very supportive."

 

REPLY - You clearly haven't seen many of the MVT publications over the past 10 years. If you had you would have seen articles on Dads Army Reunions, Fairford International Air Tattoo show report 1998, Band of Brothers reunions, History of the 506th PIR in the Kennet Valley, Gathering of Eagles Show Report 2004 and 2006, many magazine cover and rear cover photographs submitted by myself, 4 years worth of Wiltshire Area Reports, 3 years worth of Suffolk Area Reports, Bart Vanderveen Obitiory 1998, many letters to the editors particularly regarding Beltring show etc etc etc - And this is just remembering things off the top of my head!! Incidentally, all these articles, photographs and other submissions have been totally voluntary, whereas other MV related magazines offer money to contributors, so so-much for my unsupportive role towards the MVT. On and by the way, did I mention that I am also voluntarily planning and designing the photographs for next years MVT Calander? But somehow, I think you may already know that.

 

So just how supportive does the average MVT member have to be in your eyes Gerald? :roll:

 

POINT 6

 

"You also ask if others were that out-spoken within a month of their membership card arriving (oh that’s right, the card you say I haven’t got anyway)."

 

REPLY - Please see reply to Point 1

 

POINT 7

 

"I thought this was a site to discuss matters relating to old military vehicles. Just try and find one interesting thread anywhere on here to do with vehicles. It’s just a pen pal club where many of the contributors have too much time on their hands"

 

REPLY - Yes, where you are clearly one of these such people with too much time on your hands, particularly with access to a pc during the daytime hours, which could possibly give another indicatation and to who the illusive Gerald Leggitt may be - Cos he clearly doesn't work 9-5 on the checkouts in ASDA!!

 

Have you tried the Range Wrecks thread for good measure???

 

POINT 8

 

"If you are really horrid I’ll paint the Landy red and put some white-spokes on."

 

REPLY - Just do anything to make it stand out from the heard - But I'm not sure if the French Fire Servcie used them or not :-o :-o

 

CONCLUSION

 

I read your comments with genuine interest. Some of your remarks lead me to think that you know me and have known me for several years. You clearly don't like HMVF as has been demonstrated in your concluding paragraph, so I'm sure you won't be hanging around here for long, which would equally be an ideal and convient opportunity for you to literally 'Leg-it' as your name suggests, thus having an easy escape from the deeper pickle that you are getting into. This thread has created quite a following and more and more people are keener to know what behind it all - Me too!

 

"An easy subject to poke fun at was the motions that have been proposed, but because of a few maybe silly, maybe fun, maybe serious motions, a small group of people are having a field day."

 

This sentenance particularly intrigued me - Why are you so concerned about this then Gerald????

 

As a kind of irony, I didn't actually have much of an axe to grind about your opinions re HMVF or the MVT. Some of your earlier points were valid and dare I say it, a couple on your last reply were also quite prudent. My only gripe is the issue of anyone hiding behind anothers name when making such comments. I have always put my name before commenting and taken the flak (or the credit) accordingly.

 

Lastly, I don't think anyone did quite catch what your MVT membership number was Gerald - If you notice, most people on here have put there's under there individual comments :-D

 

Clive D Stevens

 

MVT Membership Number 6627

[Snapper]

Clive, I think you have put your point in as an informed and fair manner as possible and I don't think anyone can have any complaints. I am not sure if there is a way to advance this thread any further. I don't agree with MVT bashing - or any bashing for that matter - without foundation. The forum is the right place for people to have their say and long may it continue. Whatever club we belong to we have the right to take our views to the elected committees and air them at AGMs. It is wholly misplaced for anyone to take away the impression that this forum is here solely for the purpose of

any named club bashing. There is plenty of serious and light hearted stuff on here that has nothing whatsoever to do with gripes or politics or partisanship. If it was, I wouldn't be here because I hate politics with a passion.

 

Mark Barnes

MVT membership no 13729

 

[LeeEnfield]

Clive, I think you have put your point in as an informed and fair manner as possible and I don't think anyone can have any complaints. I am not sure if there is a way to advance this thread any further. I don't agree with MVT bashing - or any bashing for that matter - without foundation. The forum is the right place for people to have their say and long may it continue. Whatever club we belong to we have the right to take our views to the elected committees and air them at AGMs. It is wholly misplaced for anyone to take away the impression that this forum is here solely for the purpose of

any named club bashing. There is plenty of serious and light hearted stuff on here that has nothing whatsoever to do with gripes or politics or partisanship. If it was, I wouldn't be here because I hate politics with a passion.

 

Mark Barnes

MVT membership no 13729

 

 

 

 

HEAR, Hear............

 

 

Andy Spencer

MVT membership no 16061

[LeeEnfield]

Hey, JC,...........

 

Great Pic of Gwendoline,..........can we see some more,.....without the jeep,.................... ;-) :-D :-D :-D

[Great War truck]

And "Hear, Hear" from here.

 

Tim (too)

 

MVT Membership No 9137

[ian2b]

So who is going to the MVT AGM on the 22nd April, will you be there Mr Leggitt as it would be nice to meet you and any other member going.

 

Ian

MVT Membership No 11160

 

[Great War truck]

Apparently it is!

 

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c309/Greatwartruck/April1.jpg[/img]

 

And yes they were all April fools jokes!

 

Unforunately, many people missed the joke as the date of the meeting was moved from the original April 1 date to April 22nd.

 

Tim (too)

[Marmite!!]

Apparently it is!

 

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c309/Greatwartruck/April1.jpg[/img]

 

And yes they were all April fools jokes!

 

 

 

Tim (too)

 

 

Not according to the emails I received from from Preston & Simon Bromley they weren't...

[Great War truck]

Dont shoot the messenger. I am just saying what i heard at the AGM. Proposals 2, 4, 5, 6, and 7 were intended as April fools jokes and were withdrawn.

 

Tim (too)

[Marmite!!]

Dont shoot the messenger. Tim (too)

 

 

Sorry if that's how it sounded :oops:

 

it sounds like a bit of back peddling to me though.. if it was why didn't they just say that in their emails :dunno: unfortunately we were tied up with a show meeting today or we would of been there..

[Marmite!!]

So did Mr.Leggitt reveal himself at the meeting :dunno:

[Great War truck]

Yes i agree, it could quite easily be back pedalling on some of them, i dont think that we will ever know for sure. However a few suggestions were so mad that they had to be spoofs of some sort or other.

 

Saying that, people may well look at us (rightly or wrongly - i am not going to start a new issue here) as contributing to green house gasses. The point was raised that if we as a club can say that we contribute £xxx to the national arboretum each year to help offset any green houses gasses that might not be such a bad thing to throw back at any criticiser. No one has ever accused me of contributing to green houses gasses in my Jeep although I have been accused of glorifying war, tresspassing, being a "Yank-lover" and destroying a hedge which apart from the first one is all true (my wife is American after all and i am really really sorry about the hedge).

 

Preston did ask if there was a Gerald Leggit in the room. Everyone looked around but no one answered. So i would think that the jury may still be out on that one.

 

Tim (too)