It's not April 1st, is it?

[Jack]

 

I was under the impression that we only use timber products specifically grown for this purpose in this country and in Europe/ Scandinavia. There are countless forrests which wouldn't be there otherwise.

 

Sort of true. The Forestry Commission was set up in 1919, to safe guard timber supplies - just in case there was another war.....

 

This was the start of the destruction of our ancient woodlands. Woodlands that have been there since pre Norman Conquest. The rest were mainly Medieval woodlands. England's empire was built on the back of our woodlands, our society wouldn't be here if it wasn't for our woodlands. We continued to over plant our ancient woodlands up to WW2 when of course we need every single tree we could get our hands on because of the blockade - Woodsmen's were offered reserved occupations.

 

The sad thing is that when WW2 ended - we then entered the Cold War so we still had to ensure that we had national timber reserves so we continued to plant softwoods. We also had the common agricultural policy/subsides to contend with.

 

When the Berlin wall came down was really the end of this madness as the world was, in theory, at peace, plus the fact modern warfare doesn't consume vast amounts of timber.

 

The sadness of all of this is that we lost a vast majority of our ancient woodlands (which can never be replaced) for nothing as we import most of timber from Scandinavia - it is cheaper to do so. We can import it cheaper than it costs to fell our own timber. The evergreen plantations that you see on your travels are from the late 60's and from the 70's - they are in fact relics from the Cold War.............

 

 

With regards to the FC now removing softwoods (which were all planted on ancient woodland sites) and converting them back to broadleaf woodlands. I know this policy well - I was part of the policy making group.

 

 

 

[ArtistsRifles]

 

<snipped>

 

With regards to the FC now removing softwoods (which were all planted on ancient woodland sites) and converting them back to broadleaf woodlands. I know this policy well - I was part of the policy making group.

 

 

 

Thanks Jack!!! :-) :-) Some good news from an otherwise sad thread.

[Great War truck]

Thanks Jack!!! :-) :-) Some good news from an otherwise sad thread.

 

 

Yes, perhaps we should lock this one now to prevent any bursting forth of emotion.

 

Tim (too)

[Jolly Jeeper]

Richard Notton, I am so glad that you started this thread because ‘It’s not April 1st, is it?’ was exactly my first thought when I opened Windscreen last weekend. I have registered on this site purely to respond positively to your posts.

 

I’m not really fussed about points 1, 2 and 3 (apart from the day dreaming in point 1 of course) in the proposed motions for the MVT’s AGM however points 4, 5 and 6 have been bothering me on and off since I read them.

 

It strikes me that the guy who has written these has little concept of what the MVT is and I’d be interested to know what colour the sky is in his world? If, as I believe, the MVT is nothing more than an owners club for people who have old vehicles then some members of the CoM need to take a more realistic view of things.

 

Motion 4

 

Team building exercises are for management training for ambitious young suits from offices. Is this proposal from some sort of management textbook that we should be impressed by quotes from? Is a bunch of military vehicle duffers building a raft in the pouring rain in Wales going to achieve anything? Should members’ money be spent on such nonsense?

 

A last thought on this point; we’d get better value from members’ money if we bought the Windscreen team a dictionary and a book on grammar. They might learn what to do with an apostrophe for a start and avoid cringe-worthy errors like ‘a life in green surge…’ (just one from the latest Windscreen). How can we expect politicians and the like to respect our hobby and take us seriously if we can’t even spell serge right? Or get the name of the FBHVC right?

 

Motion 5

 

Maybe it’s a local authority political correctness handbook that turned up. The MVT is merely a club that there’s no obligation to join not a place of work where someone has to earn a living and may feel discriminated against.

 

Further given that the MVT has, amongst its membership, the weekend Nazi dressers-up, who represent one of the evilest of regimes and one that persecuted blacks, Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, the disabled and more perhaps there won’t be too many one-legged, black blokes wishing they could join the MVT…

 

Motion 6

 

Psychological profiling of the membership in case we turn out to be terrorists? Again what colour is the sky in this guy’s world? A ‘threat to the trust?’ Never mind the cost or other practical considerations eh? It’s only a f****** ‘car’ club.

 

Motion 7

 

‘One member of the CoM should be designated as ‘Tree Officer’ to undertake a random inspection of members’ trees.’ Really? It’s a club we join because we want to not out of any sense of obligation. Global warming is an issue but this wanting to police the membership attitude really sticks in my throat.

 

The attitude in many of these proposals reminds me of the union blokes in big factories; they claim to want to represent the membership but really, just want to sit in an office and shuffle paper as they perceive the bosses do.

 

More worrying is the fact that many of the MVT committee frequently pat themselves on the back in print in Windscreen (just look at the Chairman’s Mumblings on the news page of the MVT website) about how great Windscreen is and in some sort of way have agreed to pay the current team to produce it for three years. Firstly it’s not great, in fact Windscreen is pitiful in terms of spelling, standard of grammar (just look at the Chairman’s Mumblings on the news page of the MVT website), style of design and order of content. Secondly, as Windscreen is the only point of contact many members have with the club I would have thought that the membership should be consulted more on such an important part of the MVT.

 

Still the editor wants to be re-elected to the CoM with the singularly unfunny joke that if we don’t vote for him he’ll get our Windscreen magazines lost in the post. My sides are aching from laughing or maybe they’re not…

 

I have been a member of the MVT for more than ten years but I’m not sure that I’m going to be for much longer. The renewal notice came this week and I don’t know if I’ll send it back or not if this is the way the MVT is going.

 

[ackack]

My thoughts exactly only I didn't have the bottle to put it as strongly !

[Jolly Jeeper]

Thanks buddy. I was going to post it without my real name but figured that if it was to count for anything I couldn't hide behind a pseudonym.

 

I guess it does mean that there probably won't be any of my pictures in Windscreen in future!

 

JC

[ackack]

That shouldn't be so unless the MVT have been really offended by this thread, in which case they obviously believe in the motions !

[Snapper]

I see no problems with your posts, John, because the issue is obviously important to you. I have to agree about things to do with presentation and grammar. I have discussed this with Jack before (Though I must say this is not to do with the forum area of this site). I do not believe that Windscreen benefits from the services of a professional sub-editor. Having said that, there must be a level of quality control in terms of proper spelling. These are issues which do apply to credibility. I don't know enough about websites to offer a professional opinion on design or preparation - but I do know what is and is not dull. I have worked in the printed media business for thirty-two years (with a brief gap to recoil from KF shirts), albeit as a backroom boy in many respects and never as a fully professional journalist. I don't truly believe that being a "professional" in real terms is as important as trying to be professional in how things are done. It is my belief that this site will progressively set the kind of example you are looking for in so many areas. Stick around and keep up your input.

[ArtistsRifles]

<snipped>

Motion 4

 

Team building exercises are for management training for ambitious young suits from offices. Is this proposal from some sort of management textbook that we should be impressed by quotes from? Is a bunch of military vehicle duffers building a raft in the pouring rain in Wales going to achieve anything? Should members’ money be spent on such nonsense?

</snipped>

 

 

 

Why would they want to build rafts when they can call on perfectly serviceable DUKW's, Stalwarts (NO funny comments from the Essex posse please!), Ford GPA's etc.??? :-) :-)

 

Sorry - felt I had to inject a wee bit of levity as I've had a goodly number of years suffering at the hands of said suits. They usually manage to fall IN the river...

 

Have to admit, though that I find myself agreeing with your sentiments John - and I've only been a member of the MVT for a year!!!

[Gerry Khann]

Hi again

 

I have just spent half an hour typing a message only to loose it trying to use the spell check!

 

Anyway, what I was saying was, isn't John Carroll a professional writer who edits one of the off road magazines? If so, then of course he will find mistakes a club magazine. Do I detect an he wants to take over the Windscreen magazine, or perhaps he is a bit afraid of the competion ! I say that people who live in glasshouses shouldn't grow tomatoes.

 

Reading John's very serious thoughts you would think you were voting for your MP in a general election. Anyway, I thought the Military Vehicle Trust AGM was yet to come. Reading John's deep thinking on these motions, it would seem to have already been passed, or does he know something we club members don't? If these things are passed, then I want my money back too as I am not going to be phsyco-profiled just for having a green landrover - and I have only just joined!

 

So why are these club matters being aired on here when I bet half the people here are not MVT members? Have any of you moaning minnies even bothered to get in touch with the guys who run the club for you. I bet not as it is much easier to just sit there at a keyboard and throw the tomatoes you grew in your greenhouses. Instead of whinging and moaning, think what you could put into any club you join. I will put my money where my mouth is and try and put something into a hobby and the club I have chosen, otherwise what is the point?

 

So you get one bit of paper you don't like and the sky falls in. John's answer is to threaten to not renew his membership. If you have been a member of any club for 10 years and something comes up you disagree with, do something about it - is your club for goodness sake. Just walking away is a real cop out and solves nothing. Get up off your backside and do something about it in a positive way. John doesn't like these proposals as he thinks they might (MIGHT) be serious. Or he doesn't like these proposals because he thinks they might be meant to be funny BUT not to his brand of humour. Oh dear me. Its only one tiny bit of an effin car club! Make a little more effort than just blubbing on a forum.

 

I tell you what was a positive input into this hooby and that is the people who took the trouble to send me suppliers of landrover parts after my first message. Thank you to them.

 

Yes there will be spelling mistakes in this and I am not losing it all agian by risking my spell checking skills.

 

Gerry

[Jolly Jeeper]

Yes Gerald you are absolutely right I edit 4x4 and LRW magazines but one thing I'd say is that I wanted a Willys Jeep since I was at school and owned my first British bike and first Land Rover before I'd written a word for any magazine and will have my Harley and my Jeeps and Land Rovers long after I stop.

 

I don't think I'm throwing stones in the way you describe and the analogy I'd use is this; if I took my Jeep to be painted professionally and it came back covered in runs I wouldn't want to pay for it. At the moment Windscreen is that Jeep covered in runs because the membership pays wages for the compilation of Windscreen.

 

As for moaning on a forum I am responding to others' posts because I have no other way of sharing my concerns. Have been a member of the MVT since 1985, not in an area so only have regular contact with the MVT through the magazine although I have met people at Beltring, Normandy, Overlord, Bovvy, Elvington etc.

 

Finally, just to show I do put something back into this hobby here's a draft of a presentation I made at a seminar for classic vehicle clubs at Gaydon late last year. I went there in my own time and at my own expense to make this presentation. It caused some discussion but I was surprised by how few people in the room disagreed with its content. Some of the points may be of relevance here.

 

Cheers

JC

 

 

Classic Car and Bike Clubs – the future?

 

1. Why am I qualified to address this meeting?

 

I’ve been something of a gearhead since I was kid, bought first car – a ’68 Morris Traveller in 1978, and joined the fledgling Morris Minor Owners Club in the same year. Bought my first motorcycle, a ’71 Triumph Daytona in 1982 and joined the Triumph Owners motorcycle club. I’ve been in a variety of car and bike clubs ever since including the Military Vehicle Trust since 1985 and the Land Rover Series I Club since 1989. I’ve competed in and completed the LE JOG historic endurance rally three times. In addition I’ve worked on special interest automotive magazines full time since 1988. These include 4x4 Driver, Back Street Heroes, Live to Ride, Land Rover World and 4x4 magazines. I’ve written around 20 books on specialist motoring subjects including classic American bikes, Jeeps, classic American Pick-ups, British Bikes, tractors, Chopped Harleys and so on.

 

I’m not claiming to know it all; what follows are my opinions with illustrative examples rather than concrete facts but I feel that specialist magazines address the same groups of people as classic car and bike clubs so even if you don’t agree with what I say it might help formulate your own ideas. The examples I have used are ones I am familiar with but I’m sure that all of you in this room will be able to relate them to examples of your own specialist subjects.

 

2. World is changing

 

Legislation to do with classic vehicles is getting tighter; SORN, SVA, asbestos in brakes, solvent in paint,.. It’s getting harder for clubs to put on events because of ever more stringent health and safety legislation. The drink/drive laws have effectively called time on the traditional monthly ‘pub meet’ but this presentation is more about the demographics of classic car and bike enthusiasts. In classic vehicle club terms the changes that will affect club activities and membership include the increasing reliance on the internet and changing lifestyles in terms of leisure time, holidays etc.

 

Perhaps, for example, people increasingly find the ‘static row of classic cars on the grass of a stately home’ type rally to be dull hence the trend to more ‘doing’ such as the boom in classic competitive rallying.

 

3. Cars and bikes get older

 

This sounds obvious but is important. While there are exceptions, people are, to a great extent, inspired by vehicles ten to twenty years older than themselves which means that people age with the cars they like and as they get older they can afford the cars they desired as youngsters.

 

I am an example of this; born in ’61 and am fascinated by late sixties and seventies cars and bikes. I own or have owned ’68 Minor Traveller, ’71 Triumph Daytona, ’74 Jeep CJ5, ’73 Land Rover Series III, ’67 Land Rover Series IIA, ’77 Indian Enfield 350 Bullet amongst others.

 

Younger people are inspired by younger cars and then get older with them. Each generation does it, why else did Classic Bike magazine start including Japanese bikes? Why else did Practical Classics start featuring performance cars of the 80s? There are some exceptions of course, one of which, I believe, is the scene around the air-cooled Volkswagens – buses or Beetles, the earlier the better. Another is the hot rod scene, admittedly a minority interest, which seems to be undergoing something of a renaissance. In this area modifications to old cars – thirties Fords etc - are essential and its participants are aspiring to an age when cars much older than the previously mentioned ‘twenty year’ idea were initially modified rather than when they were new. And for those who abhor modifications remember that hot rods have been exhibited at Pebble Beach and Goodwood.

 

Exotica will always have an enduring appeal but think about the Morris Minor OC (an organisation I feel qualified to speak about having been a member for 27 years), typical of many clubs for ‘run-of-the mill’ machines; it’s fair to assume that as the Minor gets older – the last ones now having been made 35 years ago – that the number of youngsters who will want one will decline dramatically. Ask yourselves how many people will want a 1962 four-door saloon with rattly trunions in ten years time?

 

This has a potential impact on prices of Minors – the price of Convertibles (the exotic Minor) is already well past its peak - but more importantly it has a potential impact on the size of a car club’s membership. In this case if demand for Minors drops, the numbers likely to join the owners’ club will also decline.

 

4. Supply and Demand

 

In the case of the Minor the supply may exceed demand but the opposite is true with many military vehicles. The restored military vehicle scene got started in the early seventies by people who, as children in WWII, remembered seeing military vehicles – especially those of the US Army - running about. At this time ‘every’ garage had an ex-military truck as a tow truck and farmers had Willys Jeeps, all just waiting to be bought for restoration. They were bought up and restored by guys in their 20s and 30s many of whom collected more than one. The scene endured with both classes for MVs at other events and dedicated MV shows. Fast forward to 2004 – the 60th anniversary of D-Day – in Normandy when the overwhelming numbers of MVs were US Dodges and French Hotchkiss Jeeps. The less numerous but often more interesting British machines were all at home in garages still owned by the 1st generations of MV enthusiasts now in their 50s and 60s who had been on plenty of previous tours to Normandy.

 

The reason that Dodge WCs and Hotchkiss M201 (Licence-built Willys MBs) were so numerous is that the Norwegian Army had recently disposed of its long-stockpiled Dodges and the French Army had disposed of its M201s. These plentiful machines had become the entry-level MV for the younger enthusiasts – this seems to be one area where younger enthusiasts are drawn to much older vehicles.

 

Another example is Harley-Davidsons. While I was at Back Street Heroes (c1991-94) magazine Harleys were in huge demand but expensive (the Evo engine introduced in 1983 changed the face of Harley riding) and the only plentiful classic Harley in the UK was the 45cid WWII Army bike. These fetched a lot of money for largely worn out, 40-plus year old bikes but as the Evo models became more plentiful and filtered into the second-hand market, the disproportionately high demand for 45s declined. Now though these great bikes have become sought after classics revered by a minority of HD riders and MV enthusiasts. Harley-Davidson runs its own owners’ club, Harley Owners Group (HOG) which is a slick, corporate marketing exercise but successful nonetheless.

 

Basically if something is available and cheap people will drive it and a scene may develop around it; Minors – once were cheap fun cars, a scene developed and prices rocketed but rust and maintenance took its toll and things peaked. Series I, II and III Land Rovers were what established a Land Rover enthusiast scene. The Suzuki SJ410/413 of the late eighties and early nineties was popular and fun and became trendy. Possibly because these vehicles rusted quickly it’s only a minority of hardcore fans who still drive them.

 

5. Commercial Magazines – blessing or curse?

 

Scenes around specific vehicles start unofficially and quietly then as they evolve the arrival of a commercial magazine is both a blessing and a curse;

 

It’s a blessing in that it endorses and focuses a hitherto informal area of enthusiasm and allows widely spread people to indulge their interest.

 

It’s a curse because it changes the dynamics within the scene; no longer do people need to be in an owners’ club to find out about events and news and vehicles for sale.

 

The Land Rover enthusiast scene is an example; it grew out of the plentiful supply of second hand Land Rovers after they’d been in production a decade or so and, based on the machines’ off-road ability tended to involve club events and trials (already popular in car clubs). This scene continually expanded until in the eighties, the first specialist dedicated Land Rover magazine was launched, we’re now in a position where four specialist titles are fighting for sales to enthusiasts, commercial shows have changed the scene at the expense of traditional events and the plentiful, cheap, second-hand Land Rover has vanished. The whole scene is diversifying; the earliest Land Rovers have become cherished classics, the new models from Land Rover don’t engender the same passion so the cohesive core has gone. It is easily possible to be a die-hard Land Rover enthusiast without being in any club at all.

 

The Military Vehicle scene will, I believe, follow the Land Rover scene down the same path. For years it survived with a couple of large owners’ clubs in the UK, namely the Military Vehicle Trust (MVT) and Invicta Military Vehicle Preservation Society (IMPS) and one very specialist magazine, Wheels and Tracks, that closed with the death of its editor. Two less authoritative but more readily available military vehicle titles have replaced it. No longer does an mv owner have to be in the MVT or IMPS and rely on its magazine to find out about shows, events, spares and news. Go into WH Smiths and pick up or put down the hobby at will without any commitment to membership fees or anything beyond the purchase price of the magazine! My prediction is that the MVT will see its membership decline as members increasingly come to rely on the more frequent – generally monthly - commercial magazines.

 

The lesson here has to be that, as a club’s magazine is often a member’s only contact with a national owners’ club, owners’ club magazines have to be truly excellent to give people a reason to remain in that club. Windscreen, the magazine of the MVT, is thick and packed with info but sadly, poorly written in the main, badly spelt and punctuated, pitifully designed and I doubt it will do the job of retaining members. Very similar things can currently be said about Minor Matters, the magazine of the MMOC.

 

Don’t get me wrong every type of car and bike will always attract a fanatical following; people who want lowlight Minor saloons, A35s, BSA C15s, Hillman Hunters or whatever but it’s likely to be the numbers that slip away meaning that clubs may have to consider their finances as it’s often the numbers that allow clubs to thrive financially.

 

There will be youngsters who get enthusiastic about something their grandparents drove (otherwise there’d be no Austin 7s left!) but they will never appear in the numbers that they once did. This is why the plentiful day to day ‘classics’ of today may see a fall in demand and corresponding fall in prices.

 

One club that I think is forward looking is the Land Rover Series I Club, it has a worldwide membership, is the world’s largest Land Rover club and welcomes all comers to its door whether they drive cherished classics, beaten to death farm workhorses or massively modified off-roaders. The club is one where the only contact with its membership is through its magazine, Legend and its committee know this. Legend is excellent and entertains and informs its readers admirably.

 

Maybe clubs need to put on joint events – ask yourselves why is Goodwood great? Why do people flock to the NEC Classic Car Show (they are not all club members)?

 

6. Aspirations

 

Some cars attract a lifestyle scene around them including VWs, hot rods, military vehicles, 50s and 60s American cars etc which may have something to do with the influx of youngsters. The dressing-up in clothes of the right era is popular with the cars I’ve just mentioned and, like it or loathe it, adds something to shows and rallies. 50s and 60s America is generally seen as cool, austere 50s Britain less so but it’s something for car clubs to consider… Clubs can’t be staid and stuffy if they are to have a future; the man who wrote to a magazine complaining about the ‘senseless’ destruction of a Hindustan Ambassador in a Peugeot TV advert isn’t going to be the sort of guy anyone wants to go to the pub with…

 

7. Conclusion

 

I believe that to survive clubs must

A; be aware the world’s changing and at least get a website,

B; accept the need to improve their magazines

C; support organisations such as the FBHVC

D; start thinking about a new approach to events

E; plan for a contracting membership

 

[Great War truck]

John

 

Very nicely written. I agree with most of that. I must say though that i diasagree with the whole bad spelling issue. I am rather embarassed to say that i have never noticed a spelling mistake in Windscreen. Now this might be something to do with my generation, where our schools encouraged us to write as much as we could and not worry about the spelling. Sadly that practice was not followed in my second school where i was always in trouble for my spelling, but by that time i think the damage had been done and old spelling habits were hard to kick.

 

I understand that membership of Triumph and MG clubs is in decline, but at last years AGM the MVT membership secretary announced a healthy increase in members. I will be interested to hear next Month how we have done, but i suspect another increase. I will let you know.

 

Military vehicles of one sort or another will always be around, so if people are mostly interested in the vehicles that they remember as a child, i dont give much hope for MG, Triumph and now Rover ownership clubs. Military vehicles will always have a following only the age of the vehicle will change.

But saying that, we collect WW1 trucks and the last person that i remember seeing those as a child died a while back. So perhaps the 10 year thing does not encompass everyone (please, nobody profile me).

 

Quite right about the website thing. "Change or die" is the rule here. Without one a club is doomed. A pity the MVT missed the opportunity to steal a march with a forum. The HMVF forum is so well established now that it would be impossible to better it. However there is always room for more. The first forum that i remember using was the "G" and now i look at half a dozen regularly. I think that the forum format is the future.

 

What does that leave the MVT? Well i think that Windscreen is a superb magazine bringing together all kinds of people. The commercial ones are excellent but Windscreen has a greater diversity with people bringing their personal accounts and storys which the commercial ones miss out on. I also like the social aspect. Once a Month i meet up with 30 like minded people in a brewery. Life is good. Love HMVF to bits, but no one has bought me a pint yet (Jack!). The honest truth is that i just cant get enough green machines. I subscribe to four military vehicle magazines and read others occasionally as well. No matter what i would still be an MVT member, read my Windscreen (despite the spelling) and anything else that i can find that has an MV on the cover.

 

Finally (and desperately not wanting to upset anyone or cause any further continuity to a topic that has been done to death), if someone in a club proposes a motion that i disagree with, then i shall go to that meeting and vote against it. If enough people also disagree then they will also go to that meeting and also vote against it and the motion will not be passed. If people really are not interested then that motion might be passed and we will all have to live with planting more trees, being profiled and hanging canvas buckets from our rear tow hook.

 

It's a hobby. I do it for fun. The politics kills it dead for me.

 

Tim (too)

 

[Jolly Jeeper]

Thanks for a patient and thought out response Tim. In many ways I'm like you - can't get enough machines, in my case Jeeps, Land Rovers and Harleys, these things really do make my world go around... I work odd hours, away from home a lot and work at weekends a lot so often I can't get to MV events. As a result driving my Hotchkiss out onto the moors with the roof off on a sunny day to a country pub for lunch with my girlfriend is one of life's pleasures.

 

I do it for fun too and that's why I posted my first post; it's a hobby for me and the overbearing nature of these recent developments at the MVT threaten to kill it for me when generally I am just happy to receive the club magazine whether it's Windscreen, Legend, Minor Matters, HOG Tales and other things that land on the mat. I send in odd things by way of supporting the clubs I'm a member of. For example, for Windscreen I wrote about my trip with friends to Normandy in 2004 in two of my licence-built flatfender Jeeps, the Hotchkiss and a Mahindra.

 

On a slightly off topic note; one of my favourite bits of Windscreen is the photos of WWI that you submit. I have a small, and slowly growing, collection of similar images that I buy at postcard fairs.

 

Cheers,

JC

[Snapper]

On the spelling and grammar thing my main point is to separate the front end of this site from the forum. The home pages need to be uniform in presentation to develop a style the reader becomes comfortable with and wants to use. To my mind this shows that commitment to it is high if these standards are adhered to and will gain it respect. By implication I appear to be criticising Windscreen. Not so. Editorial deadlines and the sheer workload involved are immense. I am sure this is not underestimated. I am guessing that as with many club magazines that the editors do not overtly edit the text provided by contributors for a range of reasons tied with good old fashioned British reserve, the voluntary nature of it and an attempt to retain individual character. I edited a motor club magazine many years ago and it was great fun, but the club chairman made it abundently clear that spellings and some appalling grammar were to remain intact in all the features so as not to offend the contributors. It was embarassing. I've only got two 'O' Levels, not unlike Rodney Trotter, but I have been fortunate to have made good use of what I have learned since I left school in 1975 including some of the great practical journalism courses run under the auspices of....Farmer's Weekly at IPC. I just like consistency and have ambitions to see this site grow into something very special. At the end of the day the content comes from everyone who signs up. The floor is open.

No spellcheck systems were harmed during the writing of this post. Yeah, right!

[Gerry Khann]

Okay John, yesterday you were all revved up by the proposed motions - some strange , some silly and one or two which might have some basis for discussion.....but none of which have yet been adopted because the AGM hasn't taken place yet (I've checked)!

 

Tonight you seem more bothered by the magazine ( the main reason I joined the MVT). You have a point that any magazine that costs people money should have right spelling and grammer, but your other points are subjective - and I like the general style.

 

The long list of reasons why you say the whole car club thing is coming to an end seems to me all the more reason why enthusiasts should stick together, rather than the "I won't be renewing my memebrship" route. Maybe the different military vehicle clubs should even join forces and ammalgamate. The other car club I belong to is a member of the FBHVC. Maybe the military vehicle clubs are too?

 

So back to my point John, are you going to the AGM to offer your expertise and wide vehicle knowledge? Can we expect to read an article from you in Windscreen? Will you be sending in your first world war postcards like Great War Truck has done? I really hope so as it looks like you could make a useful difference.

 

Gerry

 

 

 

[Snapper]

Interesting points. This is a good debate.

[Jolly Jeeper]

Gerald,

 

Thanks for reading my (long) post. Here's my thoughts in response to yours;

 

Para 1 & 2

 

The proposals for the AGM remain my primary concern. The points about Windscreen have come to the fore in answers to other posts here and I agree that some of my points are subjective.

 

Para 3

 

Fair point and I've put my cheque and renewal form in the mail today. The MV clubs are members of the FBHVC I believe.

 

Para 4

 

Lots of questions here so answers follow in the order that you asked;

AGM? No.

Windscreen? That will be up to the editor of that magazine (but I'm not sure he'll want my contributions following this thread), I'm happy to submit stuff.

Postcards? If anyone wants to see them, I'll scan them. I have actually sent more stuff than you perhaps realise that has appeared in Windscreen. Apart from the two page Normandy story mentioned above, an issue or two back there was a picture postcard from 1938/39 of a Cheshire regiment Bren Carrier and before that was something about abandoned trucks on a military training ground for example. A picture of a lady in a forties corset and stockings in a Willys Jeep wasn't used!

 

JC

[Guest JeepJockey]

 

1001, 1002, 1003, 1004, 1005........YAWN. This thread beats counting sheep.

 

Don't know about rest of the grass roots out there but I need pictures to stimulate my vital organ. I had losted the plot after the second paragraph.

 

What ever next, prehaps a Times style crossword on page 3 of Windscreen to be read while having cucumber sandwiches on doilys with afternooooon tea?

 

For heavens sake guys LIGHTEN UP!

 

I hope I am the first of many to post my whole hearted support and thanks to the editorial team and the MVT Council of Management (should they read this forum) for putting together a cracking little publication and for the often thankless task of running the MVT.

 

The real test of strength is the membership which continues to grow year on year, not the couch crictics tapping away at home on their keyboards.

 

WELL DONE GUYS.

 

Sincere regards to all.

 

Paul

 

 

[M5Clive]

Does anyone know the story of Gerald Wiley ?

 

Well for those who just might be interested, Gerald Wiley was the psuodynom of Ronnie Barker.

 

Ronnie was concerned that if the production team who put 'The Two Ronnies' together thought that it was Ronnie himself who was writing the scripts, they would all-too willingly say how good the sketches were just in an effort to please him.

 

Therefore he created the name Gerald Wiley with which to credit his work. That way, if the material wasn't up to scratch, no would on the production team would be afraid to say so.

 

And of course who would ever think to question this everyday name as a psuodynom for anyone more prominent?? ;-)??

 

Cds

[FV601 (R.I.P.)]

Does anyone know the story of Gerald Wiley ?

 

Well for those who just might be interested, Gerald Wiley was the psuodynom of Ronnie Barker.

 

Ronnie was concerned that if the production team who put 'The Two Ronnies' together thought that it was Ronnie himself who was writing the scripts, they would all-too willingly say how good the sketches were just in an effort to please him.

 

Therefore he created the name Gerald Wiley with which to credit his work. That way, if the material wasn't up to scratch, no would on the production team would be afraid to say so.

 

And of course who would ever think to question this everyday name as a psuodynom for anyone more prominent?? ;-)??

 

Cds

 

 

What are you saying then Clive???

 

Is this Gerald Leggit really Preston using his nom de plume??? :whistle:

[LeeEnfield]

Interesting points. This is a good debate.

 

 

 

 

Agreed, there, Snapper.

 

As an MVT member, and ex IMPS, I too offer nothing but praise, for a job well done, re the magazines produced,...in my 'umble opinion, Windscreen is better than Imprint, (yes, I know thats had a 'make over', - but having been sent first copy, still rate windscreen better).

Each magazine is only as good as the articles sent in by members/unearthed by editors, etc

Ok so there are spelling issues,...............but that also goes for some newspapers, magazines on general sale, etc; While it doesn't make it 'right', certainly, for me it doesn't take my interest in reading said publications.

 

I too, raised my eyebrows when reading AGM proposals,........but thats all they are, PROPOSALS..................which are meant to get people debating them, ..........something, in this case has surely worked........... :whistle:

 

As other posters have already stated, the true strength of any membership organisation, is to maintain and strengthen its numbers, which, it seems, the one in question, namely the MVT, is doing nicely, thank you.

 

JC has raised some interesting points; certainly, from the various magazines he's been involved with, and experience gained from them, it could well be benificial to invite him to impart some of the said experience.

 

 

Andy

[M5Clive]

For someone who has just jointed the MVT, Mr Leggitt seems remarkably up to speed on current events within the MV World, so much so, that he knew John Carroll was the editor of a prominent MV publication! I have been in this hobby since 1989 and like to think that I keep my finger on the pulse and I didn't have a clue that John Carroll had anything to do with MV magazines.

 

Who the hell would give themselves a psuodynom of Gerald Leggitt ??? Yes I can under stand Dukw Captain or Great War Truck or Snapper or someones real name like Clive D Stevens or John Pearson but Gerald Leggitt when its not your real name???

 

And if it is his real name then I'm not aware that he is a member of the MVT (which he claims at least twice on this thread alone) and has not joined in recent weeks as his claim states.

 

So that leaves us with one question to answer? Who the hell is Gerald Leggitt ? - I have my suspicions as to who this very informed and eager to engage in political discussions may be.

 

Yes everyone is entitled to their own opinion on here, whatever that opinion may be, but I do object to political discussions and hiding behind others names, when individuals do not have gumption to come-out and put there name at the bottom of their statements. Incidentally, I do agree with much of what this person has written on here, but object to it under a false name.

 

Pity really - Because I think everyone (including myself) would be quite enlightened to learn who it really is hiding behind Mr. Gerald Leggitt, just like Ronnie Barker hid behind Gerald Wiley for many years.

 

Ok, so I am getting quite excited about this issue, but just take a read back through some of Gerald's comments and ask yourself - Is this the average comments of someone so new to the MV world ?

 

Were you this out-spoken within a month of your membership card arriving?

 

And before you all ask, no I won't be drawn as to who I think it is, because i'm not 100% sure. That is up to individuals to draw there own conclusions, if indeed they either no or care! Just study the comments and ask yourself who would be particularly concerned about the issues they discuss?

 

Going back to ealier discussions of yesteryear, I do feel it is a great shame that at least one person from the higher echelons of the MVT (or Imps for that matter) cannot act as some form of liason officer with this forum - particularly as we are well aware that several of them view it on a regular basis.

 

HMVF is nothing that any club should feel threatened by. It does not take the place of any MV club or any publication like Windscreen or Imprint. If recent new members figures are anything to go by, this forum is going from strength to strength and some of the brilliant photographs that are being submitted to accompany threads only substantiat these facts. Just take a look at 'An Excellent Pre D-Day photograph under the Operation Bolero section' as an example.

 

One thing is for sure, HMVF is here to stay and whilst's I'm not excited by ever comment and every thread on here, I am equally not excited by every article or every picture in the Windscreen magazine. I do however think the Windscreen magazine is a publication to be proud of, if like myself, you are a MVT member of several years standing and have seen the progress of the magazine move forward over the years.

 

I do feel as an active member of both MVT and HMVF I wish both clubs could interact better with each other, as I think that both parties (and all members) would ultimately benefit.

 

Rant Over ;-)

 

Cds

 

Sorry for any typo's!!

 

 

 

[Snapper]

I, for one, haven't got a clue who it is. I would ask that if this is a long standing or "senior" member of the MVT; they use the forum for the best reason and stand their ground using their own name. At the end of the day they do not have to answer to anyone but the MVT membership which happens to include a large slice of HMVF members, too. The MVT has done some fantastic things and commitment to the MV world remains paramount. I think any committee role in a club is a poison chalice regardless of what the hobby is. There will always be a number of people who are unhappy with progression in a given direction or with modernisation from all perspectives of what that means - for or against. Politics is a fact of life and I am sure none of us is starry eyed enough not to believe that politics will not effect the management of HMVF at some point. It always happens.

 

I've never contributed anything to Windscreen. All I do is read it from cover to cover, warts and all. No publication is perfect. There is always room for improvement.

 

Maybe I am being naive. But I cannot see why the major clubs cannot use HMVF as a way of gauging the MV world at large and reaching their own memberships, in addition to using their own machinery; to get the widest response to questions of how the hobby might progress and what we all need to do to keep things on an even keel and keep the wolves at bay.

 

Honest debate should be encouraged and not seen as a threat to any organisation. I just hope that everyone sees this forum in the correct light.

 

 

 

[Marmite!!]

Maybe I am being naive. But I cannot see why the major clubs cannot use HMVF as a way of gauging the MV world at large and reaching their own memberships,

 

 

 

I think the answer to that one is simple, they are not interested in hearing what the membership has to say, if they were they would have no problem in having a forum of their own or come on here & answer club members concerns. I wonder how many letters & emails go unanswered??

[M5Clive]

If letters and E-mails are addressed to the General Secretary, then they simply do not go unanswered.

 

The Gen Sec has held that unenviable voluntary position for many years and carries out a first-rate job - I have seen the man at work at many CofM meetings and have received numerous corresspondences from him over the years. When I requested assistance with my lottery application for Suffolk MVT the Gen Sec could not have been more helpful. (Only speaking as I find)

 

I also recall that one of the Essex and Softskins boys (sorry cannot remember the name) requested some form of letter/document from the Gen Sec within the last 6 months, which I know was posted out to them by return, so I don't think much inefficiency lies at this persons doormat!

 

Lets not forget that this person also holds down a full-time job as well as documenting all minutes of CofM meetings and nearly all MVT official corresspondence.

 

I wouldn't want his unpaid position within the Trust for all the tea in China :-o

 

Cds