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Well didn't know this "The gun is called a Sturmgewehr 44, literally meaning "storm rifle," and is the first "modern assault rifle ever made, eventually replaced by the AK 47 in 1947 by Russia, who copied the German design of the Sturmgewehr 44," I always thought the AK47 was an original design but seems it wasn't.

 

http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/valuable-wwii-gun-police-buy-back-022155231--abc-news-topstories.html

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I wouldn't say that article was based on too much facts.

 

yes the StG44 was the first modern assault rifle

Yes the AK47 was an assault rifle in the same mould, short calibre round and high cap magazine

but it isn't a technical copy

 

check the first paragraph in the section entitled Post 1945

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StG_44

 

You could of course be writing this sarcastically ;)

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You could of course be writing this sarcastically ;)

 

no, it just piked my interest as always thought the ak47 was a stand alone concept.

 

Interesting comment at the end of that wiki article "On 11 August 2012, it was reported that the Free Syrian Army had captured or found up to 5,000 MP44s, all in apparently good condition. The origin of these weapons is unknown"

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Interesting comment at the end of that wiki article "On 11 August 2012, it was reported that the Free Syrian Army had captured or found up to 5,000 MP44s, all in apparently good condition. The origin of these weapons is unknown"

 

Probably from crates dug up in Birmingham, Neasden or Burma ... :-)

 

Andy

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When I did a little research into the StG44 about 5 years ago, the Lebanese Army webpage (!) listed the weapon as part of its current arsenal. I'm guessing, but I'd imagine that some stockpiles were picked up by people like the Czechs at the end of WW2, which were then supplied to ME countries from 1948 on.

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I once owned an MP44 (Early name for the Stg44), it was imported from Egypt when they cleared them from there arsenal, when I cleaned out the grease there was sand in there, which helped to confirm the Egyption history. There were a lot of deact Stg44s around in the early 1990s, I was told most were from Egyptian stock. I would imagine Syria purchased from the same source that Egypt used, I presume in the 1950s. Remember that Syria purchased a good number of Panzer IVs in the 1950s from Europe.

 

Here is the Video of what the FSA found!

Something went wrong...

 

If these stocks are still around in 2012 I wonder if there are stocks of PzIV spares floating around in the country too?

Edited by ajmac
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crikey :) does make you ponder just how much WW2 era kit of all sorts is still out there languishing in various government stores across the world?? ....also makes you wonder....'who' actually sold the Egyptians and the Jordanians etc etc all that kit ??? Yes we know it originated in Germany but....was Germany still under the Allies jurisdiction at the time of the sales so did we oversee and broker the deals?...... or.... did the fledgling German government sell it as soon as they had regained sort of 'control' over their country?... ....I only ask because...if it was sold by the Germans after the Allies had 'left them to it'.... how come the kit was still lying about somewhere for them to sell?......obviously this was 'new unused stock' of the former German Armed Service.... and as such , how come it wasn't either destroyed by the Allies during their 'reign' or confiscated & brought to the UK or taken to the US or France or the Soviet Union?? Brings to mind the question ....did we even know about it or it's whereabouts ?????....intriguing .... :/

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I don't think there were any hidden weapons stocks that went up for sale rather that the former occupied countries re-armed post war with what the Germans had left behind, in some cases the national arms factories continued manufacturing German wartime weapons after the war had ended. Czechoslovakia made MG34s well into the late 40s and went on to sell them to Israel. When everyone had time to asses there needs and standardise on the 7.62mm round the German equipment was replaced with US gear or more modern alternatives. IIRC the French also supplied arms to Israel over the following 30 years much of which was ex-German stock. A number of African countries aquired German weapons as did Vietnam.

Edited by ajmac
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so were they Czech or DDR or Yugoslav manufactured post WW2? or......old 'Nazi Germany' stock?

 

from what I was reading a lot of ex-army stock. They went through upgrades and then disposed of to 'friendly' countries. Some units in Europe used them until the early 80's.

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  • 2 months later...

They are all in a shipping container. So one assumes they have been 'Intercepted' by Official Sources?

 

It would be nice if these made thier way onto the Civillian Market here. To end up as Deactivated Collectors Items!

As the Country it is apparantly in now, is one from an area of 'Financialy Challenged' member states.

 

It WOULD make sound finacial sense, to legally dispose of them to a Bussinessman with the apporopriate Licencing & Paperwork for importation to the UK?

 

The POSSIBLE realistic outcome is, they will end up being destroyed. The 7.92mm Kurtz Cartridge which they use. Is LONG out of mainstream production, in the quantities required for Military usage these days!.......:(

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It would seem pointless to supply assault weapons without ammunition.... One would expect he deal with Croatia involved, 44s, magazines and a good supply of Kurtz rounds, it would not be surprising if Kurtz were in post war production in Yugoslavia....after all they did use 44s until the country collapsed....50 years after German wartime production would have stopped.

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It WOULD make sound finacial sense, to legally dispose of them to a Bussinessman with the apporopriate Licencing & Paperwork for importation to the UK?

 

 

My guess is it was all not really legit from the start, so if they have been intercepted by the current regime, which is most likely not going to be the regime much longer, followed by anarchy, followed by a new regime they could end up anywhere.

 

I does make me think that with all these regime changes has much actually come out onto the market? Several trophies have come out of Iraq and Afghanistan, has there been any actual acquisitions? I saw a lot of stuff destroyed of historical value in Iraq pictures, is this the case the norm?

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It would seem pointless to supply assault weapons without ammunition.... One would expect he deal with Croatia involved, 44s, magazines and a good supply of Kurtz rounds, it would not be surprising if Kurtz were in post war production in Yugoslavia....after all they did use 44s until the country collapsed....50 years after German wartime production would have stopped.

 

Almost ALL of the large quantities I have examined over the years of surplus 7.92mm Kurz Ammo. Has been Postwar DDR Produced steel cased variants. Yes a lot exists, but I dont THINK it is being produced in the SIZABLE quantities required by Military Formations these days?

 

Or does anybody have evidence to the contrary?.....

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The Syrian PzIV, were ex-Czech army.

Yes but they were still WW2 german vintage weren't they? I believe they still rest on the Golan Heights where they were taken out by the Israelis in the '60's? Fairly complete as well.....Hmmmmm...

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Almost ALL of the large quantities I have examined over the years of surplus 7.92mm Kurz Ammo. Has been Postwar DDR Produced steel cased variants. Yes a lot exists, but I dont THINK it is being produced in the SIZABLE quantities required by Military Formations these days?

 

Or does anybody have evidence to the contrary?.....

I don't think the rebels in Syria will care about the medium term viability of there weapons ;)

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I don't think the rebels in Syria will care about the medium term viability of there weapons ;)

 

Yeah, Thier 'Varied' regimes are very 'Pick & Mix', arent they?...LOL!

 

If they get out of thier prams too much, the Western World's 'Policing Force's' will be sent into yet another Campaign.

to eradicate them there Nasty types, from esatblishing a serious threat to the Freedom of the west!.........

(Or would that be, there is something of great National Interest to the Western World's Financial Coffers!........) ;)

 

Gold? Oil? Diamond's, Steel? Etc......The usual REAL reason's for going in?........No, No, NO! IT's not like that!! Honest!.........Yeah! Of COURSE it isnt!... ;)

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Yes but they were still WW2 german vintage weren't they? I believe they still rest on the Golan Heights where they were taken out by the Israelis in the '60's? Fairly complete as well.....Hmmmmm...

 

I (used to, probably still do - I know where it will be if I do) have a book on PzKpfw 4 in Action from the 1970s. I am fairly sure that the last recorded action by Mark 4s was indeed on the Golan Heights either in the 67 or the 73 war, where the Israelis had used the turrets to make anti-tank bunkers. But I haven't seen the book in at least 25 years so I could well be wrong.

 

I also seem to recall (from the companion volume Panther in Action) that the last recorded action involving Panthers was in the same war, firing across the Sea of Galilee.

Edited by AlienFTM
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