question Any last minute buying tips? Bedford MJr.

[Savarus]

Hi all!

 

You'll have to forgive me; this is my first real post to the forum after introductions so still not sure where all the topics go yet. Hopefully I'm not mucking up anyone's nice neat filing structure or rehashing something I shouldn't be!

 

Anyway, I know the MJ camper conversion topic has been covered plenty and I assure you I'm working hard to digest all the great feedback on it in the various forums but I was hoping for some first thoughts on a specific line of vehicles before I view them tomorrow & potentially spend more than I should be.

 

The vehicles I'll be looking at are from Withams. Here are the links to their respective pages.

http://www.mod-sales.com/vehicle/search/14691/Bedford_AWD_4_Ton.htm

 

http://www.mod-sales.com/direct/vehicle/,26,52,/16929/BEDFORD.htm

 

My first concern is price. I'm having trouble finding any kind of price-guide for the MJ and have to admit I'm walking in a bit blind. I've seen fully converted campers going for £5,000 and rusted old heaps with crane bodies going for nearly £9,000. Either no-one really knows how much to ask for their truck or a benchmark price is a hard thing to find!

I realise price depends on a lot of factors but would really appreciate some heads-up before I take the plunge. £5,600 and £8100 (inc VAT) are big numbers to me & I'd like to know I won't be making a huge mistake.

 

Now I've never traded with Withams before but from what I gather they're THE people to go to. I feel like I can trust their prices & that I'll be getting an excellent truck for my money from them. What I'd really like to know is am I being naive?

 

Does anyone have any first thoughts on the condition of the vehicles in the links & their respective prices? Will it really be a case of getting what I pay for here?

 

Many thanks.

Stu.

[robin craig]

From what I have seen over the years you might be better of going to see Crouch for a vehicle, they will go over them for you with a degree of responsibilty.

 

Withams are just sellers and wholesalers of the vehicles.

 

That is what I see from this distance.

 

R

[Savarus]

Thanks Robin! I'm not familiar with Crouch. Do you have a web address / link / contact details by any chance?

 

<<EDIT>>

Sorry, that really WAS a stupid question! They came up top of the search list! Not sure why I've not come across them in my digging. Get the impression I might be letting myself in for too much work looking at some of their sales items. In terms of mechanical reliability they seem as much an unknown quantity as Withams at this point, except minus the extensive reconditioning.

Can I ask why you suggest Crouch? Have you bought from them yourself?

<<END EDIT>>

 

I know Withams offer no warranty on their stock, though the ABRO refurbishment thing seems to offset that to some degree (with their current flatbeds at least).

Edited September 6, 2012 by Savarus

[David Ives]

just rember withams will add vat on top of that price so add about a extra grand for vat plus you will need to mot them before registering them for a civi number plate

crouch will have them ready to drive away

[retriever]

David Crouch is a very nice bloke to deal with, Ive never felt he has given me anything but a great deal, Withams on the other hand !!!! If I cannot say anything good then I will not say anything.

[Savarus]

Cheers David.

 

Yeah, I'm still reading through tons of articles about testing, registration & plating. There's certainly a minefield of paperwork & red tape to wade through!

I expect it'll be a year or more before the truck's liveable as a camper though, so I'll be in no great hurry to drive it on the road. I know an ex REME guy who I think's still in class 1 testing so hopefully that's that covered.

 

Withams reckon they can deliver to me for around £450, which I thought was pretty cheap considering the distance (It'd probably cost me at least half that in fuel alone to drive one home from Crouch's, then there'd be temporary insurance to boot.)

 

I've already factored in the VAT on £4,500 & £6,750 as marked up on Withams website. The dearer flatbed (£8,100 inc VAT) IS within my budget; my main concern at this point though is whether that's a reasonable figure for an MJ in this condition (and just how mechanically in-depth these refurbishments go.)

From what I can see on Crouch's site, their trucks are pricier and not nearly as tidy, regardless of how intimately they know them mechanically; leading me to think that Withams may still be the way to go.

 

IS 8 grand about right do we thinK?

 

Hi Retriever! Thanks for that startling input. Not sure if I need to run & hide or not now! Haha!

If I cannot say anything good then I will not say anything.

Can I ask what went wong for you?

 

Edited September 6, 2012 by Savarus

[m109a3uk]

This is the second truck I have bought of David and would recommed him to anyone! He is a great guy to deal with the price is what he say it is. he will give the truck a check over or do any work you want done.

http://www.crouchmilitarysales.co.uk/ He has lots of Dafs and MJ's you can wander and find the truck you like he will tell you price he can even test and register it for you.

I would buy again from him anytime.

[antar]

I too have had many dealings with David Crouch over the last 20 years, David is the straightest dealer you will come across, my recomendation goes there, Withams are wholesalers on behalf of the MOD, they need to move plenty of metal so dont always have the time to go through things.

[robin craig]

Just a quick note, if you get a chance to buy one of the two crane variants, cheaper than a flatbed, which is unlikely, you should know that the deck lengths are not the same! I know our CALM is shorter by 2 feet than a cargo.

 

R

[Markheliops]

Hi Stu -

 

IN regards to your question -

 

David Crouch is as straight as they come. A very decent bloke and if a vehicle is a shed - he'll tell you it's a shed before you buy it - then it's up to you. He also knows the value of a pound note so he knows what a decent truck is worth. That's not a bad thing but he is a business man.

 

Withams - Any truck that has been through the overhaul program will be pretty straight - but they do command hefty prices.

 

As a matter of interest - I may well be selling a Bedford flatbed soon - purchased by my boss and never road registered. No where near the price of the ones you'll be looking at.

 

Markheliops

[eddy8men]

look on milweb or the classifieds of classic military vehicle mag, i'm sure i've seen mj's for the £3-4k region. like you i was looking for an mj last year but decided to opt for the daf instead, it's not as simple or bomb proof but it is much nicer to drive over any kind of distance. trust me when you hit 50 in a bedford the steering wheel will shake violently which can be quite exciting down hill with a trailer.

i bought 2 daf's for £1850 each from withams tender and both were in good shape.

if you want bomb proof go bedford if it's driveability go daf.

 

good luck with the search i'm sure you'll be happy either way as both trucks are good it's only a matter of how much money you part with.

 

rick

[Savarus]

Thanks everyone for some really great input. Sorry for not responding to individual comments; I've only just got back from Peterborough. Ended up stopping the night in Guildford with the old man, who went with me to Withams. As a previous MJ owner-driver he proved really useful to have along.

 

Sadly all the refurbished models had already gone but that stopped being an issue when I looked at some of the Leyland DAFS & realised just how much more truck I'd be getting for my money.

After all my research on the MJs, the whole plan changed almost instantly & I ended up buying a DAF!

 

Real nice tidy truck too. A grand more than I'd originally planned to spend but all things considered I'm convinced I've got a superior vehicle for it. The one I picked is a cargo rig with a 1ton tail lift, sleeper cab & diff lock. Got a full fresh (90%) set of tyres thrown in for nowt and delivery for half of what I'd been told to expect.

 

The grand scheme has also changed a bit. I've decided to get the thing on the road sooner rather than later & to put it to work while I'm building the expedition body. No static money that way... and a bigger budget for the conversion too! Plus It'll give me chance to kill some miles and get a feel for how she drives & what goes wrong.

 

Lots to think about at the moment... Leyland maintenance courses, testing & plating... driver licencing! (Yes, I'm not even HGV licensed yet! Years of driving them but never on the road!

 

So the project is off the ground! Photos & more to follow.

Thanks again to all who've had something to say. It really was all taken on board, honest!

[Tony B]

If its going to be a camper wagon, may be worth checking the rules. Campers have some exemptions. The tail lift is a useful touch, and if sold on could well end up nearly paying for the rest of the truck.

[Savarus]

Hi Tony! That's interesting what you said about the tail lift. It was a bit of a last minute bonus really, as there was no difference price-wise between having the tail lift & not. As it turned out the best truck they had just happened to have one fitted.

 

I was thinking along the lines of motorbike stowage. Build a folding box above the lift & it's a ready made garage! I'll be wanting to take a bike anyway to get around the parking-in-towns issue, so a contraption like that would save half a trailer, giving me back my mobile workshop option while still keeping the bike nice & secure.

 

Still, I'd be curious to know how much you're talking about when you say it could nearly pay for the truck if sold. Am I to take it these lifts are quite highly sought after then?

 

Thanks for the tip on licensing too. I'm aware it's possible to down-plate some trucks of this size as motor caravans & I've heard of people driving them on car licenses, so will definitely be looking into that.

[Tony B]

Depending on condition, used tail lifts can make a good price. Friends bought a MJ truck for £1500 with a lift and were offred £900 just for the lift. They didn't sell as the lift was part of the reason to buy it. That was a few years back now.

[Savarus]

Encouraging to know; and always a good thing to have options. Thanks for that Tony!

[LarryH57]

Just a quick point from a mate of mine - who works for the MOD as a mechanic.

 

While walking round Beltring in the last two years he has noticed a few Bedfords & AWD types where the box body that the owner is carrying has not been properly secured on the back with J brackets along the sides - unless of course the owner had some miracle way of doing this which wasn't the standard way!

 

So do check this out!

[Savarus]

Cheers Larry!

The truck I ended up with is your basic GS drop-sider with canvas, so thankfully proper box-body fixings weren't an issue when buying.

I'll be certain to keep it in mind for the conversion though, if I decide to fix something to the existing demountable.

 

I'm guessing a lot of people simply drop the box onto the flat-bed & assume it'll stay put of its own accord. I've seen that done a lot on ex-military trucks & trailers that were converted for agricultural use. Very dodgy! I can't imagine how much use people honestly believe the odd ratchet strap or 2 inches of weld will be against umpteen tons of wayward steel... but then if everyone knew what they were doing there'd be no experts to advise them against doing it!

 

Very useful pointer. Thanks!

[m109a3uk]

Even the military dont bolt them on !!! You can see the marks from where the ratchet straps were on my body.

I have managed to get hold of 4 of the clamps for the body but could do with another 6 if anyone has any they want to sell on.

Cheers Larry!

The truck I ended up with is your basic GS drop-sider with canvas, so thankfully proper box-body fixings weren't an issue when buying.

I'll be certain to keep it in mind for the conversion though, if I decide to fix something to the existing demountable.

 

I'm guessing a lot of people simply drop the box onto the flat-bed & assume it'll stay put of its own accord. I've seen that done a lot on ex-military trucks & trailers that were converted for agricultural use. Very dodgy! I can't imagine how much use people honestly believe the odd ratchet strap or 2 inches of weld will be against umpteen tons of wayward steel... but then if everyone knew what they were doing there'd be no experts to advise them against doing it!

 

Very useful pointer. Thanks!

[Savarus]

So you can! I stand duly disillusioned... either about the diligence of the military or the true necessity for proper fixings; I'm not quite sure which!

 

What kind of body IS that you have? I've not seen a military one quite like it & it looks a bit too rugged for a civi retrofit. Clearly it's been lashed to that truck a good while for the straps to mark it so heavily.

It's a nice outfit though. What are your plans for it?

[m109a3uk]

Its a drone repair body. They are made out of an alloy and insulation sandwich. Withams had a few in the last tender(i hot mine alot cheaper than those)I think it had a total of 8 ratchet straps holding it on then it was given a good dollop of light stone on top. They are the later type fitted to the LD 4 tonners. I have the same plans for it as you have a military camper. It will make the shows more comfortable.

[Savarus]

Drone repair? As in bomb disposal robots & unmanned aircraft, that kind of thing? Cool beans! Should make a really practical conversion with the insulation & all those lockers. Nice uncomplicated shape too. I'd love to see some photos when it's finished! Will you keep it mostly military spec & show it or will it look more motorhome-y? Mine will have to look obviously civilian where I'll be taking it, else I might find myself getting shot at! 'Course I might get shot at anyway, just for being there! Wise to shoot back do we suppose?! Another topic maybe! Hehe!

[LarryH57]

In the Army, there are three ways of doing things; as per the manufacturers recommendation / manual, as per the MOD mechanics way of interpreting the rules using a bit of common sense to keep the vehicles going and then there are the 'Squaddy mods' some of which beggers belief!!!!!!!

[m109a3uk]

I would have thought that a load of ratchet straps would hold on the body quite securly(would still like the proper clamps though)

I may even look into fitting twist locks into the bed of the truck just to make sure!

It was for repairing drones out in the sunny areas of the world.

[Savarus]

That 3-way methodology proliferates much further than the army, Larry; but yes, some people's idea of engineering is quite scary! What's even scarier is that sometimes it holds together!

 

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with ratchet straps. They're not ideal but they'll do the job fine in most cases, as long as nothing dreadful happens to the vehicle. In emergency or accident conditions though, that nice secure 2ton load can effectively quadruple in weight & tear through a strap like it wasn't there. Hopefully no-one here will need to find out the hard way but better safe than sorry, eh?!

[m109a3uk]

Agreed most things are only as strong as the weakesy point!

I could still with some of the clamps if anyone has them.

 

That 3-way methodology proliferates much further than the army, Larry; but yes, some people's idea of engineering is quite scary! What's even scarier is that sometimes it holds together!

 

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with ratchet straps. They're not ideal but they'll do the job fine in most cases, as long as nothing dreadful happens to the vehicle. In emergency or accident conditions though, that nice secure 2ton load can effectively quadruple in weight & tear through a strap like it wasn't there. Hopefully no-one here will need to find out the hard way but better safe than sorry, eh?!