Gate Guardians

[eddy8men]

great posts fella's

i love looking at these old range wrecks and it's good to get to a handle on what the old sweats have been upto in the past, maybe one or two of us reading this will be inspired to carry on trying to recover and restore these old wrecks to there former glory or at least get them off the ranges

 

eddy

[steveo578]

Adrian Barrell

It does on this one of David Herberts. It is painted on twice,

Hi Adrian

 

thanks for posting that photo the only one I've got currently is this one

 

 

-it is not at all clear- I know it is there but it's not good enough to post for discusion. I really must invest in one of those negative readers for computers -as I've sent out so many hard copies over the years that my catalogue of photos is somewhat depleated- another expense and something computer wise to thwart me.:cool2:

 

I'm sure that there are photos of these tanks before they were sent to various ranges, it has been mentioned to me one of Mr MacGregors people took a snap or two as he preped the tanks, whether true or not I don't know -there was almost a myth industry around Grizzlies back then-everyone had a story-and each one has to be weighed. It's possible that the numbers were sprayed on when under Mr MacGregors control- it's alot easier than having to look for a 20-25mm number stamp.

 

Steve

[John Pearson]

great posts fella's

i love looking at these old range wrecks and it's good to get to a handle on what the old sweats have been upto in the past, maybe one or two of us reading this will be inspired to carry on trying to recover and restore these old wrecks to there former glory or at least get them off the ranges

 

eddy

 

Old sweats??

Cheeky young whippersnapper!!!

Edited September 28, 2010 by John Pearson
spelling!

[John Pearson]

I'm sure that there are photos of these tanks before they were sent to various ranges, it has been mentioned to me one of Mr MacGregors people took a snap or two as he preped the tanks, whether true or not I don't know -there was almost a myth industry around Grizzlies back then-everyone had a story-and each one has to be weighed. It's possible that the numbers were sprayed on when under Mr MacGregors control- it's alot easier than having to look for a 20-25mm number stamp.

 

Steve

While you were posting the picture, I did some checking and it IS a coincidence, or at least it sort of is!

Ian McGregor did indeed number all of the Grizzles and Sextons with spray paint so that there was no confusion about which one was which as they were moved around on the docks being sold and the numbers are clearly shown on newspaper articles of the time (late 1983). The one that went to Sennybridge had 25 on it and it was marked on the range maps as such, in common with the numbers of the other local targets. I guess they could not be bothered to change it as the rest of the local targets were from about 30 upwards so it fitted straight in.

I now realise it was an LVT 3 and thinking about it, I remember the (cadillac?) engines still being in the sidewalls when it was cut up about 1994 which is strange: in 1966 I was on the range as a cadet and remember the engine being a radial at the front, ie it was an LVT4. I had always assumed it was the same vehicle but there must have been two!!

While there in 1966, I fired 25pdr and 5.5 inch (RA soldiers did the loading, we just pulled the trigger/pulled the string) at the Valentines which I later went to collect spares from, 1986 onwards. Luckily, all rounds missed their targets and more than a few were blinds!

[Adrian Barrell]

Old sweats??

Cheeky young whippersnapper!!!

 

I always saw myself as a new boy John, you were definately one of the ''old sweats'', it's quite an honour to be called one myself now!

[Jack]

in 1966 I was on the range as a cadet and remember the engine being a radial at the front, ie it was an LVT4. I had always assumed it was the same vehicle but there must have been two!!

While there in 1966, I fired 25pdr and 5.5 inch (RA soldiers did the loading, we just pulled the trigger/pulled the string) at the Valentines which I later went to collect spares from, 1986 onwards. Luckily, all rounds missed their targets and more than a few were blinds!

 

Wow John that is an incredible twist of fate. Life sure does work in strange ways! Bet you are glad you had missed!

[steveo578]

John Pearson

I guess they could not be bothered to change it as the rest of the local targets were from about 30 upwards so it fitted straight in.

Yes it would be less bother to use an existing- fairly clear number than have a reluctant squaddie wandering around with a paintbrush and tin, or it ends up with "Kill Kremlin and up CND" which were markings on Saracens that were on Feldom.

 

Adrian Barrell

I always saw myself as a new boy John, you were definately one of the ''old sweats'', it's quite an honour to be called one myself now!

It's the "old" bit that'll get you down but you've still got awhile to go.

[Stone]

From your description it was Nato Designation ACRV (Armour Command and Reconnaisance Vehicle) M1974 -no doubt there is a proper Soviet/Russian designation- a huge box on the suspension of the 2S1 122mm Howitzer SPG. don't think I've seen one in captivity.

M1974 was the 2S1 designation - the 2S1's command vehicle was an MTLBu.

 

It's a stretched MTLB chassis, the 2S1 was a hybrid with the MTLBu running gear but MTLB-style front (on the driver's side) and a single rear door. There's a nice Iraqi one at Shrivenham, near their (very sad looking) Harrier...

 

Stone

 

Stone

[John Pearson]

Wow John that is an incredible twist of fate. Life sure does work in strange ways! Bet you are glad you had missed!

 

I am glad but I did have in mind the 'blinds'!

To be serious for a minute, sometimes people ask why civilians are not allowed on the ranges under normal circumstances. Well, the last time I was recovering items from the Valentines there, maybe about 2003 (my brain is getting old and sweaty!), one of the team called me over, with a bit of tension in his voice. I went over and he was standing on the tip of a UX PIAT round which had 'popped' up out of the grass and was at 45 degrees. VERY slowly, I got him to raise his foot and it went back into its hole in the turf and we went to get the range officer. He jumped back about 10 feet when he saw it and that was the end of work there for the day. I understand that when the EOD guys disposed of it, the cutting/exploding charge was placed BY it not ON it as it was too unstable to be touched. Afterwards, the guy who had stood on it told me that it intially flipped right up and hit his shin before falling back to 45 degrees, as it was when I saw it. Now PIAT rounds only have a shear wire to arm (broken by recoil forces) and I think a graze fuze but anyway, even if not then the explosive inside had probably been sweating nitroglycerine type compounds for 50+ years. Add that to the current epidemic of H&S worries and you ain't going to get a free entry ticket anymore!

[steveo578]

Stone

the 2S1's command vehicle was an MTLBu.

 

Thanks for clarifying the designation, there seem to be a load of similar looking AFVs with similar reporting designations and different functions.

 

Steve

[steveo578]

steveo578

it's alot easier than having to look for a 20-25mm number stamp.

Couldn't find my photo of Cricklades the Number stamp -so this one was retained by the Portugese army as a gateguard/museum exhibit at Santa Margrida.

 

 

 

Of any of these marking the number 7 is the weakest strike- and the number one tends to be most visible which meant that some people reported Smokin' Joe a Budge Grizzly as number 1 whereas it is 71

 

 

 

Steve

[Stone]

Thanks for clarifying the designation, there seem to be a load of similar looking AFVs with similar reporting designations and different functions.

It's the only armour family I know anything about, mind

 

All Russian stuff tends to look pretty similar - it gets really confusing as they had competing requirements leading to very similar vehicles used by different groups. Compare the BMP-1 with the BMD-1 and PT-76 - they look very similar but one is an IFV, one's a lightweight airborne IFV and the other's a tank! :nut:

[hardtarget]

I always saw myself as a new boy John, you were definately one of the ''old sweats'', it's quite an honour to be called one myself now!

 

New boys were called "Crows" in our outfit, so I agree .."Old Sweat" is much better ! :-)

 

Here is a Chieftain Gate Guard at Catterick FEBA training estate, although I think its more "hands on" than just a guard.! Hopefully someone will rescue and preserve it one day !

[ArtistsRifles]

It's the only armour family I know anything about, mind

 

All Russian stuff tends to look pretty similar - it gets really confusing as they had competing requirements leading to very similar vehicles used by different groups. Compare the BMP-1 with the BMD-1 and PT-76 - they look very similar but one is an IFV, one's a lightweight airborne IFV and the other's a tank! :nut:

 

BMP-1

 

BMD-1

 

PT-76

 

Looking at the above images - the three are fairly distinctive, even the two IFV's. Seen in the flesh, as it were, they are even more so. Somewhat in the front profile and much more so in the side....

 

(All images copyright http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/cv/index.html - Gary's Combat Vehicle Reference Guide)

[steveo578]

ArtistsRifles

Looking at the above images - the three are fairly distinctive, even the two IFV's. Seen in the flesh, as it were, they are even more so. Somewhat in the front profile and much more so in the side....

Yes totally different -The PT76 was developed from wartime experience via the K90 tank -under N. Shashmurim at Kirov plant and was in production in 1951- with a combat team of similar automative AFVs such as the Btr50 and the ASU 85 out of Petrov design bureau.

 

The BMP1 and BDM 1 were much later the BMP was designed first from 1959 and the BMD 1 was particularly a result of the Cold War /post Cuban Missile crisis need to air drop powerful support equipment to paratroops. Apart from the turret there is nothing in common- BMP1 is Chelyabinsk designed whereas the BMD 1 was Volgagad. The BMP1 drives from the front sprocket with a forward mounted motor, BMD1 is a rear sprocketed rear engined AFV-the tracks are very different BMP having a comparatiely advanced track with outer guides single roads wheels. BMD1 has centre guide track of more traditional style, with split wheels. The battle concept is different the BMD is a support vehicle rather like a mini tank it even has a pair of machine guns fixed in the nose -similar in concept to the old M3 Stuart tank.

 

Steve

[Stone]

My point was only that if you see something once and then rush off home to identify it, by the time you're looking on the Wiki you've forgotten which one it was!

 

I found that anyway, it could just be me...:blush:

 

Stone

[steveo578]

Stone

.....I found that anyway, it could just be me...:blush:

 

Certainly others had the same problem -lots of books proove it:nut:.

 

Steve

[dizzy-t]

Hi guys. Have heard that a Diamond T was a gate guardian at Bulford Camp, can anyone confirm this please, & has anyone got a photo for the new "WW 2 Diamond T Registration" which I am starting up, I need all the info anybody can get for me.

Thanks dizzy-t:thanx::thumbsup::coffee:

[eddy8men]

can't remember any diamond t's but it sounds very likely as there was a tank transporter unit stationed there when i was posted there in 92-95

 

eddy

[diamond 981]

"OLD JOE" Diamond T 22 YZ 73 is based at Ward Barracks Bulford.

[afvnut75]

New boys were called "Crows" in our outfit, so I agree .."Old Sweat" is much better ! :-)

 

Here is a Chieftain Gate Guard at Catterick FEBA training estate, although I think its more "hands on" than just a guard.! Hopefully someone will rescue and preserve it one day !

 

Id give it ago if its a potential runner ie nothing drastic to get going properly, and it looks like a late mk chieftain ? i wonder if they will get shot of it :nut: