Rememberance Sunday. My family's contribution

[mark m uk]

We are fast approaching that time of the year when we are asked to pop our hands in our pockets and produce a few pounds for the British legion poppy appeal.

 

11/11, Rememberance day, Poppy day, Armistice day.

 

My family's contribution to the world wars is that of an average British home - there are thousands of similar tales like this. This is just one tale, and an attempt to put some faces to the names carved in the stones.

 

Here is a picture of my Great grandfather and his mates. He was a medic in WW1.

His other role was as a bandsman and as a way of earning a few more pennies he was the company bugler. Thats him in the front row with the bugle.

 

 

Here is the bugle now, a family heirloom I guess. Battered from the battle fields of France. Both my great grandfather and the bugle returned scarred but basicly intact.

 

 

The bugle and he were lucky to survive, 'The war to end wars'. The Bugle came out again in the early 1920's when the village war memorial was completed and he played 'the last post' at the dedication cerermony. The whole village turned out as the stone memorial was unveiled and he and his comrades that had survived, remembered those from the village that had been lost in the slaughter.............

 

 

.........how could he ever have imagined that only a few years later he would be called upon again, to play the same bugle, at the same memorial, as the names of his son, son in law, and brother were added.

all but one, he did not qualify !

 

My Grandfather, Harry

 

 

He and his elder brother joined the army in the 1920's, Their younger brother Ken was left at home, he was just a kid of 9, but vowed he would join up as soon as he could. Harry was only 15 but falsified his age.

It was the only way they could take pressure off the family during those harsh times of rural poverty.

The 'land fit for heros' was in decline, and just eating enough became a major priority. Within months Harry was fighting on the North west frontier. Eventually he returned, left the Army, married and started a family. To supplement a meagre income he stayed on the reserve list. This meant that he was one of the first to be called up in 1939.

The story of those troops sent to France is well documented. Harry's story was a little different. He was not killed during the retreat to Dunkirk, or taken off by the heroic little ships from the ravenged shores. He was one of the 120,000 left behind in a grand political gesture by Mr Churchill to help convince the French that Britain was not leaving, but merely implementing a tactical withdrawl. The idea was to keep the French fighting as long as possible, to enable as many British troops to escape from Dunkirk (and later Cherburg) as possible. Those troops left behind and ferried to the front were deemed to be expendable 'low grade units' like the pioneers, labouring companys. Soldiers like Harry that had previously been Regulars did not know how to surrender. (This was confirmed in german combat reports) and held on to stategic positions, or destroyed them in the face of the enemy. They payed the ultimate price and the only witness to their deeds were the French civilians.

Harrys first grave can be seen behind the official CWGC standard cross. It was made by the village carpenters the Muchard brothers, and paid for by the village communal funds. For years after the grave was tended and cared for by village school children, they put flowers on the grave and held a service for 'their tommies'.

Before the burial Harrys last letter to my grandma was taken from the pocket of his battle dress and remained in the Marie untill the early fifties.

Then it was unearthed and shown to the great nephew of one of the other British soldiers killed in the battle, he was so moved, he started the research that took 50 years to complete.

 

The first signs at home of a problem were the returned letters. As you can imagine - Granma was sick with worry, fortunately My mother was too young (4) to really take it on board.

 

 

In the mess and confusion of war, it took another 2 years befor the War department were informed via the French civil authorities, and were able to officially confirm grandma's worst fears.

 

 

It took another decade befor Harry was exhumed and had a proper burial with his mates in a war cemetary.

 

 

And what of his younger brother Ken, the one that could not wait to join up ?................he was killed Christmas 1943 at Monte cassino. No known grave, just a name on a stone.

 

 

And Doug,.....................he had his foot and lower leg blown off at El Alemein, Bayonet wound to the chest, but survived the war.

He died of a lung infection in 1946, age 24...............so he did not qualify for the war memorial.

 

 

These are the faces and those are the stories behind the names that are carved on the memorials in our cities, towns and villages. Behind every name, of any soldier, fighting for any country, there is a family that mourns the passing and bears the loss of an individual.

[extrogg]

Very moving...thank you for sharing.

 

"we will remember them"

[Enigma]

Don't know what to say.

 

:cry:

[mark m uk]

Don't know what to say.

 

:cry:

 

Your not alone. Nearly 100 views and only 2 responses.

 

Fact is, there is nothing to say. As I wrote at the top of the thread, my family's contribution is not extraordinary - there are thousands and thousands of stories like this.

 

I just wanted to put some faces to the otherwise fairly bland seemingly endless lists of names.

 

I had hoped, and still do, that other forum members can post up their family casualties if they so wish. In that way, we can be both specific, and broad, when we remember them.

 

Thank you Extrogg

 

Regards Mark.

[Topdog]

Wow Mark, very moving. I still have my dads stuff and treasure it, now that he is gone but at least he came back.

Thank you for sharing.

My wife and I always try to do a cemetary visit when we are in France and the hankies always come out - it's no bad thing.

Dave

[mark m uk]

Thank you top dog.

 

Here, is just a little more information on my Grandfather Harry.

This information took years to research - The situation in France at the end of June 1940, with the new 'management' did not lend itself to good record keeping at the time, so this was put together over several years by delving into British, French and German army records. Interviews with French civilians, and any number of resources.

 

By the first week in June 1940, Rommel and his guys had reached the western banks of the Seine. The bridges across the Seine had been blown by retreating French and British forces - temporary stalemate.

Harry had been with the forces that had crossed the Seine and blown the bridge at Pont de l'Arch, then moving north they found themselves in disarray just south of Rouen, in a village called Criquebuef.

 

Allied troops were moving north. Dunkirk had fallen and the only way out were the north western ports on the French coast. Every day Rommels tanks could be kept on the eastern side of the Seine, thousands of soldiers escaped, and tens of thousands of French civillians could get distance between themselves and the fighting.

 

Harry, was with two other Brits, Jack and Valentine (wounded) - they elected to stay behind in the village and help a group of French engineers that had been sent to destroy a small bridge in the village. The bridge did not link with the west bank of the Seine, but to an island, and it was considered that the Germans could cross to the island, then use this bridge to assault the main eastern side of France, and drive on to Paris.

 

Long story short, The Germans managed to get infantry across the Seine just north at Manoir via a partially destroyed rail bridge. Their orders were to take Criqubeuf and the bridge there.

 

As they assaulted the village (three o'clock in the morning, according to French civillian eye witness) a running battle raged and the British and French defenders were split in two.

Harry, his two mates, three French artillarymen and a Senagalise soldier

were seperated and fell back further into the village. Then they blew the bridge.

The Senagalise guy took up a position on the river bank and held the Germans back while the others tried to escape by swimming the river.

 

That is as far as the eyewitness could recall (or was willing to tell)

 

Official German army records state that the village was taken, but the bridge was not secured. It states that it was defended "with determination"

 

The French army records detail the action, and the French officer killed with Harry and the boys was awarded the Croix de Guerre for the action.

 

British army, took a guess that our guys were lost between the "2nd and the 17th" ( it shows on Harry's cross '7', but that '/' is actually a '1' on the record)

 

According to the Germans, it was actually the 13th - that ties in with French civillian witness.

 

It is debateable how exactly our boys were killed.

 

The Germans had declared that any white troops fighting alongside black troops would be 'dealt with severly'

 

Sekou Diouf (the senagalise trooper) was the lone survivor of his company that had been taken prisioner, they had been executed a week earlier.

 

The German army forbid the French civillians to bury the bodies for three months, they were to be left where they had fell ( perhaps this was to remind the civil population the price of resisting, or disobeying their proclaimation)

 

Your guess is as good as mine.

 

Below is part of the French civil police report, showing the layout of the village and the position of the bodies

 

 

The village, then and now (last week).

 

 

The road that they retreated down - leading to the bridge, (past eye witness house)

 

 

The bridge, (since rebuilt by Germans in 1942)

 

 

The foreground where Sekou took a stand, and the far bank where the other guys were killed.

 

 

The spot where Harry was killed - and layed for three months.

 

 

Some flowers I put there

 

Edited November 7, 2009 by mark m uk

[Great War truck]

Amazing story and photos. Very moving. Thank you.

[ted angus]

Both my Grandfathers served in WW1, Grandad Angus was killed on the eve of the battle of the Somme he was 22nd, R. N'umberland Fus. Grandad Bruce survived the war.

Grandad Angus died when my Dad was still a baby, Grandma then brought up 3 children alone; She was a wonderful lady.

Having moved south for work, My Mum & Dad were living in London when the Blitz started and moved to Luton, Dad worked at Commers (remained there all his remaining working life). My Dad when called up was 279 Fld Co RE 15th Scottish Div and took part in the fighting accross europe to the Elbe including witnessing the horrors of at least one concentration camp. After the war He & my Mum spent hours every week undertaking welfare work for The British Legion now of course the Royal British Legion. I did my stint of 39 years, but the only bullets I saw were in the run up to the Cyprus civil war when my wife ( who also served) and I were pinned down several times in gun battles in Limassol. My oldest son has served 21 yrs and saw service in N.I, then on the black Chinooks in GW 1 and with the Tornados in GW2. Youngest son served 16 years and saw service in GW1 then in GW 2 at Al Amarah and Basra.

Both their wives have served at Basra.

 

Tomorrow I will be thinking of the Lads and Lasses in Afgan ; Many of whom are just teenage boys and girls who have the hearts of Lions .

I will also be thinking of all the women and kids without a father /husband partener etc as a result of recent conflict and hoping they get better treatment than my Grandma Angus.

 

TED

ps I wonder what Mr Blair and his family will be thinking of may be the next ride on the gravy train sorry to be political but that's how I feel.

[radiomike7]

Thanks for taking the trouble to post a most moving story Mark, I knew a lot had been left behind but had no idea that it was so many.

[Tony B]

May I add my thanks for this contribution. Words are inadequate.

[haybaggerman]

We should all enjoy owning and using our MV's, having fun, meeting people, shows etc etc, nothing wrong with it as long as it also breeds a real respect and awareness for the people that served in them.

 

Important thread this one.

 

Paul

[paulob1]

this stuff should be remembered, and never forgotten...its seems to me that people have forgotten the horror of war, or the beauty of freedom...one or the other as we seem to be heading into ever more conflicts, the ever spoken lest we forget phrase seems to be lost on most people today...it seems sad we are at war in todays age...but innevitable with the 'holier than thou' attitude of so many people these days....

[snowtracdave]

Thank you for sharing your family story with us Mark . As others have already said...words are inadequate tools to add anything further .

 

Just on my way to lay a cross at our village war memorial for those of our local boys remembered there and specifically the uncle I never knew - Clarence Emerson Whitfield , RAFVR , who died in his Halifax when shot down over Germany and crashed into a reservoir where he and his crewmates drowned .

[Enigma]

In a Dutch newspaper was a article about British kids (9 - 15 years) and what they knew about WW2.

Some thought Goebbels was a jew who wrote a diary while hiding...some thought Hitler was the German national footballcoach...

 

For me its totally shocking to hear Brit youth isn't taught about the war when allmost aal their grandfathers or direct family was involved.

-We will remember them- ? (sorry if it offends you, I love the UK and citicens so no snipe at you).

[haybaggerman]

Just did a traffic duty at the local war memorial, average age of person at the service 65-70 years, average age of person sat in car having to be told to turn their engine off 25-40 years, depressing really,

 

Paul

[R Cubed]

Thanks for posting the account of your family's deeds

 

Cant say any more..:cry:

[rosie]

As others have said Mark, words are inadequate. Thank you for taking the time to post such a heartfelt and interesting post. I read lots of the threads on here but as I dont have the knowledge to respond to most of them!!!! But threads like yours are so important, so thanks again

 

We have just come back from the local RBL wreath laying ceremony. I am pleased to say there were lots of youngsters (I mean children here) most were members of the scouts and brownies but there were several families present. I would also like to add that everyone was quiet and still during the 2 minutes silence. Our 2 boys obviously know a lot about WW11 because of our hobby, I am very disappointed that they are not taught such an important subject at school (although saying that Jack our eldest did come home on Friday and told me that poppies come from Flanders so I suppose something was mentioned) I can bet they wont be holding 2 minutes silence on Tuesday though.

[Jack]

this stuff should be remembered, and never forgotten...its seems to me that people have forgotten the horror of war, or the beauty of freedom...one or the other as we seem to be heading into ever more conflicts, the ever spoken lest we forget phrase seems to be lost on most people today...it seems sad we are at war in todays age...but innevitable with the 'holier than thou' attitude of so many people these days....

 

The one thing I have learnt from history is the fact that we don't learn from history.

[snowtracdave]

Just back from our wreath laying and I am pleased to say that there were more in attendance than I have seen before, a rough head count was seventy and of those several were families with young children .

[oily]

Nikki, Brad and I went to the Royal British Legion, Rememberance Service in Eastleigh.

I reckon there must have been around 150, maybe 200 or so others, obviously not including the local youth orgs, Air Cadets, and Army Cadets, (slightly disappointed at their drill and turnout, not their fault, I admit, they only follow example...and if that's not good, well, ...suffice to say a better leader would do the trick!), back to the service....

after the well known reading: 'At the going down of the sun.....' etc, approx 30-40 people just wandered off!!, almost gave me the feeling they were gathering to see 'what's going on here?', and after losing interest quickly departing.

I personally found it a very moving service, as always, as did Nikki and Brad.

 

I fail to see why people have a problem stopping for what amounts to roughly 45 mins or so, of peace and thought for those lost, and for those who have lost others.

I stood silent for the 'two minute silence', despite my own discomfort, ...and still one could hear cars driving along the roads.

 

This service is held every year, and I shall continue to support it.

Thanks to all who did come and stay til the end,

And thanks to John, for the lift you gave Brad and I, in your 1939/40 Bedford OY truck.