steve M7B1 Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 (edited) http://google.com/newsstand/s/CBIw9PmqlSY Edited October 28, 2015 by steve M7B1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draganm Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 This is terrible, what a horrible accident. Sounds like they were firing live rounds. Breach block failure? filming for a movie? http://www.kgw.com/story/news/local/central-oregon/2015/10/27/explosion-gun-range-near-bend-sheriffs-office-says/74711904/ BEND, Ore. - Two Oregon City men died after an explosion inside a World War II-era tank at a firing range east of Bend Tuesday, police said. “This is a tragic day," said Sheriff L. Shane Nelson. "Two families lost loved ones, and our hearts and prayers go out to them." Austin Lee, 22, and Steven Preston, 51, were helping with a film project featuring the tank when the accident happened around 3 p.m. "The film crew was capturing video of the tank destroyer firing rounds," said Sheriff Nelson. "The video was to be used as part of a display of the tank destroyer at a future exhibit." He added that the explosion occurred inside the tank. Paramedics responded quickly and tried to save the two men, but they died at the scene, state police said. The film crew was working at a Deschutes County firing range operated by the Central Oregon Shooting Sports Association, near the town of Millican, about 25 miles southeast of Bend. Preston's Facebook page shows a photo of what appears to be the tank, surrounded by a smokey haze created by a fog machine. Other posts show the tank on display in various locations, surrounded by flags. He also writes about an episode on the Discovery program, "Combat Cash" where he apparently purchased vintage military shells for the tank and fired at a target. Local TV station KTVZ did a story on that show when it was filmed in Bend in 2011. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draganm Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 well if your going ot go out, might as well be doing something you love right? Sad for the young man though , 20 is just too short a time on this Earth [h=6]The home of Crook County resident Chuck Hegele was selected to film an episode of a new Discovery Channel reality show[/h]by: RON HALVORSON/SPECIAL TO THE CENTRAL OREGONIAN - Bob Chatt (left) and Owen Thornton, military pickers and stars of the upcoming show Combat Cash, haggle on camera with tank owner Steve Preston (right). Ron Halvorson People living near Chuck Hegele — Lone Pine's Cannon Man — are used to hearing things go boom, and to windows being rattled. By now, even a row of cannons lined up alongside an alfalfa field and pointed at targets on the distant, rocky, hillside gives but scant pause. A World War II-era tank rumbling down the road, now that's another story — especially when such a tank is being led by a camera crew in the back of a pickup truck. Hegele’s place, it turned out, was the locale for an episode of a new Discovery Channel reality series produced by Rob Lihani, filmed last Wednesday. “It had been working under the title ‘G.I. Dough,’” explained Lihani, “but now it’s called ‘Combat Cash.’ It's about our two military collectors that buy and sell all sorts of military stuff for all sorts of clients. Bob (Chatt) has a company down in Southern California in which he deals with this stuff all the time, and Owen (Thornton) is one of his picking partners. Owen is a guy who knows the stuff inside and out, and the two of them partner up and do different picks, buys, deal with clients, and that sort of thing.” It’s a nice premise for this series planned to debut in December, but that doesn’t explain how the production ended up at Hegele’s, where the tank came from, or even why this would be an interesting story. According to Hegele, he first met the tank’s owner, Steve Preston, through a third party, and a few years ago, Preston — whose hobby is collecting all things military — needed a legal place to store some propellant he acquired. Hegele obliged. Later, Preston was in the middle of restoring the tank, but after finally finding the breach, he was stymied by a futile search for ammunition. “Bob and Owen, they go all over and they buy military stuff,” Hegele said. “So they buy these eight (shell) cases and find out, ‘Hey, there’s a guy out there in Oregon that’s got a tank.’ So they called Steve up, and ‘Hey, I’ve got some bullets you need.’ But he didn’t have anybody (with the license) to put them together. What would I charge him to put the projectile together?” Preston — who admitted to a fascination with tanks since grade school — at last owned a completely restored M-18 “Hellcat” tank destroyer, replete with live ammo. He talked freely about Rachel (named after his wife), his preoccupation for the last 12 years. “It had originally come from Yugoslavia,” he said of the Hellcat. “There was an arms collector over in England that bought 20 of these, right from the Yugoslavian military, and shipped them to the U.S. to be sold to collectors, and museums, and things like that. It’s an American World War II tank destroyer, but the U.S. Army deemed it surplus back in the ‘50s, and sold them off to third world countries like Yugoslavia, Venezuela, etc.” “It was pretty complete,” Preston continued. “None of the accessories that you see on it were on it, and it needed to be completely refurbished inside and out as far as paint goes. The first thing I did was restore the outside of it cosmetically, sanded it down, repainted it. Made sure mechanically it would run and drive, and then over the last 10 years I restored the inside of the turret, and continued to gather all the parts and accessories for it. It’s kind of like building a model, except for in a much bigger scale.” The M-18 is special, according to Preston. Buick built 2,507 of them from 1943-1944 (his is a ‘44), each with a 76 mm main gun, and weighing 38,000 pounds. Noted as the fastest tracked vehicle of World War II, it had a top speed of 60 mph. The episode of Combat Cash took most of the day to film. There were takes and retakes. Shots were not in chronological order. What will be seen on the screen will not necessarily be how it really happened that day at Hegele’s, but with a tank, a supply of live shells, and willing participants, there was little doubt as to how the day would end. Crowned with period helmets, the tank crew (Preston, Chatt, and Thornton) sat in the turret as Hegele gingerly passed up a shell, all under the watchful eye of the camera. A warning was shouted, and then seemingly simultaneous, the blast and smoke from the tank’s cannon was matched with a thud and cloud of dust on the hillside, a thousand yards away. Windows rattled. “Extreme satisfaction” is how Preston characterized the moment. “It’s been a goal of mine for 12 years — as long as I owned it — to fire it, so to be able to realize that dream after 12 years was just really, really a good deal for me.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draganm Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 just realized, if it was en Ex Yugo tank, that gun would have been fired ot hell and back. Especially during the Bosnian conflict. The metal probably fatigued , but it will be interesting to hear the official report. You know ATF is going ot be all over this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean N Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Cross-posted here: http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?51521-TWO-got-killed-by-firing-an-WWII-tank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutch Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 I actually met Steve (the Hellcat owner) at Oktoberfest this year in Mt. Angel. He was a great guy--super friendly and happy to talk gears all day. So sorry for his friends and family. http://www.mvpa.org/2015/10/28/steve-preston/ Got a pic with two of his rigs after doing a run: Fun fact: his Hellcat got 0.85mpg. The APC he converted to diesel after blowing a cylinder while idling in a parade (the Hellcat has the same problem apparently). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newcoregon Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Hi; All I can add is that Steve was the anchor for the Oregon Military Vehicle Collectors and the Chairman for the MVPA Conventions in the US. The live round used a solid lead projectel and were very accurate at the artillery range near Bend OR. WE all wonder what happened? Newc in Oregon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 i had wondered if it was a misfire, that detonated when removed from the breech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I have read that was the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 thanks Adrian, real unlucky for those fella's to get caught out like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draganm Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I've read that this was not totally uncommon during wartime either. Was there a standard procedure that thank crews were trained to take for a mis-fire? I imagine if there as a Panther bearing down on you the misfire was the least of your worries but otherwise in training there must have been some kind of recommended procedure no? Maybe these guys were feeling rushed with the presence of a film crew on site? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I've read that this was not totally uncommon during wartime either. Was there a standard procedure that thank crews were trained to take for a mis-fire? I imagine if there as a Panther bearing down on you the misfire was the least of your worries but otherwise in training there must have been some kind of recommended procedure no? Maybe these guys were feeling rushed with the presence of a film crew on site? Not really a thing to discuss on here, but the origin of the shell could be of importance, especially if it had been reloaded. There is a procedure for misfires on any weapon and you never open the breach immediately. I have experienced them with small arms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Yes Richard, there are some rules you never breack. Unfortunatley in this case, loks like they did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draganm Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 well a quick search shows 1) declare misfire 2) re-cock firing pin, re-fire round 3) wait a period of time based on hot or cold bore 4) open breach, partially slide round back out and rotate 90 degree's 5) re-fire 6) remove and toss out loaders hatch Number 4 & 6 is enough to kill any curiosity I had or desire to fire one these (or even be in the turret). and just when you think the story can't get worse, Preston was the owner and president of Sergeants Towing Inc. in Portland. One employee said Preston was a wonderful man and they are just focused on keeping his company working. Preston leaves his wife and two daughters behind. at any rate Feds and an ATF are all over it now http://www.ktvz.com/news/explosion-in-tank-east-of-bend-injures-2-possible-fatality/36082806 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I was always taught hold on aim for one minute. If it don't go off leave pointing down range for at least 45 minutes before returning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Suslowicz Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I was always taught hold on aim for one minute. If it don't go off leave pointing down range for at least 45 minutes before returning. That's a good plan. (The longest 'hang-fire' I've ever experienced (with a firearm) has been a couple of seconds - with some very old and horrible .38 S&W that I assume had been badly stored.) With firework pyrotechnics it's usually "wait until after the show and the audience has left" before doing anything about it, after which time you can think about dealing with it - though if there's smoke coming out, you pour a bucket of water down the tube and wait half an hour. A friend told me about one rooftop display where a shell failed to launch, was still smoking gently at the end of the show, so they cleared away the rest of the kit, got some chairs out and sat around eating fish & chips until it finally launched - 40 minutes later than intended. I think the R.N. practice was to wait 30 minutes then dump the misfire over the side - this presumably only applies to the small stuff. If you're being shot at the rules will be rather different, of course (i've seen footage from GW1 where a 50 BMG was being fired with about 20% dud primers - the crew simply worked the action and carried on firing with a growing pile of spent brass and misfired rounds at their feet. Then again, if one did suddenly function it would be more like a small rocket than an explosion). Chris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 The Abbot misfire drill says 30 minutes. Andy Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 We all indulge in things where 'There for the Grace of God..' So my sympathy to the families and the Remeberance... Always follow the drills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.303fan Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 (The longest 'hang-fire' I've ever experienced (with a firearm) has been a couple of seconds - with some very old and horrible .38 S&W that I assume had been badly stored.) I have had some boxes of 1954 vintage .38 S&W, some did hang, others only had a primer but no powder. After ten shots I ended up running them through the bullet puller and powder mill. Even a .22 rimfire can be unstable and go off 4/5th of the way in the barrel. I still have it as a example. What happened to the two in the tank is awefull , mistakes were made and high prices paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newcoregon Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Hi all; I'll try to help here. The Military Vehicle Collectors Club of Oregon, held its meeting Monday night and witnesses explained that the breech ring was cracked apart and the breech/breech block and shell door were GONE... fragmented. The projectile exited the barrel correctly. So now there is an extensive investigation by authorities that is expected to take months The men's families have good support. That is all I can add to this post. Newc in Oregon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draganm Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 thanks for the news, so it was indeed metal fatigue and not any fault of gun operators. That's good information to have out there. Even though it won't change the tragic outcome of this incident, I think it's very useful info for anyone who is firing an antique gun , especially ones that have seen as much use as the former Bosnian M18's. I think for old cannons some magnaflux checking would be minimum , heck if it was mine I would have it X-rayed. Better yet, have a competent shop machine a new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondshooter Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Metal fatigue is just one option. the breach end of the gun has failed but was it exposed to more pressure that it was designed for? a closer examination of damaged parts is required , any remaining ammunition needs to be broken down and assessed, fired cases examined for excessive pressure , any video footage analyzed for changes in the recoil stroke and muzzle flash from the first to the last round fired . associated equipment like the recoil mechanism may also show signs of being overstressed if it was an ammunition fault. could still be anything ? Metal fatigue Failure of repaired de milled parts Incorrect assembly of parts Faulty ammunition Incorrect ammunition Other stuff I haven't thought of.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datadawg Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Metal fatigue is just one option. the breach end of the gun has failed but was it exposed to more pressure that it was designed for? a closer examination of damaged parts is required , any remaining ammunition needs to be broken down and assessed, fired cases examined for excessive pressure , any video footage analyzed for changes in the recoil stroke and muzzle flash from the first to the last round fired . associated equipment like the recoil mechanism may also show signs of being overstressed if it was an ammunition fault. could still be anything ? Metal fatigue Failure of repaired de milled parts Incorrect assembly of parts Faulty ammunition Incorrect ammunition Other stuff I haven't thought of.... Unfortunately, with our legal system being what it is, I am sure the district attorney is sharpening their hatchet and will be hunting for someone's scalp. It will be a shame if someone gets charged with a crime for what looks like a pure accident, but I would not want to be the guy that put together these shells or supplied anything, including fuel, to the Hellcat. There is a famous story here of a teenage girl borrowing dad's car and driving it on rural road with friends to get breakfast. She didn't have a license, crashed and killed 3 kids. They charged her dad, who let her use the car, with multiple homicides and he got 15 years in jail. It was a tragedy, but they needed a scapegoat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfire Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 I would be wary of posting conjecture on the incident on a public forum, but am a bit conflicted about it. In one way, it provides us, the MV community, with some insight about what can go wrong and cause catastrophic incidents like this, but in another way, this is a public forum and we are discussing what, I am certain, is an active investigation. Forum posts can and have been used in court as evidence and there may be restrictions about discussing certain cases in "the media", which also includes the interwebs. In any case, this is a very unfortunate event and it is always a great loss to the community when we lose any member, and particularly when they are active and influential members. Cheers, Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 The old ,old "management speak" words "risk assessment" comes to mind , you want assurance , you want risk assessment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.