Jack Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Hi Hanno, Following on from the Sherman thread and something you mentioned in the M4 HST thread.... How many Shermans do survive in the world? The good the bad and the ugly?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Not trying to speak for Hanno, but that is impossible to answer! How many under the sea? How many buried? Do you count things like Madill Yarders? You should run a competition Jack! Closest guess to Hannos estimate wins a haircut or something.:-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajmac Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I would change the question a little.... How many countries still have Gunned Shermans (i.e not Engineer or recovery variants) in their strategic reserve? It never ceases to amaze what turns up, who would have thought that the Russians refurbished 1,000's of German small arms in the late 1940s and kept them packed and racked (for some Cold War emergency) until 2007 when they suddenly poured onto the Western Deact market! Makes you wonder what else is lurking in deepest Siberia, perfectly preserved and.... perfectly obsolete. Early last year I had to rummage around in an old warehouse in Gdansk (Danzig) looking for some Turbine spare parts, no one knew what was in there and their were no lights to speak of! It's a different mentality to that we are used to in Western organisations - which is good :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcspool Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 (edited) How many countries still have Gunned Shermans (i.e not Engineer or recovery variants) in their strategic reserve? See my Sherman Encyclopedia for part of the answer. As far as I can ascertain no countries have Sherman (gun) tanks in their strategic reserve. All have been struck off charge, which does not mean there are no Sherman tanks in storage awaiting their final fate. . . - Hanno Edited January 29, 2009 by mcspool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcspool Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 As Adrian says, it is imposible to answer exactly, but and educated guess can be made. But yes Jack, let´s make this a competition! - Hanno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REME 245 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Its the Ukrainians releasing the German and American small arms on to the market. Russia proper is yet to sell any surplus small arms or armour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I would change the question a little.... How many countries still have Gunned Shermans (i.e not Engineer or recovery variants) in their strategic reserve?It never ceases to amaze what turns up, who would have thought that the Russians refurbished 1,000's of German small arms in the late 1940s and kept them packed and racked (for some Cold War emergency) until 2007 when they suddenly poured onto the Western Deact market! Makes you wonder what else is lurking in deepest Siberia, perfectly preserved and.... perfectly obsolete. Early last year I had to rummage around in an old warehouse in Gdansk (Danzig) looking for some Turbine spare parts, no one knew what was in there and their were no lights to speak of! It's a different mentality to that we are used to in Western organisations - which is good :-) If it still slings a bullet it 'aint obsolete. No such thing a friendly fire if your in front of it!!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajmac Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Good point about a bullet being a bullet.... However, when your country has so much modern armour, mass produced automatic weapons and you would be up against the USA / Western Europe, stocking bolt action rifles and T34s into the 21st Century seems pointless. Anyway - If we are putting on bets, I'll bet that if the former Eastern Block kept so much equipment for so many years there is bound to be a gold mine of Lend-Lease spares and equipment sitting in store....as well as the odd 75mm and 88mm German AT Gun....that would be logical, they wouldn't have stored German armour....would they:??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajmac Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 M4A2 (M4?) spares anyone? Possibly water ingress during storage:-\ These photos are from the Ukraine, caption suggests that the hull is to be pulled from the marsh later, the turret was removed first - photos in the last couple of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Good point about a bullet being a bullet....However, when your country has so much modern armour, mass produced automatic weapons and you would be up against the USA / Western Europe, stocking bolt action rifles and T34s into the 21st Century seems pointless. Anyway - If we are putting on bets, I'll bet that if the former Eastern Block kept so much equipment for so many years there is bound to be a gold mine of Lend-Lease spares and equipment sitting in store....as well as the odd 75mm and 88mm German AT Gun....that would be logical, they wouldn't have stored German armour....would they:??? Not if your idea of being 'Freindly' to less developed nations is to give them the means to wipe themselves off the earth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajmac Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Back to the thread....:coffee: How about 200 - 300 vehicles which are NOT in Museum or Collector hands or buried / under water! Practically speaking, of the 1,000's of Shermans which must have survived the wars they have participated in, the vast majority will have had a close encounter with a Oxy-Acetylene torch - does anyone have any scrap yard photos of Shermans being cut up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted January 30, 2009 Author Share Posted January 30, 2009 OK have added a poll - please add your vote! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 OK have added a pole - please add your vote! Are the girls going to dance around the pole? :yay: Or is it a poll..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcspool Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Are the girls going to dance around the pole? :yay: I´d rather see Jack add a pole to the clubhouse, than see him add a poll to the forum . . . . - Hanno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted January 30, 2009 Author Share Posted January 30, 2009 Oi you two! Now changed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Spoil sport, we'll never get the dancing girls back now. :yay: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajmac Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) M4A2 monument in France, doesn't look too bad at first? Oh... interior needs TLC.. Looks like it was hit during the war, due to the hole on the RHS just above and behind the centre bogie, the engine bulkhead also looks fractured rather than chopped about. These photos are from a French forum listed in the British Vehicles section of HMVF. Edited January 30, 2009 by ajmac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Don't think the French would appreciate someone hauling it away on a lowloader? Right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 Hanno...are we getting close?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcspool Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Hanno...are we getting close?? Hmm . . . . Jack, you want to change the thread caption in an effort to attract more people to vote in this poll? And tell them there's a case of beer to be handed out in the clubhouse among the ones who were the closest in guessing! Cheers, Hanno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcspool Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 (edited) Well, it´s time to relieve you all of your agony, seems there are hundreds of guys biting their nails out there . . . If you look at the results, there were 15 voters, 6 voted 1-500 survivors, 2 voted 501-1000, 2 for 1001-1500, 1 for 1501-2000 and 4 people bribed me for the answer. The bribes were sufficient so here we go: WORLDWIDE SURVIVING SHERMAN STATISTICS - online since 1997(!) As you can see, back then my database had 1003 records on surviving Sherman tanks and related AFVs. Now, these are the number of database records, not the actual number of vehicles. Normally one record represents one vehicle. Some records represent any number from 2 to a few hundred vehicles. All types of surviving vehicles are recorded; status varies from recognizable range targets to operational vehicles. Most vehicles are preserved in museums or private hands. Current status of some records is unknown. The corresponding vehicle(s) may have been relocated or scrapped. Those 1003 records were gathered in the pre-internet era by reading magazines & reports, writing letters, calling people and making fieldtrips. If I add up all the Shermans represented by these records, plus the new finds since the amount of information available through the internet has grown exponentially, I recon the actual number of Sherman tanks and related AFVs surviving in any sort of condition, must be in the 1001-1500 bracket. The guys who voted for that have a case of beer waiting for them. I´ll leave it at the clubhouse next weekend, so help yourself. Hope this is of interest! Hanno Edited February 3, 2009 by mcspool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 If it still slings a bullet it 'aint obsolete. No such thing a friendly fire if your in front of it!!. Sometimes it's none too friendly even when you are behind it!!! :shake: :shake: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centi521 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 i wan't one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 i wan't one! Well, life is hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajmac Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 There is always a way...just need to keep your ear to the ground and be in the right place at the right time. The easy option is to wish for loads of money and just buy one:-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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