rbrtcrowther Posted May 30, 2011 Author Share Posted May 30, 2011 Job done:)............ There was about 2mm of end float in the whole shaft with the bolt loose which was a tad worrying. I was waiting for my mate to bring a washer for the bolt because the old one is part of the nut. I made a temporary washer out of a smaller one opened up and tightened the bolt fully home, there is now just a slightly detectable bit of end float, All that remains to do is gob some of the magic glue on the splines and bung it all back together..... Which makes me wonder if the thing will be any quieter in top gear bearing in mind my flange nut was compleatly off and the the whole thing flapping about like a good un. It would also explain why the transmission brake drum was polished up shiny after the run out and the brake shoes worn away, me thinks its been broken for a long time before i got hold of it> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abn deuce Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Thats just plain scary to think about !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrtcrowther Posted May 30, 2011 Author Share Posted May 30, 2011 The guy that lent me all the tools is the chief engineer at a steam railway hence the bolt being whitworth. He turned up with a suitable washer but only had a second hand one of an old steam loco that is very likely to be 100 years old!!!:shocked: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero-Five-Two Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Damn fine effort, well done mate. Hope it solves the problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrtcrowther Posted May 30, 2011 Author Share Posted May 30, 2011 Thanks guys for all the support and kind words and advice, It really helped motivate me onwards. Fingers crossed it will all stay together and prove reliable......Now all i need to do is copy it to fixes and workarounds:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz76 Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Well done mate. Problem solved! :beer: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Just a thought, but I'm sure you know this, there shouldn't be any end float at all on the flange, maybe wise to check that nothing is burred over and jamming (as with all splined parts, best to mark and refit in the same position because of wear) and that the end of the shaft is below the end face of the flange before gooing it on, as it can get worn behind the washer. The goo will take up the spline wear, but if something is stopping the flange being pressed hard against the bearing to keep it square, because of the worn splines, some run-out and wobble may result. And nobody wants a wobbly flange. After is is gooed on this will be very difficult to cure, so a dry run to check wouldn't hurt. Perhaps some wise person on here knows the allowable run-out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrtcrowther Posted May 31, 2011 Author Share Posted May 31, 2011 (edited) I did de burr the end of the splines on the flange and it is a good snug sliding fit on the splines. I also measured the the length of the flange and compared it to the distance in to the bearing you can see when you look into the top of the box and all seemed ok. I don't think there is any run out on the flange but I suppose if i start it up and stick it in gear and have look to see. The end float was about 2 1/2 mm in the shaft with the flange removed ( just pulling the shaft in and out by hand ) and i could see the shaft and bearing moving in and out together. When i fitted the flange and then tightened the bolt up (for a dry run) the end fload has all but gone but is still just about detectable. Having looked at the diagram in the book all the bearings are straight roller bearings so i'm not sure how they are pre loaded for end float. I'ts all very similar to the land rover tranfer box but that runs on taper roller and has shimms under the outer bearing housing to tighten the shaft up. just to try and make clear it's the whole shaft compleat with flange and nut that has a tiny bit of end float with everything bolted up tight. Edited May 31, 2011 by rbrtcrowther Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 It seems to me the output shaft end float is controlled by the ball bearing in the gearbox, therefore all the components, flange, inner race of the roller bearing, gear, distance piece, inner race of the ball bearing, and washer, should all be preloaded by the nut (bolt in your case) against the step in the shaft. In theory, I think the only way there would be any end float is if the roller bearing is worn, I have just had a look at a really kn*ckered shaft here and the bearing is still very good, so I doubt that is your problem, all a bit puzzling. I suspect this many parts all prone to wear on one shaft is the source of the spline problem in the first place, not a good idea really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrtcrowther Posted May 31, 2011 Author Share Posted May 31, 2011 Well i think the only thing to do is bung it all together and give it a whirl. Being as the nut had broken off and the thing still drove merrily along one can only expect a huge amount of improvement..... My instinct keeps telling me "the amount of end float we have here compared to the size of the gearbox and the rest of the truck should be nothing to worry about" But i'm a bit of a mechanical perfectionist :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrtcrowther Posted June 2, 2011 Author Share Posted June 2, 2011 Well good news so far.....gave the scammell a run up and the flange runs true, There was no need to put it in gear the flange turned with the oil and gears turning. I then refitted the bolt with the good washer from my mate and tightened it back up and there is no sign of any end float at all now:-D I then pulled it all apart and cleaned everything with petrol and then thinners and bunged it all back together with the loctite 660 and now hope for the best. Fitted the propshaft but after the huge effort to lift it up to the flanges i gave up and came in. I'll jack the back wheels and tighten it all up tomorrow hopefully:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero-Five-Two Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Fingers crossed for you, hope it's a good one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrtcrowther Posted June 5, 2011 Author Share Posted June 5, 2011 Took the Scammell out again tonight and the horrible grumble had gone.....It still whines like a good un but i think it is slightly better than before. It's also the the first run with the injector pump turned down and it was even more gutless on the hills, however there is only a sight black haze at full power and i dipped the tank again and it seems to have used about half the fuel compared to last time on the same route.Thats about an improvement from 4.5 miles per gallon to about 8 miles per gallon. Black smoke costs a fortune it seems. I might have a further fiddle just to get i tiny bit more poke but to be honest i'm not too botherd, i'll just change down.......alot:red: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 So no fear of ripping the guts out of the gearbox with that Meadows, so that's alright then! Whining is fine......Explorer musac Good fix, glad it worked.... happy Scammelling! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrtcrowther Posted June 12, 2011 Author Share Posted June 12, 2011 Went out again yesterday and all seems well,Really starting to enjoy plodding around but still debating weather to turn the pump back up a tad.A round trip of 6.5 miles uses 1/2" in the tank at the mo and that's cold on some really hilly stuff. Only had one small mishap, After setting out from home down the stupidly narrow lane i belted a bloody great blolder sticking out of the poxy stone wall with the front hub. Had to stop and check for steering damage but all seems ok apart from a huge graze on the front hub and rear hub:blush: Bloody steering wheel nearly flung me round the cab though> If i hit it again i'll rip it out the wall with the winch and leave it in the layby. All this because a lorry hit it years ago and nobody has ever botherd to sort the wall out. well i'll sort the bloomin wall out if nobody else...........:argh: P.S lane is slightly wider now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz76 Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Glad to hear you're back on the road Rob. A great idea for the fix too. Go on, rip the wall apart-you know you want to...:whistle: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrtcrowther Posted June 19, 2011 Author Share Posted June 19, 2011 Yet another blast round and all seems well, It's rather funny how people come out of their houses to look but then you can hear it 2 miles down the road!! The guy down the road came out so i let him have a run round with me and it seemed to make his day, he's restoring a bus so i hope it spurred him on a bit.:laugh: Going to get my roadside cover from Auto home this week for piece of mind, Not bad at £105 for the year. I still get worried it's going to break down or something stupid is going to happen so here is a questions......Appart from the propshaft whats the most common form of breakdown of a scammell. how many miles is a long way........ an what is a sort of average speed?:nut: I try to sit at about 25-28mph althought it sounds ok at full throttle on the flat at about 34mph. (speed record to date is 37mph down hill with trailing wind:drive:)And even then its sort of sounded ok and sat there whining away merrily. I just have visions of the rear propshaft exploding if i keep the speed on. I think what i really need is a ride in someone elses explorer at speed as i have nothing to compare it to. For all i know i might be awfull or even really smooth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero-Five-Two Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 I dont know about most common cause of breakdown, but certain things seem to be guaranteed. 1. you will be miles from anywhere. 2. It will be cold/wet/dark etc. 3. you wont be able to get a signal on your mobile to phone the recovery. 4. you will be blocking the road. 5. no one will offer to help you, they will only shout abuse as they squeeze past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrtcrowther Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 thanks for that.....that's really inspiring:-D I wish the guy down the road would pull his finger out and get his bus sorted so we can have a bit more piece of mind.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 And even then its sort of sounded ok and sat there whining away merrily. I just have visions of the rear propshaft exploding if i keep the speed on. I think what i really need is a ride in someone elses explorer at speed as i have nothing to compare it to. For all i know i might be awfull or even really smooth. Yep... know the problem, most people today only have experience of old Explorers, which have been well used and abused, so when they say 'Oh they're all like that' it doesn't help at all! I'm sure you know all this, but It does help to remember that the speed limit for these vehicles at the time they where built was 20 mph, try driving below that speed for a bit, you will be amazed how (relatively) refined it all is. Then think that they wouldn't have gone too far without a good load on tow which calms down the manic rattles, and you get the idea that you are most likely driving it too fast....having said that I tend to do the same speed you do, and after years of tinkering I can now hold a conversation..:shocked: Achilles heels, rear prop, rear hubs loosening and rubber couplings, if your prop is not 'as new' in all respects think about getting a new one, owners who have done this say that with modern seals they don't loose all the lube every 100 yards...always a bonus. When greasing your (old) prop UJs make sure grease emits from all four journals every time, grease it every time you move it! Can't remember if you have rubber couplings but if so wrap them round with wire a few times to hold the rubbers in place if they come loose, and keep an eye on them every time you go out.. Rear drums, check regularly they haven't moved, paint lines across ends of nuts as a guide, after a while you will be confident they are tight and can relax. Other than that make sure the noises aren't coming from all the various rods and linkages rattling about under the floor, cab panels buzzing against the frame, dog growling, passengers screaming etc. all basic stuff really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrtcrowther Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 Ok thanks for that, The good news is i had the metalastic couplings re manufactured professionally so they should last another 50 years and the engine has been lined up as close as i could be botherd with ( about 2 or 3mm out but out the right way so the torque reaction hoiks the engine over back in line) I've had the hubs off to do the seals and spanked them up tight and they were scribed accross the nut and shaft from the last time they were off probably in service. everything was marked....The hubs, both keys, the nut ,and the shaft. As for the propshaft it seems in good nick but the seals arn't much cop. I grease every time it moves but there is a pressure release valve in the yoke that lets the grease out. Shoud i block this release valve so i can definatly force the grease through the yoke or leave well alone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scammell 7377 Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 rob, whats auto home all about ? is it hgv recovery there was a guy putting leaflets on trucks awhile ago but ive heard he has retirered id need somthing that would take theliving van home as well andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 I blocked my relief valves up, they were very weak, made sense to me, I suppose they where meant to stop the oil pressure bursting the seals, (book says use oil) a bit late for that now! Bearings running in oil are supposed to last longer than ones in grease, but no way of keeping it in any more. Funny thing all this greasing lark, the grease is always flung out, but the last bit would surely stay in the cups, like swinging a bucket of water, and a sealed for life UJ never has more than that much in it from new. The galleries inside the Scammell UJ are very large, presumably to hold a nice lot of oil to cool and counter seepage, so it takes a huge amount of grease to purge the bearings. If the galleries where smaller, say 3mm then the small amount of grease in them would not have the same weight and centripetal forces would have a lot less wasteful effect! So, I reckon all the grease except the bit in the cups has gone in the first mile, you do the rest of your 50 miles between grease ups with empty galleries, and could most likely do many hundreds more. Seems to me UJs designed for grease have smaller galleries, so it only takes a few pumps to purge them, and it is not flung out, so all this grease pumping is a bit silly really........but it gives us something to do :nut: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrtcrowther Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 rob, whats auto home all about ? is it hgv recovery there was a guy putting leaflets on trucks awhile ago but ive heard he has retirered id need somthing that would take theliving van home as well andy Autohome are a recovery service a bit like the aa or rac but they also do the heavies too, they do horseboxes and commercial recovery and also rates for classic commercial but you have to phone them up.Vehicles up to 3.5ton £93.50.....Vehicles 0ver 3.5Ton up to 16ton £105......vehicles in excess of 16ton (incl drawbar and other articulated combinations) £159..... Recovery anywhere in UK up to £1000 costs (i don't think they cover you if you run out of fuel, Get stuck in snow or soft ground... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julezee001 Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Yet another blast round and all seems well, It's rather funny how people come out of their houses to look but then you can hear it 2 miles down the road!! The guy down the road came out so i let him have a run round with me and it seemed to make his day, he's restoring a bus so i hope it spurred him on a bit.:laugh: Going to get my roadside cover from Auto home this week for piece of mind, Not bad at £105 for the year. I still get worried it's going to break down or something stupid is going to happen so here is a questions......Appart from the propshaft whats the most common form of breakdown of a scammell. how many miles is a long way........ an what is a sort of average speed?:nut: I try to sit at about 25-28mph althought it sounds ok at full throttle on the flat at about 34mph. (speed record to date is 37mph down hill with trailing wind:drive:)And even then its sort of sounded ok and sat there whining away merrily. I just have visions of the rear propshaft exploding if i keep the speed on. I think what i really need is a ride in someone elses explorer at speed as i have nothing to compare it to. For all i know i might be awfull or even really smooth. I'd agree with 25-28mph. It all gets too noisy faster than that, and I feel the wear and tear gets higher when flat out as you say at about 37mph. The main problem I've had was with the fuel tank pick-up getting blocked a lot on the first few runs after 20 or so years off the road. Largely cured by cutting a large hole in the tank bottom, scraping out several lbs of dirt, and re-welding. Otherwise batteries dying over the winter time whilst sitting out, and an intermittant fault with the original cut out /jump lead box from the batteries, which cuts most of the dash power, requiring a short across the starter terminal to get her started occasionally. So far I have only had to replace one u/j on a rear propshaft on the two Explorers we run around, and that has nearly 40k miles on the clock, although I've no idea what's original on it on the running gear. Glad you and the local residents are getting so much pleasure from your Explorer. Jules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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