Jack Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 Being a new comer to the movement I can see things from a different angle as to a certain degree I have no preconceptions and I have many thoughts on the movement, good and bad. One of them being that I am amazed at how this movement isn't proactive in making a noise that it is here. Yes, we do see events and shows but it would be interesting to know how many of the visitors are MV fans, is the movement preaching to the converted? In my experience, this movement seems to be very warm and welcoming but could it be doing more to encourage the next generation of owners to take on the responsibility of these amazing pieces of history. Is the movement investing enough time in to the future owners. To me there is a lot of great work that could and should be done, is the future safe? Cheers. Jack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 The biggest problem we'll have in the future is stupid politicians making stupid laws, making our hobby more difficult or expensive. Already in some european countries it's very difficult to own armour. The Americans can't buy any US armoured vehicles, only imported ones, and they can't re-import ww2 stuff without loads of problems. We're lucky that we still have regular sales of AFVs in this country, but how long will it last? They'll always be people who want to restore military vehicles, and many more who want to look at them. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Grosvenor Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 In my experience, this movement seems to be very warm and welcoming but could it be doing more to encourage the next generation of owners to take on the responsibility of these amazing pieces of history. Is the movement investing enough time in to the future owners. . Hello Jack, Have you seen the editorial in this months CMV Magazine? It asks the same question of how to bring new blood into the hobby. It picks up on the high prices of MV compared to classic cars and how it would be difficult for younger enthusiasts to afford to start a MV collection. I have to say I agree, yes I know that Military Vehicles would have cost alot more new than a similar aged classic car, but think about it. A rough Jeep needing work is at least £5000, good ones over £12,000, rumour has it that Johnny Deepe paid £17,000 for one, you could buy a good Porsche or even a poor Lambo for that! At the sensible end, £1500 to £2500 would by a really good everyday classic. There was a programme on recently, I think it was called "Big Boys Toys" ,or something like that, and on it there was an American Multi-Millionaire who has one of the largest collections of Military Vehicles in the world and even he was saying how he would like the prices of MV to go down not up. Regards Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest matt Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 I think there are problems in the HMV movement,but in my opinion a lack of younger people is not one of them,I know many military vehicly owners who are under forty and a good number who are under thirty(including myself). I must admit that I have distanced myself from the HMV movement here in the UK,I don't buy CMV and I have not been an MVT member for a few years,I DO however get some of the classic truck and tractor magazines as I find they have much more in the way of news that affects all classic vehicle owners and they also have stories of detailed restorations folks have carried out. I know others might not agree with me but I think the military vehicle movement in the UK is lagging way behind that of the US and Europe and even within the UK it's way behind the classic truck,tractor,car,bus,train,tram etc etc movement. I would be interested to hear the thoughts of others on this. Matt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 I think that you/we can never do too much to promote the movement, but it really gets me when so called supporters/members nit pick etc at certain types of MVs, for instance in a recent issue of CMV a writer stated his dissaprovall at how many Landrovers were at a MV show, for staters I only got into the hobby because of landys as they were/are a cheep way to get into the hobby (as have/will alot of other people do) , seacondly any MV that turns up to a show has to be a bonus, and that there is so much diversity in any one make/type of MV that the amount of a certain MV should not matter it should be the content, anyway enough ramblings I just think that yes we can do more to promote the movement and that Sites such as this are a step in the right direction, so good on you Jack and everyone else that contributes to this and other sites. Thanks. Tyler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dotty Dodge Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 Hi All I agree with most of the comments made but definatly the comment made buy Richard about the price of mv. I am only 18 and to buy my Dodge WC i had to save very hard! Especially with apperentice wages! How is it that the younger generation is expected to take over the task of preserving these fantastic pieces of history with the prices of mv's increasing all the time! Theres a list of vehicles i would like to buy and restore but buy the time i can afford to buy one of them they have incresaed value. :cry: But everythink in life cant be easy so im still saving for my next mv I also found going to the shows as a member of the public it is very hard to get to know people! But once you have a mv and go to shows and join in you find out what a fantstic crowd of people mv owners are!!!!!! and all of you on here are very fine examples!!! Best Regards Rowan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted January 8, 2006 Author Share Posted January 8, 2006 Keep them coming chaps as this is some great feedback. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degsy Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 I don't think we should fall into the British way of being too self critical, whilst I agree that there are faults, well thats life, nothing is perfect. We did get a lot of very good publicity in the past 2 years the various 60th anniversaries and we should try to build on that but other than attending shows, RBL and charity events etc what , if any, are the suggestions as to what we should be doing. :?: Cheers Degsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest matt Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 Hi Degsy, For starters personally I would like to see a judging standard like that of the MVPA in the states or like the vintage and classic tractor guys here have,I feel it would raise the standard of MV restoration in the UK and at the same time raise the profile of MV collecting. I do think the military vehicle community in the UK can be rather a "clique",or at least that is what I found when I first started collecting and it can be off putting to someone new. Matt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degsy Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 Hi Matt I can see where you are coming from on the judging standards issue but many MV people are not interested in awards but merely want to enjoy their vehicles without worrying about the vehicle being exactly as it came from the factory. I can see both points of view and feel it is up to the individual owner to do as he or she thinks fit. I am very surprised that you should have found the movement cliquish as personally I have found it to be very friendly and most MVers will go out of their way to offer help and advice. I would not like to see the movement go too competitive as this has been the failing of many hobbies. These comments are merely a personal opinion and not a criticism aimed at you or anyone else. Regards Degsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest matt Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 Hi Degsy, I can see that having a judging standard could make it competitive but only for those who actually want to enter such a thing,I for one am not interested in winning anything.at least with a set of standards like the MVPA use it does offer different levels,I think it's good to have somthing like factory class or motor pool as it gives anyone restoring a vehicle something to aim for and it stimulates more research into specific vehicle types. As for the clique thing maybe it's just certain people I was unfortunate to come into contact with,all I'm saying is it could put somone looking to get into MV's off slightly IF they do encounter a negative attitude. Matt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Grosvenor Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 Hello, I have to say I agree with Degsy, I think if the hobby became too competitive it would be a bad thing. It would probably result in more "cheque book restorations", just have a look at some of the restorations in Classic Commercial Vehicle Magazine, with some haulers just trying to out-do each other, and pushing the true enthusiasts even further out. Saying that there is some excellent home restorations in there which are an inspiration to anyone thinking of restoring a vehicle Matt, I'm also surprised you've come across negative people in the Military Vehicle hobby, everyone I've come across has been very helpful and friendly. When my Militant "temporally failed to proceed" ( it did NOT break down! ) on a way to a show I lost count of the amount of people who stopped to offer help, maybe I have just been very lucky. Regards Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degsy Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 To be fair to Matt I did pose the question and Iam sure they are his honestly held opinions but I was thinking more in terms of getting more (positive) exposure in the media. Degsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 Oh now I don't think we need more judging! My wife goes to horse shows & everything is judged. There are a lot of tears & traumas for the majority who don't get judged top of the class. It causes so much upset, yet they keep on entering & paying to do so. I suggested once that someone hire a field, have a burger stall & a beer tent. Sell some bits of surplus saddlery, books etc. walk round look at each others horses, chat, have few beers & watch a few displays. Have a ride past & just generally enjoy the hobby & take it easy on a nice summers day. She looked blank & said "What would be the point of all that?" So we don't want to get like that! Judging is an unenviable responsibility & I know we don't have bicycles versus tanks as such. But I have seen things win first prize because it looks dandy but is rusty underneath or things painted on or bolted on that never should be there. I was at a show & a judge came up & asked why I had marked my entry "Not to be judged" I explained that my very nice Wolf Land Rover was an ex-Withams wreck from a RTA. But it was not restored by me so whats the point in awarding me a prize. I think the judge was a bit perplexed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 Regarding judging, you have to be very experienced and knowledgable to do it fairly. The MVPA shows are nearly 90% if not more, of US vehicles, nothing like the cosmopolitan arrays we get at places like Beltring. I judged British Post War Armour at Beltring for several years.....and took it very seriously, taking up several days of going around making sure no vehicle was missed. What really miffed me was the following year when someone else judged, the vehicle that won that class was a Hellcat !!!! The only thing British about it, was the owner. Many years ago I attended a rally at SEME Bordon, the REME Training School. The judges were Instructors there and they did virtually an MoT test trying the lights, feeling the brakes, etc. Mind you I did win a 1st prize for my M20, so was quite chuffed. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest matt Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Hi Guys, Looks like I'm alone on this! I must admit Richard I don't agree with your comments about so called "chequebook restorations" as you imply that those who carry out a full no expense spared restoration are not "true enthusiasts",I personnally like to see the trucks in Classic Commercials magazine which have been fully restored. I see no difference between someone who has the money to pay for a restoration to be carried out and somone else who restores a vehicle himself,a judging system(should) go by the quality of the restoration carried out,not who did it. I would like to make it clear that by having a judging standard I am not talking about any prize or personal cudos for the owner of the vehicle but the standard recognizes the quality of restoration of a specific vehicle reguardless of wheather the owner of the vehicle restored it or not. Also it would be entirely up to the owner of a vehicle wheather he entered it to be judged or not. Matt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest matt Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Just to add to what I said above,without some form of set standard how can we tell if a good quality restoration has been carried out on a vehicle? several times I have travelled to see a vehicle with a view to buying which the owner discribed as "fully restored" only to find that the restoration was no more than a repaint and a set of tyres! yet because the owner thinks the vehicle IS restored his asking price is often the same as that of a similiar truck which HAS been the subject of a full detailed restoration! this is in part the reason why it's difficult for someone wanting to get into MV's,everyone thinks their truck is 24k gold plated! With regard to what I said earlier about the attitude of some MV owners,a few years ago I was at a show and in the line of vehicles there was a Dodge WC-54 with a For Sale sign on it but no price,I eventually found the owner and when I enquired how much he wanted for the truck his reply was "more than you could afford sonny"! I didn't know the guy so I must assume his only reason to presume I couldn't afford the truck was my age(I was 23 at the time).it's that kind of attitude that could put younger people off getting into MV's. Rant over :twisted: Matt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessie The Jeep Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 There are plently of young people out there interested in re-enacting and vehicles. During 2005, the NE MVT were asked to display vehicles at several schools having VE/VJ Celebrations, and the kids thought it was great, especially the few who climbed in the vehicles for a newspaper shoot. In the late teens to late twenties catagory, there are still plently of people interested, BUT................and it is a big but, that has already been stated in the thread, money is a big factor. When I first started looking for a jeep, early 2005, I found a few internet adds listing M201's starting at £5000, but these turned out to be old ads. I think everyone is realistic enough to say that most military vehicles aren't worth what is paid for what you get. Not that driving my jeep in 2005 wasn't worth every penny, it was a fantastic year and Lynne and I met loads of new friends, plus had a very special holiday in Normandy with the jeep. One of the few plus sides of the price, is that unlike modern vehicles, where the price falls through the floor as you drive out of the show room, you are much less likely to loose money. Due to these expensive prices, there's a couple of guys up here who jointly bought a Dodge WC51, and share the fuel and maintenance costs. Syndicate Ownerships are very popular in the aviation world, but so far, this Dodge is the only case I've heard for vehicles. Is this a common practice in the MV world, or is it something that vehicle owners don't think about or don't want to share 'their' vehicle?? It seems a sensible way forwards to me if finances dictate that single ownership is not possible. I don't think we need to educate the younger generation ( :lol: I'm 36!! ) about the vehicles to gain their interest, but I do think we need to show ways of getting into the hobby in an affordable way. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berni Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Me & russ were fairly young when we started the hobby & at that time paid £500.00 for a series 3 landrover. we chose it as a second vehicle that could be used for a hobby & for general family use. The tentage uniforms & everything else sort of appeared every so often without us realising. we then bought a second one & a sankey to carry all the kit. when we made the decision to buy a WW11 we managed to sell both Lannies & our Falklands kit to fund the vehicle. As a young family we didn't have the funds to go straight into an expensive hobby but managed quite nice with the Lannies for a few years & the uniforms were peanuts in comparison, lightweights £6.00 & shirts £2.00.jackets were only a fiver as well. We did come up against some period snobbery from some of the old school but we had made enough friends by that time and dismissed it as their loss. I still have a soft spot for the lanny & would like another one at some point & it is an ideal starting place for someone just starting out. I do think there are less predudices now than there was 15 years ago & that it is more of an accessible hobby. There seem to be a lot more Mvers under 40 than there used to be as well which can only be good for the hobby. Maybe others see it differently or maybe it is different in other part of the country, i can only speak from my observations. cheers Berni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Grosvenor Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 I must admit Richard I don't agree with your comments about so called "chequebook restorations" as you imply that those who carry out a full no expense spared restoration are not "true enthusiasts",I personnally like to see the trucks in Classic Commercials magazine which have been fully restored. I see no difference between someone who has the money to pay for a restoration to be carried out and somone else who restores a vehicle himself,a judging system(should) go by the quality of the restoration carried out,not who did it. Hello Matt, Don't get me wrong I love to see well a restored vehicle and I do realise that some people have more money than time so they pay someone else to restore their vehicle, but I do live near to two of the biggest commercial vehicle restorers in the country who nearly every month, have at least one of their vehicles featured in Classic Commercial Magazine. So I do see the other side of the person in the magazine feature. One of them is a really nice bloke who even though is a very busy man will spend time talking and offering advice or even just a wink and a smile when seen at a show. But the other one , well lets just say on many occasions I have asked him for a helping hand when I've been really stuck with a problem. No help has ever been returned. I almost get the feeling that that he doesn't want anyone else in the area to have a nice vehicle which may take the attention away from his vehicle's. Other people I know have also said the same. It's a bit sad really! I don't think that people who are in a hobby just to be better than everyone else by throwing huge sums of money at a vehicle are true enthusiasts. Sorry! Regards Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest matt Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Hi Richard, In the situation you discribe I would tend to agree with you,there are some who restore a vehicle (or have it restored) just to be "one up" on everyone else and who possibly have no real interest in the vehicle or it's history. a good point though with "chequebook restorers" is they can afford to restore a rare vehicle which someone on a budget might consider too far gone to rescue. As with everything there are pros and cons but I'm glad there are folks out there who are willing to throw large sums into a vehicle. Matt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted April 5, 2010 Share Posted April 5, 2010 Ok four years on, thought I'd bump this one to the top to see where we are today?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Garner Posted April 6, 2010 Share Posted April 6, 2010 There seems to be a fair amount of interest amongst younger people. I just don't know where I'm going to get the money to fund all the vintage/military kit I want. Luckily we already have access to storage facilities so that's a bonus. In a way I suppose it all depends what background you come from, we can only work to 'advertise' MVs to the public, or people who are thinking of buying a classic vehicle. I believe there's many vehicles you can get into the hobby on cheap, even if it is only a Landy. :-). Sites like this are a godsend to the MV movement, a place where we can all come together, gain/give knowledge, help others out and organise events. No disrespect to the MVT but it seems they could do so much more. In past years we've often thought of having a get together of vehicles in the Beds, Herts and Cambs area, but of course nothing has ever materialised. Regards, Lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted April 6, 2010 Share Posted April 6, 2010 I couldn't care less if my wins a prize or not. I own theDdodge, and did own the 101 to enjoy them. It amazes me to see Concor's clases with people dementedley cleaning air vents with cotton buds. trailer things about so no mud gets on the wheels.. Could you see any of that lot charging round the ring, or having a load of blokes in hob nail boots jumping in and out? How do you encourage the next generation TALK TO THEM!!!! Don't rope everything off, involve them. Tell me I might not understand, show me I might forget, involve me, and will be hooked for life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted April 6, 2010 Share Posted April 6, 2010 (edited) Can I be contravertial and say that one reason that there is not many younger members coming into the movement COULD be that there is too much emphasis on wearing uniforms, owning guns, and building military camps at shows. Not everyone comes from a military background or aspires to be a soldier. Those of us, who like me, have no intention of dressing up, and stripping Lee Enfields on a Sunday morning sat round the camp fire, wearing camo, might feel left out. I think we need to do more to promote ownership of military vehicles, without trying to sell the new enthuiasts a whole lifestyle they MAY not want. Edited April 6, 2010 by antarmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.