Military books

[Tony B]

For reasons that may become apparent later. Do the forum think that the standard of books on military subjects is going down? It seems to me that with modern technology allowing a book to be stored electronically and virtually printed one at a time as orders come in, publisher's are just filling thier catalouges with titles and not even bothering to read them.

[Degsy]

I think you are probably right Tony,although there are still a few good ones coming out in some cases the barrel is definitely being scraped.

[LeeEnfield]

Aye, certainly in certain subjects;...........Jeeps for example; Just HOW mant books can be supported by a (Ok fairly large ) finite amount of photo's,..............on this subject, the same can be said for magazine articles;..........And NO, NOT having a pop at jeep owners, I enjoy reading articles etc about them,......but find I'm reading/looking at the same words/pic's time and again.

 

I tend to buy quite a few books, but have noticed myself getting far more cautious recently

For authors, it must be difficult, what with loads of info available almost imediatly via search engines, etc,

Also, along with the opening up, of subjects, via the web, - and the increased interest in said subjects,...............and indeed research, etc still being carried out, must made the writing of any book, esp if it takes a few years to research and write, fraught with being looked at as factually wrong in same area's, and gaining unfavourable reviews, etc.

 

having said that, well known photo's that are re-produced with wrong/incorect captions, do wrankle.

 

Andy

[Tony B]

Thanks Guys. I was beginning to think it was only me.

[79x100]

When was the high point for accuracy and depth of information ? Most 1970s books seem pretty thin on hard facts now. I suspect that it's part of growing old. When we start with a new interest, we buy everything and believe it all and then at some point we realise that we know more than many of the authors. They have deadlines and budgets and we can spend years focussed on just one machine.

[ashley]

When was the high point for accuracy and depth of information ? Most 1970s books seem pretty thin on hard facts now. I suspect that it's part of growing old. When we start with a new interest, we buy everything and believe it all and then at some point we realise that we know more than many of the authors. They have deadlines and budgets and we can spend years focussed on just one machine.

 

 

 

 

The trouble with some authours is that they are just collectors of information and not nessacerily having knowledge on the subject matter. This was definately true of military books of the late sixties and early seventies, untill specialist knowlwdge was begining to be spread and become readily available

 

Ashley

[Great War truck]

I agree with all the comments made. So, does anybody have any good suggestions for MV books that need to be published. My preference would be of course stuff on WW1 trucks, however as there is not necesserily a great deal of interest in them i doubt many publishers would consider the idea.

 

I was always unhappy about the lack of WW1 truck articles in magazines, so i did something about that with MMI and Windscreen. I guess that if i am unhappy about the lack of Great War truck books then i need to do something about that as well. Would anybody buy one if i wrote it?

 

Tim (too)

[Jack]

Great thread.

 

So what does make a good book :???

 

I have the Red Ball Express book here by Pat Ware and this is a great example of how a book should be.

 

I have a written a review of it.

[Degsy]

Sorry Jack but in this case I can't agree with you, no new informaton and several glaring errors.

[Great War truck]

I guess as to how good we think a book is depends on how much we know on the subject already. For example Jack (by his own admission a "Virgin Soldier") has probably not read many books on Red ball, while others of us already have several to compare it to and will spot mistakes quickly (the whole "Cherbourg" thread for example). I know nothing about Antar trucks and would not be able to spot a fault in Pats book. We are all a lot less tolerant to mistakes in books.

 

I bought "Operation Cobra" in paperback a couple of years ago and it was so full of faults you wonder if the author was just making things up. Makes you very distrustful of what else he has written. Anyway, that book has gone to make room for others on the book shelf now.

 

It is a bit unfortunate that the only three books we have mentioned by name have the same author.

 

Tim (too)

[Great War truck]

So anyway, just so as not to leave Pat left out, i would say that (recently published) book purchases that i have enjoyed are the After the Battle "Rucksmarsch", which i thought brilliant. Also bought Passcehdale by Peter Barton which have of course been reviewed on this forum. One i have in the pile to read is the latest Histoire and Collections "Dying for St Lo". H & C books really are fabulous, and i always make a point of looking out their latest releases to buy. Curious to my mind is that the majority of the best WW2 books published have French authors or publishers. On the other hand "Dynamics of Destruction" by Alan Kramer really is appalling. Not too sure who is target audience was, but stay clear of anybody holding that book.

 

So going back to the initial question, i would agree that their are more military books published and much much more dross, but there are still the gems in the dung heap. You only have to sift through it to find them. As we become more experienced we are all less tolerant of bland and incorrect books. I still have my first military book "Great Battles of WW2" which is inscribed in the cover "To Timothy on his 8th Birthday love Mummy and Daddy". For a long time this was the best military book i owned (certainly the largest). Inaccurate and bland I loved it and took it everywhere. Well read it has a special place on the bookshelf.

 

Tim (too)

[Degsy]

Just had 2 books from the library, 'Beneath Flanders Fields' by Peter Barton, Peter Doyle, and Johan Vandewalle a brilliantly researched book about the tunnellers war, once started hard to put down.The other is 'Band of Brigands' by Christy Campbell the story of the first men in tanks which I have only partly read, again difficult to put down, it's highly acclaimed in critical reviews. Both thoroughly recommended.

[Snapper]

I don't read military vehicle books per se, because I find them a bit boring. I prefer histories and accounts of peoples' lives; though as Tony illustrates in the review section, this doesn't automatically mean all are good books.

 

Jack has got a wad of book reviews to upload and the thing that worries me is the lack of "bad" books I've seen lately, because they are out there and I suppose I have chosen "wisely" as the old knight advised Indy. I am as much concerned with the boring as the innacurate and haven't found anything that helps me nod off lately. I'm just chunking through a big history of the Australian war in Vietnam which gives so much interesting and vivid information as well as making interesting judgements on all the associated ingredients of that terrible conflict (was there a good one?). I suppose the issue is whether any of you lads would get a book on the basis of a review on HMVF, I hope so. Our reviews are genuine consumer reports not advertorials (print trade term) for publishers like you

sometimes see elsewhere.

 

Of course Tony is asking how the publishers can afford to print so many bad books. The market is discerning and very knowledgeable. The bargain bin fighter planes of the world type books you used to see in railway station book stalls are something of a rarity these days. Good. But I remember during Gulf War 1 when we sent someone up to Smiths to buy a pile of this very sort of book for us to get illustrations for The Sun. We used these books for a while until the pix agencies cottoned on and started copying handouts or doing their own snaps. Nowadays we have specialist picture agencies doing this sort of thing and The Sun even has a defence editor. The days when I would be asked to thumb through a Salamander guide to "tanks" to find a colour picture of an MT-LB are long over.

 

Books have moved on a pace since then, but it is still pretty much hit and miss. I only hope the thing I'm working on doesn't turn out a pile of shyte.

 

MB

[Degsy]

I guess as to how good we think a book is depends on how much we know on the subject already. For example Jack (by his own admission a "Virgin Soldier") has probably not read many books on Red ball, while others of us already have several to compare it to and will spot mistakes quickly (the whole "Cherbourg" thread for example). I know nothing about Antar trucks and would not be able to spot a fault in Pats book. We are all a lot less tolerant to mistakes in books.

 

I bought "Operation Cobra" in paperback a couple of years ago and it was so full of faults you wonder if the author was just making things up. Makes you very distrustful of what else he has written. Anyway, that book has gone to make room for others on the book shelf now.

 

It is a bit unfortunate that the only three books we have mentioned by name have the same author.

 

Tim (too)

Fair comment Tim but you don't need to be an expert to know the difference between a Bofors and a 90 mm AAgun. Things like this definitely put me off buying anything else by the same author and although he may be an expert on the Antar or the Jeep I feel that in the chase for enthusiasts money he is getting into subjects where his knowledge is limited to say the least and his research is sadly lacking.

[LeeEnfield]

Just had 2 books from the library, 'Beneath Flanders Fields' by Peter Barton, Peter Doyle, and Johan Vandewalle a brilliantly researched book about the tunnellers war, once started hard to put down.The other is 'Band of Brigands' by Christy Campbell the story of the first men in tanks which I have only partly read, again difficult to put down, it's highly acclaimed in critical reviews. Both thoroughly recommended.

 

 

 

Certainly in full agreement with Degsy, re 'Beneath Flanders Fields',.........an excellent and amazingly researched book,....., not read 'band of Brigands' yet,.......but do have 'The Landships Of Lincoln', by Richard pullen, to read once 'Flanders Fields', is finished.

 

I've also found the books written by Lyn MacDonald, very good;.......well the ones I've read, anyways,...' They Called It Passchendaele' and 'The Roses Of No Man's Land'.

 

Andy

[ford 369]

I think what is happening with military books is the same thing as happened a few years ago with classic car books basically the same information rewritten in a different order this was bought home to me a few years ago when I visited a journalist friend of mine only to find him surrounded by books about porshe speedsters he was using bits from each book to caption a series of photos he had been sent to produce a glossy coffee table type book when he freely admitted he knew next to nothing about the subject but it helped pay the bills

[Degsy]

In turn Andy I agree with you on the 2 Lyn Macdonald books.

[Great War truck]

"To the last man" by Lyn Macdonald was very good. I have Beneath Flanders Field in my reading pile.

 

On the subject of the Porche man (and i suppose Pat as well), if they have already produced a few books and have a relationship with a publisher then i presume that it is easier for them to get a contract for a new book as opposed to the complete unknown writer. That would not give them much motivation to do a really good book. The publisher thinks they sold X thousand books last year, lets give them a new contract and see how many more units they can shift. The worrying thing is the number of mistakes they make as bit by bit history becomes diluted by inaccuracies.

 

Tim (t00)

[Tony B]

I did start this because one book I've just revied, did not impress me at all. Jack has been quite happy with the review though, don't think the publisher will like it, and they seem to be putting a lot of publicity into the title. Reviewing for you lot is a challenge, as Snapper said Advertorails are put on dust sheets or in a magazine, and never do the writers have to answer to their audience. You lot all have at least as much general knowledge on the subjects as me, and your own speciallities, you also know where to find me.:sweat:Thanks to Jack for letting me do it, and if I do get roasted it will be by people who do know what they are talking about. :tup::

[Snapper]

These are all interesting points. I'd personally feel a fraud trying to write a book about something I knew nothing about. But then there are definitely loads like it. You can see the formulae in most of them and they are often nice enough, but they are bit like doughnuts without the jam.

 

Lyn MacDonald books are not universally popular amongst some of the more serious WW1 buffs because she is considered to have an agenda.

This may be so, but they are wonderful introductions to the Great War much the way Cornelius Ryan is to WW2. I was on the Somme this weekend and Lyn's prose filled my head as we cruised down the Albert to Bapaume road. I've been there several times and the magic she introduced never fades.

 

One thing that should be considered. Most people answering this thread are not "general" readers. You have deep knowledge and experience of MVs of mechanics and often of military life. Some experienced the conflicts these books are about. Who are these books actually written for? It's a starting point for the thread to continue...

[Degsy]

I've bought books that have been recommended on here and have been very pleased with the results, carry on Tony, tell it how it is, a lot of these books are quite expensive no one wants to pay perhaps up to £3O for what may just be a rehash of a number of previous books or just simply a poorly written and/or researched volume.

[Tony B]

Thank you Degsy , I'm touched :kissoncheek:Mind you, you proably know that. More comments for and against the reviews the better, it won't hurt for publishers take our opinions seriously.

[Snapper]

Agreed on all counts (Degsy and Tony).

 

MB

[Snapper]

Agreed on all counts (Degsy and Tony).

 

MB

[LeeEnfield]

These are all interesting points. I'd personally feel a fraud trying to write a book about something I knew nothing about. But then there are definitely loads like it. You can see the formulae in most of them and they are often nice enough, but they are bit like doughnuts without the jam.

 

Lyn MacDonald books are not universally popular amongst some of the more serious WW1 buffs because she is considered to have an agenda.

This may be so, but they are wonderful introductions to the Great War much the way Cornelius Ryan is to WW2. I was on the Somme this weekend and Lyn's prose filled my head as we cruised down the Albert to Bapaume road. I've been there several times and the magic she introduced never fades.

 

One thing that should be considered. Most people answering this thread are not "general" readers. You have deep knowledge and experience of MVs of mechanics and often of military life. Some experienced the conflicts these books are about. Who are these books actually written for? It's a starting point for the thread to continue...

 

 

 

Good point, re last paragraph,.........A book is all things to all people, Yes, it should be historically correct, Yes it should be factually correct,...the list could go on and on;.............One question, - how many people would actually BUY the result ??

In some ways TOO MUCH info, is as bad,- if not more than NOT ENOUGH info;...........OK, I'll try and qualify what I mean, here......

As a read, most folk do not want notes either at bottom of page, or end of chapter or (and my pet hate) end of book, to keep refering to via small no's;.......too much info, possibly,..........on the other hand, if reading to research the topic being covered, I'm thinking each piece of subject is going to be looked at in isolation before gaining the overview, so maybe's in the one tomb, there is not enough info.

 

If you can see what I'm trying to get at...........:sweat:

 

Andy