British ww2 colours

[Radek]

Hi,

can somebody help me with corect shade of british ww2 colours?

Thanks Radek

[woa2]

YES.

 

What part of WW2 and which conflict are you interested in? Colours did change with what vehicle, what manufacturer and what part of WW2.

[Radek]

Hi,

I would like british colours after the 1943, west Europe for Austin lorry and Jeeps.

Thanks Radek

 

 

 

YES.

 

What part of WW2 and which conflict are you interested in? Colours did change with what vehicle, what manufacturer and what part of WW2.

 

[LeeEnfield]

Radek.

 

Some info I've got, as follows,..............

 

From Army Council Instructions,(ACI)..........North west Europe;

under ACI 533, published 12 april 1944, " Olive drab will be adopted as the basic camouflage colour for all army equipments, in lieu of standard camouflage colour no.2 (brown)

 

This subject is not an easy one to answer,............look at period pic's and you'll see why. :-)

 

The ACI's even go so far as to try and quantify colour's,.........by publishing SCCnumbers; (SCC = Standard Camouflage Colour Numbers)

SCC 1 Brown

1a Very dark brown

2 Cup of coffee and milk

3 Cup of Tea

4 Cup of weak tea

5 Very light grey

6 Dark Green

6a VERY dark green

7 A useful warm green

8 Mid green (rather dangerous)

9 Light Green (very dangerous)

10 Useful Dull Red

11 Rusty Red

11a Bungalow tiles red

11b Sandy Pink

12 Clean Cold Grey

13 Dirty Grey

14 Black.

 

Of these 1,1a,2,6a,7,10,13 and 14 are the safest and most generally useful colours.

 

(what was meant by dangerous,............or safe, for that matter, :dunno:)

Hope the above is of some help. :whistle:

 

Will look further, soon.

 

All the best,

Andy

 

 

[Radek]

Hi Andy,

it is fine, :-) but this is old numbering of colours. I would like paint my cars. I need present numbers of colours. :-D

Thanks Radek

 

 

 

 

 

Radek.

 

Some info I've got, as follows,..............

 

From Army Council Instructions,(ACI)..........North west Europe;

under ACI 533, published 12 april 1944, " Olive drab will be adopted as the basic camouflage colour for all army equipments, in lieu of standard camouflage colour no.2 (brown)

 

This subject is not an easy one to answer,............look at period pic's and you'll see why. :-)

 

The ACI's even go so far as to try and quantify colour's,.........by publishing SCCnumbers; (SCC = Standard Camouflage Colour Numbers)

SCC 1 Brown

1a Very dark brown

2 Cup of coffee and milk

3 Cup of Tea

4 Cup of weak tea

5 Very light grey

6 Dark Green

6a VERY dark green

7 A useful warm green

8 Mid green (rather dangerous)

9 Light Green (very dangerous)

10 Useful Dull Red

11 Rusty Red

11a Bungalow tiles red

11b Sandy Pink

12 Clean Cold Grey

13 Dirty Grey

14 Black.

 

Of these 1,1a,2,6a,7,10,13 and 14 are the safest and most generally useful colours.

 

(what was meant by dangerous,............or safe, for that matter, :dunno:)

Hope the above is of some help. :whistle:

 

Will look further, soon.

 

All the best,

Andy

 

 

 

[LeeEnfield]

Hi Radek;

 

Re modern numbers for paint, I've no idea. Might be worth contacting Clive,(on here) he may have some details on what the colours became, no's wise,....although, post war it seems gloss green was used far more as base colour.

 

OR, and its worth a go,..........contact one/all of the below; OK they're in the buisness of providing paint, but may still be able to help you find/get made up locally, something suitable.

 

Frank Burbery paints.

(email) frank.burbery@tesco.net

 

R and R services.

http://www.rrservices.co.uk

 

Sorry I can't help much more;..............

 

(must admit I LIKE the idea of ordering paint 'the colour of weak tea, etc. :whistle:)

 

All the best,

 

Andy

 

[79x100]

The problem with the SCCs is that not all of them (SCC4 included) were vehicle camouflage colours. Some were intended for buildings, airfields and other constructions so a "cup of weak tea" (which is a pretty useless thing anyway !) wouldn't help here.

 

Whether you use SCC2 Brown or Olive Drab rather depends on the build date of the vehicle and whether you are assuming that it has been repainted at any time.

 

There are a number of UK suppliers who can match these colours but they defend their mixing schemes jealously. If you want to get a mix locally then I think that you'll need to find an undamaged area. Modern pigment scanners seem to be capable of working from much smaller areas than was previously the case.

[Stefano]

Hi,

I would like british colours after the 1943, west Europe for Austin lorry and Jeeps.

Thanks Radek

 

 

 

 

 

 

Radek,

 

The best you can do to get a good idea of what colours were used is to get hold of the "British Army Camouflage" books by Mike Starmer. (contact is mike_starmer@hotmail.com)

These come with colour chips that are right on the money from my (limited) experience of mucking about with bits of MV's.

However, it is also important to keep in mind the build date of the vehicle that you are painting, because a vehicle built in 1945 should only be painted S.C.C. 15, or if of American build, left in the original olive drab (with or without S.C.C. 14 disruptive), whereas a vehicle built in 1940 could theoretically be painted in the whole spectrum of camouflage colours used during the war. I say thoretically, because although Cat. A vehicles invariably kept up with the latest fashions, this was not neccessarily the case with vehicles lower down the pecking order, and disruptive patterns were less frequent.

Another invaluable book is "British Military Markings 1939 - 1945" by Peter Hodges and Michael D. Taylor.

 

All the Best,

 

Stefano

 

 

[Tony B]

Plus, paint manufactured under wartime conditions, storage, age state of the kit it was applied with, as long it was vaguely the right shade who cares? Western desert tanks in 1940 had originally be meant for Greece so were green. not a whole lot of use in the desert so repaint them. question was where do you get 10,000 gallons of sand coloured paint? the Answer produced by Jasper Maskelyynes' Magi gang was 'Spoilt Wooster Sauce and Camel dung. I kid you not. One thing they did do was a lot of work on paint and perspective, so vehicles had various shades of the same colour specifically to confuse the eye.

[woa2]

Hi,

I would like british colours after the 1943, west Europe for Austin lorry and Jeeps.

Thanks Radek

 

 

 

 

Jeeps would be painted standard US Olive Drab in America and just have unit markings added by the British. Some were camouflaged with Matt Black, but looking at photos, only a very few. Jeeps didn't last long in combat, so why spend time with a fancy paint scheme or changing the shade of green? Check with 'The Wartime Jeep in British Service' by Gavin Birch for details.

Austins were painted No.7 Green, I beleve. RR Services paint section made me up some in 2005, so will have the recipe.

[LeeEnfield]

The best you can do to get a good idea of what colours were used is to get hold of the "British Army Camouflage" books by Mike Starmer. (contact is mike_starmer@hotmail.com)

These come with colour chips that are right on the money from my (limited) experience of mucking about with bits of MV's.

 

Stefano,

Not heard of these books,..........care to do a review ??

Thats Ok to ask,is it Jack ??

 

All the best,

 

Andy

[79x100]

Stefano hasn't replied so I hope he won't mind me chipping in.

 

Hodges & Taylor published by Cannon is a wonderful reference book, particularly with regard to the range of Arm of Service insignia which it covers. It has however been out of print for some years now and if it appears is priced well above the £100 mark. Don't be tempted by the Original Almark edition of Peter Hodge's book. The subsequent Taylor addenda more than double it. The camouflage and colour information remains reliable but is a fairly minor part of the book and could be fairly easily copied.

 

I've been in touch with Mike Stamer regarding the matching of the Khaki Green No. 3 and Light Green No. 5 on my untouched 1939 BEF Norton and he has arrived at some interesting conclusions. His NW Europe book is currently out of print (or should I say "Out of paint") and is being revised in the light of his latest findings. It will be republished but he is currently working on a book on the Caunter Scheme.

 

I've had the privilige of watching Mike at work. Not only is he extremely systematic, he has a wonderful eye for colour and if you match to his colour chips, you won't be far wrong in my opinion.

 

 

 

 

[LeeEnfield]

Stefano hasn't replied so I hope he won't mind me chipping in.

 

Hodges & Taylor published by Cannon is a wonderful reference book, particularly with regard to the range of Arm of Service insignia which it covers. It has however been out of print for some years now and if it appears is priced well above the £100 mark. Don't be tempted by the Original Almark edition of Peter Hodge's book. The subsequent Taylor addenda more than double it. The camouflage and colour information remains reliable but is a fairly minor part of the book and could be fairly easily copied.

 

I've been in touch with Mike Stamer regarding the matching of the Khaki Green No. 3 and Light Green No. 5 on my untouched 1939 BEF Norton and he has arrived at some interesting conclusions. His NW Europe book is currently out of print (or should I say "Out of paint") and is being revised in the light of his latest findings. It will be republished but he is currently working on a book on the Caunter Scheme.

 

I've had the privilige of watching Mike at work. Not only is he extremely systematic, he has a wonderful eye for colour and if you match to his colour chips, you won't be far wrong in my opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:-) Cheers for the extra info,.......Stefano HAS done a review, though. - (in book reviews. ;-))

I've emailed Mike re books, esp NW europe.

 

All the best,

 

Andy

[79x100]

:oops: Yeah Andy, put it down to my conventional upbringing. I always start reading at the top of websites and can't understand people who begin at the back of a newspaper ! I spotted Stefano's review after I'd posted. :roll:

 

I wonder who owns the rights to the Hodges and Taylor book. It's one that could really do with re-publishing, preferably with improved photo reproduction. I'm sure it would be a gold mine for the publishers because it's highly sought after by modellers as well. +

 

Cheers,

 

Rich.

[Davie]

" spoilt wooster sauce and camel dung"?????

 

The Germans would have been able to smell them from miles away.

[Tony B]

The smell wore off the colour didn't. It is something you could just not make up. :dunno:

[abn deuce]

Given the climate they were in I m sure it baked right on and dried completely with no smell in a very short period of time ...seeing as it was 100 percent sunshine and 100 degree f plus or better everyday . And that the crews and soldiers were not smelling all that good either as they had few chances to bath as well ......just imagine what the inside of those tanks had to be like :shake: :schocked:

[Radek]

Hi,

I think here is direction how to make the shade of colours.

http://www.geocities.com/vk3cz/GSbody3.html

 

:-D

 

Radek