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Electric Conversions


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Has anyone here converted, or are thinking of converting, their MV to Electric power? I have heard of some Classic Car owners who have done it.

Just asking.

Robert

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18 hours ago, woa2 said:

Has anyone here converted, or are thinking of converting, their MV to Electric power? I have heard of some Classic Car owners who have done it.

Just asking.

Robert

Robert with the deepest of respect take a deep breath and go and sit in the shade old friend 

Best regards

Pete

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I can see your point!

 

But out of interest will it ever come to a point when we need electrification? The government is hell bent on getting rid of Petrol? It won't to be long before  the only option at the pumps is E50 (50% Ethanol!), hydrogen, or a charge of your battery!

Edited by LarryH57
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36 minutes ago, LarryH57 said:

I can see your point!

 

But out of interest will it ever come to a point when we need electrification? The government is hell bent on getting rid of Petrol? It won't to be long before  the only option at the pumps is E50 (50% Ethanol!), hydrogen, or a charge of your battery!

To be serious for a moment Robert raises an interesting point,  one despite my flippant response that is worthy of discussion.  It calls into focus  issues that form fundamental reasons for what I have spent my life doing, I hope people will engage with this discussion

I'll wait to see what others have to say first before I add my two penny worth I have some strongly held views on the matter.    LarryH57  has a point the tide is against us I  fear with the current political desire of Western Governments to be seen to be taking action.  

Pete

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Personally, I'd say if the choice was taking an classic off the road or converting it to electric.  I would choose electric.

Same for restoring a vehicle that would have gone to the scrapyard or become a donor.

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If I did it, I would want to leave the clutch and gearbox in place to maintain as much of the original driving experience as possible. Most MV's would loose much of their driving character with just a whine and brake pedal.

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Hi. 

I think (hope) we are a long way from this, reason I say this that the they have been exploring electric conversion for large trucks were the are using the entire engine compartment for a replace/swap battery pack.  The problem has been really poor range 500-600 kilometers on a charge.

My bet is that the pressure to get old cars off the road will come in the form of changing the gasoline to the point were it will not work with carburetors.  

My backup plan has been to convert to propane. 

Having said this, electric cars can be fun.  My brother started building solar and battery powered vehicles more than 25 years ago.  He built an electric hill climb racer that was an absolute hoot to drive.

Cheers Phil 

 

 

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When the time comes l would be inclined to go to the HYDROGEN  route saw this over forty years ago and l know great amount of research is going on  into it's use not only as a fuel for motor vehicles and use in the home a friend works for a company that has invested a huge amount into this

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Just a bit of research since my last post.

It seems that as long as we use oil for plastics and a vast amount of non-fuel substances, then due to the distillation process there will be diesel and petrol and gas as a waste product? Might this be available for Historic  & MVs.

Also as one commentator said online, I doubt you are going to see a farmer ploughing his fields in an electric tractor or a quarryman extracting 30 tons of rock in an electric dump truck or even a long distance articulated lorry drive from the North to Dover in an electric rig. 

Plus as yet nobody has worked out what to do with the old batteries!

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Converting a 'conventional' power train to electric is quite simple-ditch the engine, fit an electric motor to a bell housing adapter plate and bolt it to the existing gearbox. There's a series on tv called vintage voltage, and that's exactly what they do

BUT, it completely destroys the soul of the vehicle

 

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2 hours ago, wally dugan said:

When the time comes l would be inclined to go to the HYDROGEN  route saw this over forty years ago and l know great amount of research is going on  into it's use not only as a fuel for motor vehicles and use in the home a friend works for a company that has invested a huge amount into this

a few years back, a government site experimented with the safety implications of a combined, petrol/hydrogen roadside filling station, specifically a 'what if' scenario

the results were apparently so devastating that research was halted 

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Terryb 

With hydrogen we might see the return of 'petrol pump attendants' or rather whatever they will be called such as fuel replenishment establishment executives of FREE for short  - unlike the cost of hydrogen, which will still be subject to a carbon tax !

Incidentally, hydrogen technology to power vehicles has advanced somewhat in recent years, so it is unlikely that some old Miss Marple character will be squirting liquid hydrogen all over the forecourt not knowing how to stop! 

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as far back in time when man tried to power  machines there has been risk steam power boilers exploding  horse stampeding from the internal combustion engine noise  animals frightened  by the jet engine . But it never stopped the  human from improving these ideas. And as long as there is a need it will continue

 

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2 hours ago, super6 said:

This has been tried in the past, cannot remember where but think it was using long leads held up off the ground

Had they not heard of induction in those days?

 

See the source image

Edited by radiomike7
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2 hours ago, super6 said:

Which, gas envelope or overhead cables as per tram? A great choice of picture methinks

I think it was central London where trams were not permitted a catenary system, they used a Scalextric type groove and a plough pick up.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Looks like everyone who had a view on this topic has contributed.  So as it’s raining here in the Wild West today I have a few spare minutes to add my personal thoughts to Robert’s original question,  it also delays the evil moment when I have to go and box in some pipes in the utility.

Firstly, I have never heard of anyone converting their MV to electric propulsion, if you have or you are that person, it would be interesting to hear from you.  I suspect there currently would be engineering difficulties for anything over 15cwt size.

As to my own view in short, I would be very much opposed to the concept for reasons I’ll set out below.

Looking at the issue in terms of the facts, the argument based on ecological grounds, does not stand up to integration when considered in terms of mass balance.

 The volume of CO2 that Classic, Vintage and Veteran vehicles add to the world’s total mass balance is tiny by virtue of the fact of the limited numbers of vehicles compared to other forms of transport, industry producers and natural events. An important factor is the mileage travelled, ie, the time the machine is actually emitting CO2 is minuscule compared to other forms of mass transport.  I would guess that most MV owners do less than 2000 miles a year and many will do considerably less.

Using a numbers based approach it may be shown therefore that we are not part of the problem.  However the ethical argument would suggest that as other forms of transport move to net zero (an interesting concept that I find full of hidden caveats and glaring omissions) then the percentage contribution from our vehicles becomes increasingly significant.  But in terms of mass balance our vehicles will still only add a tiny amount.   We have all been subjected over last 18 months to a barrage of statistical data that has required careful interrogation to determine the true meaning and context of the numbers presented, the key word here is context.

Moving now to the conceptual and philosophical argument surrounding electrification of our vehicles I need to put my cards squarely on the table. I first started driving at the age of 4 in a field sitting on my Fathers lap in his split screen Morris Minor woody estate.  From there I graduated to motor bikes and scrap cars driven around a field at the back of the village garage.  Then my first Ford GPW  at the  age of 16 and as soon as I got my licence for the road at 17 a progression of cars, MV’s and a passing interest in Vintage Hot Rods and steam engines and indeed all things related to the internal combustion engine, I will be 64 this year.

 All this adds up to the fact that I could be regarded as the classic ‘petrol head’ and something that I refuse to be made to feel ashamed off.

Collecting and restoring WW2 Military Vehicles has always been for me about recreating a time machine.  That within the confines of the road traffic act is as near to the original vehicle as possible in terms of it’s appearance, noise, smell and sensation when moving.  It’s the combination of all those things that bring the vehicle to life and in some small way provide a link to both the period and men who operated them.

To electrify a WW2 MV would be a travesty of all things that the vehicle stood for and represented to me. The nearest comparison that I can come up with is that of installing an internal combustion engine inside a steam locomotive and using the argument that “well at least it still moves” to justify doing so.  The whole essence and being of the machine would change out of all recognition and it would become a travesty of it’s former self, as it would be for our vehicles. 

So what is to become of me an old curmudgeonly petrol head  swimming against the rising tide of popular political opinion focused towards the demise of the internal combustion engine and the desire to move to perceived clean electric power?.  Wally Dugan mentioned Hydrogen power in his first post in this thread if it comes to the crunch when it becomes commercially and politically un-viable for producers to provide fossil fuels for our vehicles then this would be a reluctant option.   I believe that at least it would preserve the essence of the original propulsion system with the engine and ancillary drive train intact.   Would I embrace it with open arms?…….. No I would not…… but it may be the lesser of evils in terms of options and may prevent me from having to drive a Hoover.

Pete

Edited by Pete Ashby
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16 minutes ago, Pete Ashby said:

To electrify a WW2 MV would be a travesty of all things that the vehicle stood for and represented to me. The nearest comparison that I can come up with is that of installing an internal combustion engine inside a steam locomotive and using the argument that “well at least it still moves” to justify doing so.  The whole essence and being of the machine would change out of all recognition and it would become a travesty of it’s former self, as it would be for our vehicles. 

Pete

Rather like this Pete? Or perhaps a step backwards....

 

unnamed.jpg

Steam Explorer.jpg

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On this subject, there is no forum for emotions or reasoned argument , other than if you were to get yourself elected to Parliament there is some possibility , the greasy pole to be a Minister  then PM - then you are the democracy dictator.

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