Petrol starvation

[oats and barley]

Am I the only one concerned with the government wanting to bring back the end date of producing petrol and diesel cars from 2030 to 2025,surely this will affect petrol production and availability. I only have a command car at the moment, but was looking to buy another big petrol vehicle , although not as bad as Chris Evans  Ferrari collection. whats a 30k Jeep worth with no petrol to put in it ? 

[Rootes75]

I wonder if for certain categories of vehicles such as Historic they may still produce or maybe use a ration type system?

[REME 245]

Petrol will always be available at a price for historic vehicles  for specific purposes but the hobby will turn more and more into a rich mans hobby because of the cost.

There will also be a transition period when petrol remains freely available for those cars still on the road  so if you can afford it you probably don't have to worry for 15-20 years.

 

[CMP-Phil]

Propane conversion, many old petrol engines are likely candidate's for conversion to Propane. 

 

Cheers Phil  

[diesel1]

Also, diesel will be around for a long time yet due to agricultural and construction, will be a long time before they can make a agricultural tractor run on electric for 12 hrs straight!

[REME 245]

Diesel will still required for ships but its supply will be restricted at some time in the future.   Between this and the new tire regulations if enforced, more modern MV's will be a lot less desrible in the future.

Edited November 14, 2020 by REME 245

[Pzkpfw-e]

2030, from 2035.

Assuming the green scam doesn't blow up in their faces soon, or we get a viable party to vote for, who'll overturn it.

[ruxy]

4 hours ago, CMP-Phil said:

Propane conversion, many old petrol engines are likely candidate's for conversion to Propane. 

 

Cheers Phil  

15 years ago - there were quite a few diesel engine (esp. Transit) conversions to Propane  'fumigation'  , you don't hear of it now , well I haven't  .

[oats and barley]

A friend had a factory LPG transit it was all right he just got fed up finding places to refuel. its all been done before, councils tried it with dust carts .I knew a waste company were looking at buying Mercedes lorries running a 50/50 diesel/LPG mix , it never happened . In the 70s A Dutch firm Landi Hartog started fitting lpg kits in the UK fizzled out, but all is not lost Mercedes have increased the range of their 50k plus vat electric sprinter from 50 to 100 miles 

[Tony B]

I now have a V8 Discovery 2 on LPG. At 69.9 p a litre .Practically the maitince is no diffrent to a straight petrol. Performance is such that the only way I know I'm on gas is by the dash light.  Fuel Consumption , I haven't really been able to work it out. Problems, NGK LPG plugs , at £18 each! Fortuntley will run on the normal ones.  Finding some where to fuel is the pain. The reason I bought mine is it was cheap and I have a local LPG station. There seems to be no difinitive info on where you can get Autogas in UK. Problem with Disiel is that the LPG runs 30% of the power all the time. Loose LPG loose power, that's what the experts tell me.

[ruxy]

3 hours ago, Tony B said:

I now have a V8 Discovery 2 on LPG. At 69.9 p a litre .Practically the maitince is no diffrent to a straight petrol. Performance is such that the only way I know I'm on gas is by the dash light.  Fuel Consumption , I haven't really been able to work it out. Problems, NGK LPG plugs , at £18 each! Fortuntley will run on the normal ones.  Finding some where to fuel is the pain. The reason I bought mine is it was cheap and I have a local LPG station. There seems to be no difinitive info on where you can get Autogas in UK. Problem with Disiel is that the LPG runs 30% of the power all the time. Loose LPG loose power, that's what the experts tell me.

Around  1998 to Y2K  both Ford & Vauxhall were selling factory "dual-fuel" & diesel engine models at exactly the same £ as a straight petrol of comparable power.  The future of forecourt LPG was looking good , many cars were retro-fitted with gas kits,   then a few "specialists"  formed a 'trade-association' to lobby Parliament for registration for  Gas-Safe as if they were Corgi.   Then the conversion business seemed to die a death.  DIY kits also seemed to go from the marketplace, by then there were some good ones of Italian manufacture and reasonable £.

It seems to me that in the coming 10 year interim - due to demand, that there will be a great increase in Autogas forecourt supply (in preparation).    Five years ago , I went off kero for central heating on to a gas main that was laid at the other side of the road  15 years earlier under British Gas (under BG  I was offered totally free £ instalation up to the meter - I should have taken it up).  For years I had considered a Propane bulk tank for heating but it was £ very costly to run using it.  I know of people who are fueling up with Autogas from their bulk tank , without the heating side - that would be £ more costly than a forecourt.

[Citroman]

In the 50s and 60s there were already  us trucks petrol engined trucks with LPG fitted!

 

Edited November 15, 2020 by Citroman

[oats and barley]

Many years ago at a show at Bleadon Somerset,I saw a guy running his Explorer from the big orange Calor canister strapped to the side step. around the same period a friend turned up one day on a moped running on some screen wash pipe and a gas lighter refill taped to the handlebars. Also there were the two plumbers in the Thames van who ran out of petrol, took the gun off the hose on their gas bottle, lifted the engine cover stuck the pipe in the carb, some adjustment on the bottle and off they went. Now, back to the original post, are we all going to be left with a load of depreciating museum exhibits ?

[ruxy]

26 minutes ago, oats and barley said:

Many years ago at a show at Bleadon Somerset,I saw a guy running his Explorer from the big orange Calor canister strapped to the side step. around the same period a friend turned up one day on a moped running on some screen wash pipe and a gas lighter refill taped to the handlebars. Also there were the two plumbers in the Thames van who ran out of petrol, took the gun off the hose on their gas bottle, lifted the engine cover stuck the pipe in the carb, some adjustment on the bottle and off they went. Now, back to the original post, are we all going to be left with a load of depreciating museum exhibits ?

Well - the gov. is aware of the 'game-changer'  for land based & North Sea wind turbines, this is the football pitch sized storage batteries.  Also there is a not so % efficient "compressed air" (from the atmosphere) stored at low temperature.  There is a prototype about to be built ,  they release the air to drive turbo-alternators on grid demand & blow the bottles up again using electric main drivers for the compressors).  People are already buying E cars in larger quantity this year, son 2 is about to give up his 4x4 BMW for a Tesla.  I think they will have more trouble selling the bread-N-butter  E cars & hybrids.   The latest IMHO is just Boris bullying the population to drop fossil fuel & bio & they will obey to political pressure.   Another  BIG  headline & it will take minds of BREXIT  & Corona-19  ..

 

[oats and barley]

Well i am not going to covert my command car to gas electric hydrogen or wood alcohol, it will remain as it left the factory. I am applying for planning permission to extend the dining room and living area fitting bi-fold doors . I will be draining all the fluids in the command car it will look great in the corner .The grand kids can play on it and the boot/trunk will make a great drop down bar.

[Pzkpfw-e]

Maybe, if the loonies do manage to completely take over the asylum and the ban goes ahead (Note hybrids still permissable to be sold new, until 2035, by 2055, we might see petrol going, diesel much later, as the range for HGVs on batteries won't be enough.

Time to plan a move to South Africa? A teensie 0.009% of their vehicles are milk floats.

[oats and barley]

Got up to read Mail on line really cheered me up "Driving will be come a privilege for the wealthy "he is banning sales of petrol, diesel and hybrids in 9 years time. Who in their right mind is going to buy a new petrol car a year or so before the ban with the uncertainty of a future petrol supply 

[ruxy]

A  growth area seems to be Biomass / CHP or CCHP  power stations where the bulk of the fuel is swathed willow , brash & woodchip/wood pellet (most shipped from Canada) along with any combustible $hit.    Burning tree-wood and even worse pelletized (heavy on power process) to facilitate bulk shipping - clean on the atmosphere  ??   they must have some scrubbing plant that will consume power.

Renewables - Wind farms are a blot on the countryside , however the large scale schemes presently going into the North Sea are quite something, a new island to be created off Doggar Bank for the hubs, storage batteries the size of football fields, the downside of course is that the electricity generated will go to the highest £ bidders who have the sub-sea cables to countries other than the UK, so scaling up is to no national advantage.

[oats and barley]

So what is a nice lightweight worth { not a Dutch diesel } with no petrol to put in it?

[radiomike7]

I very much doubt there will be a problem with petrol in our lifetime, as long as there is a market for Kerosene (planes and central heating), Diesel (trucks and plant), Fuel oil (ships), Bitumen (various) it will all come from the partial distillation of crude oil and the last liquid product is petrol.

[ruxy]

3 hours ago, oats and barley said:

So what is a nice lightweight worth { not a Dutch diesel } with no petrol to put in it?

I don't know ,  probably if the Gov. plans run their course then petrol pumps will start to get scarce in approx.  15 years  ?

Tonight's BBC news was all about converting 750,000 homes p.a. off mains gas to  'GROUND Source'  heat pumps - £15,000 cost per home.  Approx. 12 years ago a relation had fitted a 'AIR Source' heat pump fitted along with keeping a spare unit in garage that another person had ripped out.  This relation is a instrument mechanic - so no fool ,  signed up to some subsidised scheme.   Cold weather , you run them all the time, dissatisfied think you can run them like gas/kero.     All I can say is the unit is BIG in the back yard , the fan is very noisy , if I were a neighbour I would be complaining to the council,  I don't know the driver wattage , meaning to check the plate - must be in excess of  1 hp  guestimate by size & fan dia. (must be 24")   ,  relation does agree his electrical bills are £  steeper , but a bit reluctant to tell..   GROUND sourse pump motor will have to be powered.     I have a small river passing thro. garden does not freeze over at -10C  ,  I have pondered a pumped heat exchanger recovery unit  DIY from my scrap-heap ,  experimental for large  shed/garage central heating ,  of course I would have a waterwheel powering the  genny to drive the DC pump motor ...

[utt61]

I wonder how long it will be before all the ground source heat pumps become a problem, since if the heat is taken out of the ground, the ground must get cooler.

Ultimately until there is an acceptance that the population has become unsustainably large for the planet and moderation becomes the order of the day, I can't see any real improvement happening. I am relieved that I will (probably) be just a forgotten memory by the time it comes to a head.

[teletech]

I'm rather surprised nobody really mentioned alcohol to any great degree.  Old military vehicles are actually well suited to run pure alcohol, just re-jet your carburetor, replace a few seals, and off you go.  You take about a 15% loss on power but you get to keep driving.  As for diesel engines, Mr Diesel envisioned peanut oil from the farm being the main fuel.  It's not hard to cook biodiesel at home in quantities sufficient to take one's MV out for the occasional weekend jaunt.  If you were trying to fire up your Chieftain, well you already have trouble unless your pockets are quite deep.