Balham tube disaster

[Great War truck]

I have just seen the new film Atonement, which was ok, but depressing. I did enjoy the Dunkirk scenes in particular, which i thought were very well done.

 

At the end of the film they talked about the Balham tube disaster. Not knowing anything about this i looked it up on the web.

 

http://www.worldwar2exraf.co.uk/Online%20Museum/Museum%20Docs/airraidshelterspage9.htm

 

Basically, a bomb blew a big hole in the ground above the station which a bus the crashed into fracturing the water main. The water flowed down into the station drowning and causing to be buried in rubble 68 people. Balham is on the lowest part of the line, so the water could not escape.

 

I knew nothing about this disaster at all. It appears that the British Government didn't broadcast the magnitude of the disaster as it was a concern that people would no longer shelter in the stations.

 

Well there we go. A factual incident contained in a war film that i knew nothing about. I have learned one thing today, so the day has not been wasted.

 

Tim (too)

 

[Tony B]

Do you know you've answered a lifetime question. My Father was Welsh, born late 1899. He went down the mines at 14 but was injured and came up to the surface training as a mine carpenter. During WW2 he and mum lived in London, an old house in Ladbroke Grove. All mine carpenters were part of the mine rescue teams. During the blitz he was part of the Civil defence, being mine trained he was part of heavy squad that tunneled for survivors. He would never talk about it, when I petered once mum took me aside and told me stop asking because he was still upset about something that happened at a station. I must have been 8 or 10. She told me a lot of people were under a burning station and the couldn't be got out, the people up top could hear the water running in and the screaming, apparently all the CD and firemen where in tears. I've never really thought about it till now.

[LeeEnfield]

Doesn't this disaster have a memorial, with names of those killed erected in the area; ?? I'm sure I saw something on the TV quite a while ago, on this event.

[Tony B]

Lee, that one may be the Bethnal Green incident. People were crowding in down the stairs and someone slipped causing a panic and crush. About 170 were killed.

[LeeEnfield]

Lee, that one may be the Bethnal Green incident. People were crowding in down the stairs and someone slipped causing a panic and crush. About 170 were killed.

 

 

 

That rings bells, Thanks Tony.

[Grasshopper]

There is a famous picture of a double deck bus that fell down the bomb hole in balham high road. I used to shop in that part of Balham, and worked out where it was.

 

A plaque to commemorate the disaster was erected in the station a few years ago.

[Mark]

This one is Balham

 

 

[Simon Daymond]

makes you think doesn't it? That's a damn big hole.

[Grasshopper]

I think its outside where Sainsburys is now.

[sean101ryan]

I must have surveyed the drains at that station a dozen or more times and never noticed the plaque or whether parts of the station looked newer. I knew about the disaster, but was always desperate to get the job done and get back to bed :whistle:.

 

During the war a number of deep shelters were built beneath the Northern Line and Central Line with the idea of linking them as an express tube after. Not many were actually used for the purpose and most of them are now used for secure document storage, I've been in the one under Clapham North.

[79x100]

The blitz of 1940 should be compulsory study for any of the revisionists who consider that Bomber Command's raids on Germany were disproportionate

[LeeEnfield]

The blitz of 1940 should be compulsory study for any of the revisionists who consider that Bomber Command's raids on Germany were disproportionate

 

 

 

 

Hear,hear,............couldn't agree more.

[Tony B]

Something that you should do when studying history is always try to view it with the social and political conventions at the time. Try to get scource documents or books written at or near the time. Like Winter Warriors and Sniper One. Books written by those who were there, with no axe to grind, just hey this is what happned and this is what I felt. They are the the most accurate histories your's going to get.

[woa2]

I must have surveyed the drains at that station a dozen or more times and never noticed the plaque or whether parts of the station looked newer. I knew about the disaster, but was always desperate to get the job done and get back to bed :whistle:.

 

During the war a number of deep shelters were built beneath the Northern Line and Central Line with the idea of linking them as an express tube after. Not many were actually used for the purpose and most of them are now used for secure document storage, I've been in the one under Clapham North.

 

I do know that the Central line extension from, I beleive, Liverpool Street Eastwards was built pre-War but not opened until Post-War and it was used as an air-raid selter in Wartime.

[sean101ryan]

It was actually used as an underground factory by Plessey I think. There is a very good book on 'secret' underground London that covers the subject well.

 

There was also a planned extension of the Northern line from Edgware to Elstree, partly built and the depot at Aldenham used for aircraft production during the war. All since demolished.

[Tony B]

And we all thought you spent the time underground working. :-D Write a book mate, you can get a tax breack can't you?

[Tony B]

makes you think doesn't it? That's a damn big hole.

 

That bus is about 29 foot long, 7 foot 6 inch wide and about 13 foot high.yes a big'ole.

[No Signals]

The blitz of 1940 should be compulsory study for any of the revisionists who consider that Bomber Command's raids on Germany were disproportionate

 

Yes, even more so when you consider other theatres.. More tonnage of bombs dropped on Malta in just one week than dropped in total on London during the whole of the blitz. Malta blitz went on for about 3 months I think, and has the dubious honour of being the most bombed place on earth in terms of tonnage received. Some of the so-called 'atrocity' targets in Germany got off lightly in comparison. Not that I wish it on them either.

[Tony B]

Gentlemen, not making excuses for anyone. On the 12th June 1940 the War cabinet in London were presented with a paper by Chief of the Imperial General Staff stating that the channel island's were of no strategic value and should be demilitarised. Vacillation ensued by the cabinet. Finally on the on the 15th June 1940, the policy was decided that the RAF would use the Island's whilst they could support operations in France. Following that, 'thereafter a policy of Demilitarization will rule'.

 

Futher vacillation occurred, until finally the Bailiffs (head of the civil administration of the Islands) received message from king George, stating formally the demilitarisation. The home Secretary at the time,did everything possible to make sure the decision was kept secret outside the island's, so as not to give succour to the enemy.on 28th June 1940 a member of Parliament put down a question concerning demilitarization and evacuation, he was asked to withdraw it on the grounds of national security, the home secretary stating that 'Pains' had been taken to keep the matter secret. On the same day the German's carried out air raids on the undefended Islands, killing 12 in Jersey and wounding more. It was only on the 29th July 1940, the following morning that the British Government released a statement saying the Germans had been informed of demilitarisation. The final bit of this farce is that on the 30th June 1940 the US Ambassador Joseph P Kennedy was asked to transmit ;as soon as possible' a message to the German government stating the demilitarisation and adding that a public announcement had been made of June 28th. So who are the villians?

[Great War truck]

Do you know you've answered a lifetime question. My Father was Welsh, born late 1899. He went down the mines at 14 but was injured and came up to the surface training as a mine carpenter. During WW2 he and mum lived in London, an old house in Ladbroke Grove. All mine carpenters were part of the mine rescue teams. During the blitz he was part of the Civil defence, being mine trained he was part of heavy squad that tunneled for survivors. He would never talk about it, when I petered once mum took me aside and told me stop asking because he was still upset about something that happened at a station. I must have been 8 or 10. She told me a lot of people were under a burning station and the couldn't be got out, the people up top could hear the water running in and the screaming, apparently all the CD and firemen where in tears. I've never really thought about it till now.

 

 

Interesting to hear that and i am pleased that you know more about him and his experiences. My Uncle was a fireman in the Blitz. I know only one story about his experiences and of course it is too late to ask him anymore. But anyway, he borrowed a fire engine to pick up his girl friend (a nurse and also my Aunt) and take her on a picnic. At the end of their trist, he found that the fire engine had sunk in the mud in the field where they had stopped. Luckily, he managed to wave down a passing truck with German POW's being taken under guard to a camp. Their guards offered the services of the Germans to push out the fire engine from the mud, which they then did. I can imagine that there would have been all kinds of trouble if he had been found out.

 

Tim (too)

[Tony B]

Great story Tim, the ones that stayed behind did there bit to. I love talking to the vetrans and people who lived through the times, they often tell the most outrageous stories of things they got upto. I talked to one old guy and asked him did he mind if he got caught, he just laughed.

[galdriver]

Balham was the one where the bomb hit opposite Woolworths and a bus went down the hole. About 60 drowned I believe. Bethnal Green was where new anti-aircraft guns were practising in the park next door, people panicked not knowing what the noise was, ran down the shelter (the unfinished Bethnal Green Tube station)a lady at the bottom carrying a baby fell and the rest fell on top of her. My Gt.Nan survived the Balham disaster only to get killed in the Bethnal Green one a 2.5 years later! Think it's true what they say about 'your number being up' !!

 

Anyone interested in the Bethnal Green one and how they're doing with the memorial (still not built!) go to www.stairwaytoheavenmemorial.org

[Lord Burley]

Lots of disaters during the war.A lot were never mentioned as it would have had a terrible effect on moral.

 

Here is another disaster more horrendous than the Balham one,in an earlier thread i posted.

 

 

http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?t=9924

[andreadavide]

Yes, even more so when you consider other theatres.. More tonnage of bombs dropped on Malta in just one week than dropped in total on London during the whole of the blitz. Malta blitz went on for about 3 months I think, and has the dubious honour of being the most bombed place on earth in terms of tonnage received. Some of the so-called 'atrocity' targets in Germany got off lightly in comparison. Not that I wish it on them either.

 

Alas, most of the Malta bombings were made by us Italians...

Andrea

[Snapper]

A former colleague of mine is involved in the campaign to build a proper memorial to the people at Bethnal Green. He grandmother and mother were involved in the tragedy though her mother survived. A child they were caring for did not. I keep promising Sandra I will post up more about the campaign here and haven't done it due to so much else on my plate. The fund has just been awarded £100,000 by the local authority, who it must be presumed are mindful of a debt owed as demographics change the area forever.

 

There was a terrible disaster of a similar nature at Stoke Newington in North London where close on 200 people died when a shelter was hit and the gas and water mains fractured. My mother had been turned away from the shelter, which was full, just before it happened.

 

I am working on an interview with a historian who gives Blitz walks around the City of London and fringes of. Perhaps we can get a team up to go on one?

 

MB