MatchFuzee Posted April 10, 2017 Author Share Posted April 10, 2017 Information and videos are now online:- http://www.mvt.org.uk/copy-of-code-of-conduct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Ashby Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 Information and videos are now online:- http://www.mvt.org.uk/copy-of-code-of-conduct Clear and concise presentation, but it's important to listen to each individual presentation. As an MVCG/MVT member for over 40 years my first reaction upon reading about the proposal in Windscreen was why do we need this now after all this time?. Having listened to the presentations I now feel I have sufficient information to be able to make an informed decision when balloted. It is a sad fact that the world of litigation has moved on as the number of spam mails and unwanted phone calls about making claims for accidents I've never had bear witness on an almost daily basis. Do I want to pay more money on my sub .....No..... do I think it is necessary......Yes. Having listened to the the case put forward in the video's like it or not this is the world we now inhabit. The alternative is keep your vehicle and or display locked away and let no one see them. I think the MVT CoM should be applauded for raising the issue and demonstrating a pro active response to a problem that effects the membership, at the end of the day isn't that what the membership would expect from it's CoM. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEMIMA Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 Fully agree with Pete's words - all the piece of mind fro only £10 - no brainer - and despite what many believe - it is needed and required - don't let ignorance or lack of knowledge be the reason your facing a massive lawsuit when anything goes wrong and you then find the cover you thought you had - isn't worth the paper its written on ! Thank you to the MVT for looking after its membership - it would have been so easy for them to say " Hey guys - you need this - off you go and try and source some for yourself" - Instead they have devoted a lot of time and effort looking into this and trying to broker the best deal for the members - and in return all they have faced is a lot of negativity and personal attacks online - I too applaud them and thank them for all their efforts to date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Ashby Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 (edited) An additional thought, it would perhaps be useful to hear how other vehicle focused clubs and organisations approach the issue of public liability so that a comparison can be made regarding value for money and extent and degree of cover. One body that comes to mind are the vintage traction engine fraternity, is it the the NTC that most belong to? they have not dissimilar issues to MV's with big heavy kit and in their particular case added to slips trips and falls the added danger of burns and potential explosions, how do they cover their members and at what cost I wonder ? Pete Edited April 11, 2017 by Pete Ashby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon king Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 Peace of mind for not much more than the cost of a packet of cigarettes seems a no brainer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8_10 Brass Cleaner Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 An additional thought, it would perhaps be useful to hear how other vehicle focused clubs and organisations approach the issue of public liability so that a comparison can be made regarding value for money and extent and degree of cover. One body that comes to mind are the vintage traction engine fraternity, is it the the NTC that most belong to? they have not dissimilar issues to MV's with big heavy kit and in their particular case added to slips trips and falls the added danger of burns and potential explosions, how do they cover their members and at what cost I wonder ? Pete Own personal policies. From memory my combined RTA and PL is a flat £34 per annum. With accidental damage a flat rate per £1k insured. Again from memory about a fiver per 1k. Most of us are well underinsured on accidental damage simply because of the value. That said they are not in the slightest bit stealable as a single lump. The good news for me is if I set something on fire with a spark I'm covered. I have to say that I also run vintage cars. The day I have to pay for PL to attend a show with them is the day Ill stop taking them to shows. I often have modern cars parked on show fields. No PL on them either. What is the difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
79x100 Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 I'm abroad so I have no axe to grind and nothing to gain here but further to 8_10's comments, I'm puzzled by what extra liabilities are incurred when one parks a vehicle at a 'show'...Is it because the organisers are attempting to attach liabilities under contract which would not otherwise apply ? If I take part in a parade and then park my vehicle in a place accessible to the public, am I taking on liabilities which would not apply if I drove individually and parked in Sainsbury's car park ? I can see no terms in a motor policy which include one and exclude the other....or are all motorists badly insured ? If we help a small child or attractive young lady onto a vehicle, is this any different from any other passenger, whether intending to ride or not ? Should we have a special insurance before allowing next door's kids to climb on the thing ? Are we covered if an ageing veteran, overcome by nostalgia and emotion, puts his hand on a hot exhaust pipe ? I'm not intending to rock the boat and I have little knowledge of the UK show scene but I really am struggling to understand what suddenly changes with a 'show' or event that does not also apply each time we take out a historic vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
militant-nick Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 An additional thought, it would perhaps be useful to hear how other vehicle focused clubs and organisations approach the issue of public liability so that a comparison can be made regarding value for money and extent and degree of cover. One body that comes to mind are the vintage traction engine fraternity, is it the the NTC that most belong to? they have not dissimilar issues to MV's with big heavy kit and in their particular case added to slips trips and falls the added danger of burns and potential explosions, how do they cover their members and at what cost I wonder ? Pete http://www.ntet.co.uk/insuranceservices/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diana and Jackie Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/can-do-guide-for-organisers-of-voluntary-events/the-can-do-guide-to-organising-and-running-voluntary-and-community-events#what_is_public Section 6. Diana I'm abroad so I have no axe to grind and nothing to gain here but further to 8_10's comments, I'm puzzled by what extra liabilities are incurred when one parks a vehicle at a 'show'...Is it because the organisers are attempting to attach liabilities under contract which would not otherwise apply ? If I take part in a parade and then park my vehicle in a place accessible to the public, am I taking on liabilities which would not apply if I drove individually and parked in Sainsbury's car park ? I can see no terms in a motor policy which include one and exclude the other....or are all motorists badly insured ? If we help a small child or attractive young lady onto a vehicle, is this any different from any other passenger, whether intending to ride or not ? Should we have a special insurance before allowing next door's kids to climb on the thing ? Are we covered if an ageing veteran, overcome by nostalgia and emotion, puts his hand on a hot exhaust pipe ? I'm not intending to rock the boat and I have little knowledge of the UK show scene but I really am struggling to understand what suddenly changes with a 'show' or event that does not also apply each time we take out a historic vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
79x100 Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/can-do-guide-for-organisers-of-voluntary-events/the-can-do-guide-to-organising-and-running-voluntary-and-community-events#what_is_public Section 6. Diana I understand that, but it is intended for organisers of an event. If I pay for entry then I'm a customer, whether I'm displaying or not. Is there some magic point where one takes on additional liabilities ? I regularly visit autojumbles. Am I resaonably well insured if I park a vehicle in the car park whether it is modern or an old one ? If I let someone sit on it, am I sudenly uninsured ? If I place the vehicle inside the grounds as part of a display, are my liabilities affected by whether I pay for entry, am given a free ticket or even a small payment to cover expenses ? It doesn't really concern me whether a club decides to offer extra cover to members, I'm more bothered by whether my use of a historic vehicle can somehow make me liable in addition to what would attach to any member of the public parking a vehicle in any location where it might attract attention from members of the public. In all honesty, the only reason that I can think of is that by agreeing to the terms and conditions imposed by show organisers we are assuming additional contractual liabilities which may not be insured except where required by the RTA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diana and Jackie Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 I understand that, but it is intended for organisers of an event.. I fully understand that, and I am not arguing that for £10 PLI by the MVT isn't good value for money, more that some show organisers are either avoiding their responsibilities or trying to mitigate their responsibilities. The MVT appears to have full PLI for events it organises so why don't others? At Xmas I was going to attend the local Father Xmas parade until the local council insisted to see my driving licence, insurance and even a risk assessment, the outcome was I told them to stick it. I was told yesterday of an event that was held yearly - a driving skills test - that had been cancelled because of insurance liability, and we're not talking racing cars here but classic cars driving around cones. The whole thing is becoming nonsense to the point where nothing takes place lest someone gets sued and no-one benefits. Diana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 These days anybody who engages in any activity that is slightly different is at risk. For example for some years I had the only permit that was issued by a council for metal detecting on one of "their" beaches. I was required to have PLI in case someone tripped over a hole that I had dug. Yet like most detectorists, I fill in any hole I make, yet there were always plenty of holes left by children who had been making sand castles, let alone the bait diggers who would leave holes resembling half dug graves. When I asked if a permit & PLI was required for the bait diggers, I was told they had been doing it probably for thousands of years & apparently without incident! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEMIMA Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 With regards why is an old vehicle more of a risk than a modern one.....If I park up my 43 dodge weapons carrier and im within touching distance - then im covered under my motor vehicle insurance policy....but the moment I walk away - walk to my trailer to get some kit out / go and chat to my camping neighbour, the moment I leave that vehicle - its now an exhibit - if (as I do) I then set out a diorama that includes tents, ammo boxes and other bits n pieces as I replicate an overnight stop for a SPECO team from WW2 - I then encourage interaction with the public as I enjoy sharing my hobby and chatting with people old and young - if someone trips over a wooden ammo crate whilst looking around the diorama - surely know one can expect my vehicle insurance to cover it ? - this is where PPLI comes into play... likewise if someone slips whilst peering into the rear of my truck - again as an exhibit and with me knowhere to be seen as I had popped off to the loo - then again im covered - and for £10 - why oh why is all the fuss ? - wouldn't we want piece of mind and thank those who are arranging this for us rather than wondering as to their motives ? - its a sad world we live in - but with so many claims lawyers crawling over broken glass to grab new business - again - isn't it £10 well spent ???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynx42 Rick Cove Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 All in all a very interesting subject. Here in Australia there is no difference to the UK with regards to insurance. More and more shows are requiring PLI and safety plans for clubs to exhibit at their show. A couple of questions which comes to mind are for us overseas members of the MVT. We only receive the 'Windscreen' and look forward to it too, but why should we have to pay an extra amount for something we will never ever use. If we pay the extra insurance cover, will we be covered for PLI by the MVT at shows and displays in our overseas countries? Looking forward to your replies, Rick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
79x100 Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Rick, the territorial limits are shown in the terms- basically UK only. This means that even UK members won't be covered if they are abroad - and lots do travel to Normandy and Arnhem etc. At the moment, UK law relating to third party insurance and liabilities should be fairly similar to European law - although the UK is more litigious....but the fact remains, I really don't understand at what point I fall outside of the standard third party motor vehicle liabilities and yet at the same time am not covered by the liability section of a household insurance. I'm also puzzled by Clive's suggestion that 'anybody who engages in any activity that is slightly different is at risk'...The liability section of a household insurance covers legal liabilities and then lists exclusions. I've never seen beach-combing or metal detecting listed (and my memory of those goes back to when I had to purchase a 'pipe-finder' licence in order to use it). I come back to the conclusion that the problem lies with liabilities that would not otherwise exist being included within the contract terms by event organisers. Perhaps the clubs should be putting more effort into fighting these unfair and unreasonable conditions ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatchFuzee Posted April 13, 2017 Author Share Posted April 13, 2017 A couple of questions which comes to mind are for us overseas members of the MVT. We only receive the 'Windscreen' and look forward to it too, but why should we have to pay an extra amount for something we will never ever use. If we pay the extra insurance cover, will we be covered for PLI by the MVT at shows and displays in our overseas countries? Looking forward to your replies, Rick. The increase in subscription only appears to be for UK not overseas members. Tim Hawkes safety@mvt.org.uk is the person to ask for the definitive answers to your questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 I'm also puzzled by Clive's suggestion that 'anybody who engages in any activity that is slightly different is at risk'...The liability section of a household insurance covers legal liabilities and then lists exclusions. I've never seen beach-combing or metal detecting listed (and my memory of those goes back to when I had to purchase a 'pipe-finder' licence in order to use it). ? I was required by the County Council to have PLI specific to the activity of metal detecting & without it a permit would not be issued. Anyway so when do we get to vote? If it goes ahead, I hope it will be in place in time for the show season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 I was required by the County Council to have PLI specific to the activity of metal detecting & without it a permit would not be issued. Anyway so when do we get to vote? If it goes ahead, I hope it will be in place in time for the show season. Clive, Windscreen mag arrived yesterday and the address sheet has a voting form on the back, sent mine back already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Richard I wondered when it came out, I was afraid I might have missed the boat. The new fancy MVT website makes no mention of when Windscreen is published, in fact it seems to makes no mention of Windscreen at all. I would have thought many would be regard it as a membership benefit & be given a mention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 So has anyone heard any news of the outcome or are they still counting the votes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 So has anyone heard any news of the outcome or are they still counting the votes? Clive, I was wondering the same, I think Windscreen is due out this week so probably read about in there. Nothing on the website yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sim60 Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 All the votes have been counted and there will be an announcement shortly(it went better than the general election did for some parties:-) Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matchlesswdg3 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Windscreen reports landslide for PLI paid for by uplift in sub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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