arcot1751 Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 I often hear people saying they are converting their 6v equipped vehicle to twelve volts to cure poor starting issues, I have two 6v vehicles a '43 GPW and a '42 Chevrolet G7107 and neither give me any problems whatsoever. However I have just purchased a '42 Dodge WC 52 and the starting was terrible, very very sluggish and often unable to turn the engine quick enough to start the vehicle. I firstly suspected the battery as it seemed fairly old and didn't appear to charge up very quickly so £138 later I had replaced the battery and still no difference :cry: I had already been through all the earths and cleaned and replaced them where necessary but no joy. Sometimes the engine would catch first go but if I missed it the engine would not turn fast enough for a second attempt. The time had come to go to twelve volts or so I thought, but costing it up I thought I would try one last thing and have the starter reconditioned, at £70 it was cheaper than changing to 12v so after struggling to remove it I sent it away to a local independent guy who rebuilt it within 48hrs. The results are amazing the engine turns over as good as any 12v system and the engine starts first time every time ! Not only that but the original battery was fine so if I had had the starter checked first I would have saved £138. The chap who rebuilt the starter said a lot of 6v issues are simply down to bad earths, 12v cables being used instead of the heavier grade 6v ones AND worn/damaged starters. This may save anyone else in the same situation wasting money on converting to 12v when if my results are anything to go by it is totally unnecessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordf30 Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Good to hear someone being sensible at last, they were designed as 6 volt so should be fine. Also if started and used regularly they are always better. 70 year olds do get a bit creaky ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz48 Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 I am half way through a rebuild of a 15-cwt 12-cab Chevrolet for a friend. We were warned to use only 6-volt grade wiring including heavy grade earth straps. Went 2-nd go on the first attempt to start in more than twenty years using a half charge 6-volt battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcot1751 Posted April 11, 2014 Author Share Posted April 11, 2014 Good to hear someone being sensible at last, they were designed as 6 volt so should be fine.Also if started and used regularly they are always better. 70 year olds do get a bit creaky ! I agree if they were good enough when the bullets were flying they are good enough now. If everything is in good shape 6v is fine. :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 My WC54 is 6 volt , clean earths and an addition of Frank's electornic ignition , never a problem. The 12 volt WC51 has one of Frank's boxes as well, 10 odd years now with never a problem, except one dirty earth! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenkinov Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 My 6v jeep gave me concerns when I got her ..but I purchased a high output 6v battery and have had no issues for the 10 years I have owned her....I am pleased that I chose to stick with the 6 volt system ...I start and run the jeep monthly to ensure everything is ok .... Jenkinov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willyslancs Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 had 6V vehicles 30 years no probs ........keep it original Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mogmaner Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 the thing to remember with electrics is that a starter systerm that needs 200A at 12v ,would need 400a at 6v for the same power .24v would only need 100A so cable size realy matters .this is also important on lights . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RattlesnakeBob Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 An interesting post! Thanks!.. I have a 1946 Hudson Commodore with a straight 6 in and have had problems with her firing up .I too bought a mighty good high amperage battery and I also had the starter motor overhauled...checked the earthing straps etc ....but still no good.... I also fitted electronic ignition but... still no good ....it was exactly as someone said... .......if she 'caught' on the first stab of the button you were OK..... but otherwise?.... it was very much a case of....."cross your fingers and hope the battery holds out 'til she finally fired".. (brand new ,very high quality battery don't forget and completely charged up too ) I knew the problem lay in that I wasn't spinning the motor fast enough...she was just labouring over very slowly and pulling every ounce of power out of the battery as she went.......... ...I was at the end of my ideas and was contemplating converting to 12v ....but the thought of the hassle alone, and also of destroying her originality, never mind the cost put me right off.. .so ...... ! I trolled through a few websites and found that many American Hot Rod devotees have the same problem as for some reason, they also run 6v even though they usually also have very high compression motors ......I read and read and after consulting a good vehicle electrician with many years experience ....who confidently tells me a 6v starter will handle 12v no problems as long as it is just for the tiny 'burst' you need to start a well fettled engine......... So I decided to copy their solution ........ I've rigged up a 12v 'assistor' system .....I have a very good 12v battery wired to the started motor with a cut off switch in the line ..the 6v is still there, but there is also a cut off switch in the main cable to the starter motor that stays 'off' at all times...but...the 6v feed for the ignition goes to the battery side of this switch therefore the ignition and everything else is always powered by 6v... ....the 6v also powers the solenoid to bring in the 12v to turn the starter the motor ..so... the 12v only turns the starter motor and doesn't touch anything else... .Now ? one touch of the button and she is absolutely instant....from cold with no choke and only a small squirt on the primer pump ...it's absolutely instant firing and she ticks over right from starting.... This is apparently called a 'total loss system' as you do have to 'top up' the 12v battery now and then as it isn't being charged off the vehicle....the 6v battery still is being charged so.....should you ever get stuck with a dead 12v battery ? ..you simply turn the 12v system 'off' with the isolator and turn the 6v back 'on' ..then you can start her on 6v as normal .... I do wish that I could get her to start reliably on the old 6v system but, as I've explained above......I'm right out of any further ideas as to why she won't....and I need her to start very reliably as she is used for weddings etc .I made up a new carrier for the battery and it's right alongside the other one so it doesn't actually look out of place and could easily be removed totally with less than half an hours work.......... Total cost?... Excluding the 12v battery that I already had 'in stock' ? ............a meter of new heavy battery cable £10+VAT ...2 battery isolator switches... £11.99 each incl VAT and a bit of insulating tape ....a handful of cable connectors (pennies) and about 3 hours work to make and then fit the carrier that was shaped out of some small 1" angle iron that was under the bench anyways! Hope this is of use to someone else and .. very ready and willing to accept any further suggestions as to why she still isn't working well on the 6volt system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Ashby Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 It's been said before but it worth saying again.......... There are undoubted problems 70 years on operating 6 volt systems if any one, or a combination of components are worn/corroded/high resistance. Mogmaner's post demonstrates the problem well, you need every amp you can get and it follows that the resistance of the system must be as low as possible. Putting aside issues with the wrong gauge starter cables and bad earths one thing that is often overlooked when Bendix starters with nose bushes situated in the bell housing are overhauled is the replacement of the nose bush in the bell housing and the rear of the starter motor. If these are worn then the result under torque is the starter dog will try to dig into the starter ring and in effect stall the motor, the motor draws more current the temperature rises the resistance rises and the whole thing stalls. The other common problem is burnt and pitted contacts on the the starter switch. The switch contacts arc, this raises the temperature across the contacts and just like the starter motor the resistance will rise and the current passed will fall. In short........if everything involved in the starting process is in good condition and within spec the engine will start. The military would not have taken delivery of inefficient vehicles and in your case Bob although I admire your work-round I have to say the civilian car market would not buy cars that did not start...... If it won't start there is a reason. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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