Vulture Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 (edited) Guys I'm about to get my first GMC 352. The thought of not being fastened in with the normal three point seat belt in today's cars does cause me some concern. (Some years ago my belt saved me from serious injury). What do you all do ? Do you just risk it, or have you installed lap belts or something ? I plan to take my 9 year old son out and about with me. In the car he sits on a booster seat. Any thoughts on how I'm fixed legally ? Please share your thoughts with this novice to the historic military vehicle world. Kind regards to all Vulture Edited July 17, 2011 by Vulture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth dawe Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 my landrover has 4 point harness fitted but it was used for offroading,my ferret has nothing for the driver but does for the commanders seat which didn't bother me until i had a crash in it, and even at low speed it did hurt quite alot as the inside is very solid which hurts when you bounce off it,if i had a belt on i doute i'd have been hurt at all.so now i think i'd find a way of fitting a belt of some kind even if it looks out of place,better safe than sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan110 Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 GuysI'm about to get my first GMC 352. The thought of not being fastened in with the normal three point seat belt in today's cars does cause me some concern. (Some years ago my belt saved me from serious injury). What do you all do ? Do you just risk it, or have you installed lap belts or something ? I plan to take my 9 year old son out and about with me. In the car he sits on a booster seat. Any thoughts on how I'm fixed legally ?Please share your thoughts with this novice to the historic military vehicle world.Kind regards to allVulture I have taken the leap and traded some of the originality of my Land Rover for extra safety for my children. I now have two lap belts installed on the bench seats in the rear. It's better than nothing. I know what I value more... Daniel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted July 17, 2011 Author Share Posted July 17, 2011 I have taken the leap and traded some of the originality of my Land Rover for extra safety for my children.I now have two lap belts installed on the bench seats in the rear. It's better than nothing. I know what I value more... Daniel Daniel I would never forgive myself if my son got hurt. Where did you get your lap belts from, and would you recommend them ? I've spotted this company that does some... http://www.canleyclassics.com/?xhtml=xhtml/product/securonseatbelts.html&xsl=product.xsl Your thoughts would be appreciated. Cheers Vulture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flywheel Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 (edited) Please be very careful when fitting seat belts in vehicles that did not have them previously as an ill fitted seatbelt can be more dangerous than no seatbelt at all Edited July 17, 2011 by flywheel spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan110 Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Daniel I would never forgive myself if my son got hurt. Where did you get your lap belts from, and would you recommend them ? I've spotted this company that does some... http://www.canleyclassics.com/?xhtml=xhtml/product/securonseatbelts.html&xsl=product.xsl Your thoughts would be appreciated. Cheers Vulture I was just about to write that you need to make sure that the seat belts are anchored to something that can take the strain in case of an accident so I completely agree with Mark. Do make sure your sense of security is not a false sense of security! I didn't install the belts myself but had it done by a Land Rover specialist. Sorry I don't know what the make of the seat belts is (and I am currently not near to my Land Rover). Daniel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz76 Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Hi. You should be able to get seatbelts from a reputable after market dealer like Paddocks http://www.paddockspares.com/parts-and-accessories/series-2-and-3/upholstery-and-interiors/seat-belts.html or john craddock etc. These will probably be Britax or similar and should all have the correct British Standard markings. Make sure you use large spreader plates of steel or similar beneath the seatbelt anchor points or attach to a suitable strong crossmember etc. Bolts should be supplied but if not ensure high tensile bolts are used. If in any doubt get a local MOT test centre to check them over for you. As always common sense when fitting is normally enough and I have not found any problems in the past. You can probably ask the supplier to measure a belt for you to ensure it is long enough for use in the vehicle. Don't be tempted by belts from scrappers or parts sortouts as they may have been used to restrain someone in an accident and lost their strength. Well worth the money spent on new ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferrettkitt Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 my landrover has 4 point harness fitted but it was used for offroading,my ferret has nothing for the driver but does for the commanders seat which didn't bother me until i had a crash in it, and even at low speed it did hurt quite alot as the inside is very solid which hurts when you bounce off it,if i had a belt on i doute i'd have been hurt at all.so now i think i'd find a way of fitting a belt of some kind even if it looks out of place,better safe than sorry. Ferrets at one point did have a drivers seat belt bolted to the hull floor. I only had the end on the floor with no remains of the other end where it clunked into. If it loops up from the floor over the shoulders in a crash it would compress the spine as it tightened and locked as the body moved forward. A lap belt would have held you to the seat but you might then have kissed the rim of the hatch with lots and lots of expensive dental work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Ditto the advice about talking to an MOT test centre. It would be ironic if your attempts to improve safety resulted in an MOT failure! Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Important thread this, kids unrestrained in open vintage vehicles always worries me, as to lap belts, please don't fit them, google 'lap belt injuries' to see why. All seat belts will cause some soft tissue damage in an accident, but studies show that when lap belts only are used, fatal injuries occur throughout the entire range of speeds, as low as 12mph, with three point restraints, no deaths occurred at speeds less that 60mph. Not for the squeamish: http://radiographics.rsna.org/content/11/1/23.full.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runflat Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 These people have been retro-fitting seatbelts to classic and vintage cars for years. May be worth giving them a chat. http://www.quickfitsbs.com/index.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Gritineye makes a good point re. lap belts. Bit of a dilemma, as these would be relatively easy to fit in either an open or closed cab 352. Which cab do you have? The high mount point for a 3 point restraint would certainly be more of a challenge with the closed cab than open due to the double skinned construction of thin sheet steel - though not impossible by any means as there is a strong looking seam at about the right height. I'd be inclined to take a load of close-up photos of the cab construction and discuss with one of the professional installers mentioned above, they may see a simpler solution. As for whether to fit them, I suspet you've already made up your mind and I don't blame you. As for me, I've never given it a second thought - until you brought up the subject! :argh::-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted July 18, 2011 Author Share Posted July 18, 2011 Important thread this, kids unrestrained in open vintage vehicles always worries me, as to lap belts, please don't fit them, google 'lap belt injuries' to see why. All seat belts will cause some soft tissue damage in an accident, but studies show that when lap belts only are used, fatal injuries occur throughout the entire range of speeds, as low as 12mph, with three point restraints, no deaths occurred at speeds less that 60mph. Not for the squeamish: http://radiographics.rsna.org/content/11/1/23.full.pdf Yikes ! :shocked: Never realised that lapbelts even at slow speeds could do so much damage. Vulture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted July 18, 2011 Author Share Posted July 18, 2011 These people have been retro-fitting seatbelts to classic and vintage cars for years. May be worth giving them a chat. http://www.quickfitsbs.com/index.php I shall give them a call today. It's quite a drive to get to them, wonder if they will come to me ? We shall see. Cheers Vulture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted July 18, 2011 Author Share Posted July 18, 2011 Gritineye makes a good point re. lap belts. Bit of a dilemma, as these would be relatively easy to fit in either an open or closed cab 352. Which cab do you have? The high mount point for a 3 point restraint would certainly be more of a challenge with the closed cab than open due to the double skinned construction of thin sheet steel - though not impossible by any means as there is a strong looking seam at about the right height. I'd be inclined to take a load of close-up photos of the cab construction and discuss with one of the professional installers mentioned above, they may see a simpler solution. As for whether to fit them, I suspet you've already made up your mind and I don't blame you. As for me, I've never given it a second thought - until you brought up the subject! :argh::-D NOS It's an open cab, and yes I think the way ahead that you and some others have suggested is to talk to a professional installer. I want to keep the vehicle as original as possible, as I'm sure most of want to, but safety is safety both for myself and any passengers. What I'm really conscious of is the danger of somebody rear-ending me, which in a vehicle that is probably only comfortable around 38mph is always a real possibility. I've been out in a friends jeep many times (in fact I went to Normandy in it for the 60th celebrations), and all he has is lap-belts. Must confess I was always conscious that the slightest accident is likely to be fatal. I won't matter whose fault it was, you will be equally dead. Anyway, I'll get back with some feedback from the installers when I have some. Kind regards to all Vulture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz76 Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 That seems the most sensible thing to do Vulture. Gritineye makes a valid point about lap belts too. Is it essential that family ride with you? I'm assuming that quite a lot of journeys in the GMC would be relatively short, in which case would it not be much safer to put the children in a car to meet you at the destination? Not trying to be a spoilsport as we all like having our kids with us and it's a treat for them, but from the safety point of view it may be the better option? Would be interested to hear what the installation company says when you talk to them. Hope you can find an easy solution. :-D Daz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted July 18, 2011 Author Share Posted July 18, 2011 That seems the most sensible thing to do Vulture. Gritineye makes a valid point about lap belts too. Is it essential that family ride with you? I'm assuming that quite a lot of journeys in the GMC would be relatively short, in which case would it not be much safer to put the children in a car to meet you at the destination? Not trying to be a spoilsport as we all like having our kids with us and it's a treat for them, but from the safety point of view it may be the better option?Would be interested to hear what the installation company says when you talk to them. Hope you can find an easy solution. :-D Daz Daz Yes, I see this as a family ride kind of vehicle . I've spoken to the company who can either fit them for me, or send them in the post. If I send them photos of the cab, they will recommend the best type to fit, and if I want to fit myself, where it should all go. For a standard three point belt arrangement prices seem to be between £45 and £70 per belt, which in the scheme of things seems pretty reasonable to me. Kind regards Vulture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz76 Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Seems pretty good to me for peace of mind. Glad you got it sorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan110 Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Important thread this, kids unrestrained in open vintage vehicles always worries me, as to lap belts, please don't fit them, google 'lap belt injuries' to see why. All seat belts will cause some soft tissue damage in an accident, but studies show that when lap belts only are used, fatal injuries occur throughout the entire range of speeds, as low as 12mph, with three point restraints, no deaths occurred at speeds less that 60mph. Not for the squeamish: http://radiographics.rsna.org/content/11/1/23.full.pdf Hmmm food for thought. I do have lap belts in the rear of the Land Rover... Not sure what's in the back of the current Wolf version, don't remember three point belts there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted July 18, 2011 Author Share Posted July 18, 2011 Seems pretty good to me for peace of mind. Glad you got it sorted. I (hopefully) pick up the vehicle on 30th July, so I'll be taking a bunch of photos within a couple of days of that, and sending them to the company for their assessment. I'll post on this thread how it all goes. Kind regards to all Vulture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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