Ferret plugs, coil and dizzy stuff

[Tkelly1250]

A friend as about changing plugs, wires and dizzy on his 60 Ferret... I thought I would share my email in case others might benefit...

 

As you are standing at the back of the tank looking forward, on the right side of the engine mid-way up is the distributor box. It is large, square and metal. Four nuts on the top. Lots of braided wire entering it.

 

If you remove the four nuts, the top cover comes off. Below will be a more standard looking distributor, but closed with the spark plug wires entering it. There are 3 brass screws holding the lid to the “dizzy” or distributor as the Brits call its. Remove the 3 screws and lift the cover off the dizzy. You now will see where the plug wires attach to the dizzy.

 

Remove all of the braided wires and the plug wires from both the plugs as well as from the dizzy. Throw these away. Don’t worry about rubber grommets holding the plug wires into the dizzy… only really needed if you plan to “”show” his tank for ribbon purposes at car shows or if people will be shooting at him and he wants to keep the dizzy set-up armored! Hence, remove all of this stuff. Go and buy whatever brand of plug wires you think are best. MSD makes some good wires. Buy a set of 6 with straight plug boots. The reach is pretty short so any box of wires should work fine. Trim them down if too long from the side that enters the dizzy (see pic above). You’ll notice the dizzy side allows you to just push the wires into small sharp connections in each wire recess. Don’t worry, each cylinder is clearly marked on the dizzy cover 1-6 so you can’t screw up (1 cyl is back of tank). Go ahead and trim the ends of each wire so that you are sure the wire pierces the sharp connector. I took a razor blade and shved a nice flat part on each wire and looked to see it protrude when I pushed it over the sharp connector with a pair of long nose pliers. The pliers work well because it allows you to push without fear of shearing into the plug wire. Remove and install a new coil wire as well using the same approach. When you are done, you will have 6 new plug wires exiting the dizzy from what used to be the braided cable connectors but now just protruding. I shot some black silicon caulk into each hole to maintain a little weather resistance into the dizzy. Remove the old plugs and replace with your new Champion N5C ones. Put the cover back o n the dizzy, the cover back onto the metal protector and attach all of your plug wires to your plugs.

 

Head over to the other side of the engine, near the backside of the tank. The coil is also enclosed in a bullet resistant cover (see below). Take the cover off (furthest right cover in this picture) by removing the 4 nuts. Reach in and unscrew the knurl nut that secures the coil wire that runs to the dizzy. DO NOT DROP the knurl nut like I did into the engine compartment! Remove the old coil wire running to the dizzy and pull the new one you attached to the dizzy into the coil. Close it all back up. You now have (1) new plugs, (2) new high performance plug wires, and (3) a new coil wire. Together you have just increased the intensity of the spark by like 100x! Compare the old plugs to the new plugs and you’ll see what a mean. How did they even run on the old plugs??

 

Now, depending on your interest, there is one to three other things you might consider that I have done. Here you go…

(1) Check engine timing. Under the dizzy, about flush with the exhaust header, are two nuts (one on each side of the dizzy shaft). If you loosen these, you will be able to easily adjust the engine’s timing. I found mine was off quite a bit. Have someone start and warm the engine up. Once warmed and idling, keep in mind were the dizzy was optically when you started and then turn the dizzy left and right from its initial stance and listen to engine. If RPMs climb, you have achieved a better timing. If they fall or engine stalls, go back to prior position and confirm engine runs smoothly. You’re done timing engine. Tighten the two bolts.

(2) Check dizzy cap, rotor and points. The dizzy has three long bolts (the lower one can be seen in 2 of the pictures high above) that hold the dizzy cap and top down. Loosen all three bolts and the dizzy unit top – the dizzy cap – will come apart from the lower section of the dizzy.

 

Clean your points carefully with a piece of fine sand paper. Maybe spray some electronic cleaner as well into the point to make nice and clean. Take the rotor off and also clean that off:

 

Clean the contacts inside the dizzy cap. I used a dremel tool with a soft brush end so that I would not remove any of the contact but just clean.

 

All done. You can put the rotor back and reinstall and tighten the dizzy back with the three mounting bolts.

 

(3) OR, if the rotor, points, etc. looked bad or pretty beat up, there is one last thing you can do that I just did this weekend… reopen the lower portion of the dizzy and expose the rotor, points and condenser. Go to the following web site

 

http://www.classicheads.com/Electronic_Ignition.html

 

and call and order a new magnetic sending unit that will replace the whole base plate assembly (looks like this and your application is a Rolls Royce B60 six cylinder for a 1960 Daimler Ferret)…

 

The new assembly drops in and after rotor is put back, easily tightened and all done. Two wires run from the unit to your coil. That’s it. The ignition system with this new magnetic module, plugs and oh, buy a new coil from Jolley Manufacturing – why not? – and the tank will start and run like a brand new car! All for about $400 for the unit!

 

Do not hesitate to call if you have any questions… Have fun. 1.847-345-3015. Tim

[sirhc]

The coil is also enclosed in a bullet resistant cover (see below).

 

Really?! :nut:

[Marmite!!]

The coil is also enclosed in a bullet resistant cover (see below).

 

So the bullet has got through the Armour but the coil is well protected... that must be some cover on the coil...:rolleyes:

[ferrettkitt]

???? I don't think that I need to add more but I'm going too

 

Why would you want to throw the braided wire around the plug wire away? Solder the new wire to the old wire and pull it through.

 

Why didn't you ask before doing that

[Richard Farrant]

Together you have just increased the intensity of the spark by like 100x!

 

 

Tim,

 

I am intrigued as to how you know the spark is a 100 times better now?

 

These Rolls Royce engines and many other types with screened ignition (screened against radio interference, not bullets) have been around for 70 years without to much problems........but you live and learn :coffee:

 

regards, Richard

[MiketheBike]

???? I don't think that I need to add more but I'm going too

 

Why would you want to throw the braided wire around the plug wire away? Solder the new wire to the old wire and pull it through.

 

Why didn't you ask before doing that

 

 

I have a spare distributor, and I replaced all the cables within the braded outers no problem. Bit fiddly removing the connectors at the plug ends, but after doing one, the others were easy. Maybe Daimler should have made the hull out of 3mm alloy, the Ferret would have been much lighter?

[Tkelly1250]

Wow, I'm glad you all appreciated some thoughts for us newbies trying to upgrade their Ferret electronics. I'll keep that in mind for future messages... can you guys who had such a good chuckle on my posting point me in the direction of posts you have added that were intended to help others? Do me a favor and wear a red hat when you go to the pub next time... that way if I happen to be there too, I'll know you're with the jerk crowd! :-D

[Tkelly1250]

???? I don't think that I need to add more but I'm going too

 

Why would you want to throw the braided wire around the plug wire away? Solder the new wire to the old wire and pull it through.

 

Why didn't you ask before doing that

 

Ever try soldering to high performance coil wire? Obviously not or you would know you can't. Good try. Wrong attempt at brilliance. :nut:

[fv1609]

point me in the direction of posts you have added that were intended to help others?

 

Tim there is some coverage on here:

 

http://www.hmvf.co.uk/pdf/IGNITIONMATTERS.pdf

Edited April 27, 2010 by fv1609

[Tkelly1250]

Tim,

 

I am intrigued as to how you know the spark is a 100 times better now?

 

These Rolls Royce engines and many other types with screened ignition (screened against radio interference, not bullets) have been around for 70 years without to much problems........but you live and learn :coffee:

 

regards, Richard

 

Ok, Richard, let me rephrase that... "you've probably just improved the efficiency of the spark and its intensity quite dramatically"... is that better? Oh, btw, I actually used Granatelli wires. Granatelli uses a stainless steel core, wrapped in silver plated copper wiring. My OHM meter showed they had an OHM resistance rating of 2.8. MSD wires have a 33+ OHM resistance. When I checked the OHM rating of the original Ferret wires, my meter showed over 1200 OHMs (and that was just the wire rating... bet it would be even higher if you added in the copper connecting points at the plugs). Now, might be different in Britain, but in the US 1200 versus the 2.8 that I used is a tad better than 100x improvement... would you agree? But heck, you guys seem to know more than I do! :shocked:

[Tkelly1250]

Tim there is some coverage on here:

 

http://www.hmvf.co.uk/pdf/IGNITIONMATTERS.pdf

 

Hi Clive... you are the only one that seems to be willing to help a guy and not just spend time trashing his post intended to help! Thanks buddy. I appreciate all you have added in these posts for us newbies!

[fv1609]

Tim ok, but don't get me wrong I'm not one of those Ferret people, I'm a Pig man!

[Tkelly1250]

So the bullet has got through the Armour but the coil is well protected... that must be some cover on the coil...:rolleyes:

 

Boy, you and the prior member are really great guys! Glad to see you're having fun... And the cover on the coil... not to protect it? Must be to retain heat ha? Resist... look it up. :nut::nut::nut:

[Tkelly1250]

???? I don't think that I need to add more but I'm going too

 

Why would you want to throw the braided wire around the plug wire away? Solder the new wire to the old wire and pull it through.

 

Why didn't you ask before doing that

 

I couldn't help one more fun post... to all of you experts and very bright Ferret owners... why not pull it through? Daaaaa... because high performance wires are 8.5mm versus the original issue which I am guessing is more like 7mm... ever try pulling a sausage through a straw? Soldering it doesn't help get it through... simple engineering principal! Good try though... :cool2:

[fv1609]

And the cover on the coil... not to protect it?

 

Tim, yes you are correct it does indeed give a degree of protection, but being only a cast alloy it is not very robust. It also gives protection in the form of waterproofing for wading and it is an integral part of the screening system to try to minimise RF interference.

 

If I've got it right the point you are making about wire resistance is that of the HT cable. As it is such a high voltage but low current the effect resistance is not very significant. Civilian suppressed HT cable per plug lead is typically 10 k, which even that high has minimal effect. I have measured it with high voltage instruments & can't really see much difference.

 

But I don't like that stuff, particularly if you have to crimp on a terminal. I much prefer copper wire, just seems more reliable & having unnecesssary resistance just doesn't seem right I have to agree.

[FoolsHumor]

Mr. Kelly,

 

I am also in the USA and I can assure you that Richard, Clive, Chris and a number of other gentlemen here and on the Ferret group, do in fact know more than we do. I have been asking Ferret questions for years and they have all been kind enough to share their vast empirical knowledge and actual hands on experience with those of us who need and have asked for it. Please treat them with some respect. They all deserve it.

 

Regards,

 

Bob

[Marmite!!]

I happen to be there too, I'll know you're with the jerk crowd! :-D

 

Please do not insult the members of this forum, final warning.

[Jack]

Please do not insult the members of this forum, final warning.

 

Yes have to agree with that. Go steady Sir.

[N.O.S.]

From the Marshall Aid Plan......

[radiomike7]

I am fascinated by the order in which you have carried out this work, first you ignore the timing marks and set the timing by trial and error and then you decide to service the points which will alter the timing.:shocked: There is also another vital component known as a condensor which is well worth checking on these distributors but hey, perhaps leave that for another day.

[ferrettkitt]

I couldn't help one more fun post... to all of you experts and very bright Ferret owners... why not pull it through? Daaaaa... because high performance wires are 8.5mm versus the original issue which I am guessing is more like 7mm... ever try pulling a sausage through a straw? Soldering it doesn't help get it through... simple engineering principal! Good try though... :cool2:

 

Its been done by many owners but hey you're right what do we know. Easy way to pass a sausage through a straw use a blender and suck it up!

[Marmite!!]

Locking this one for now...

[Jack]

OK folks -opened back up again - so lets move on and get back to it.

 

Best wishes,

 

Jack.

[Marmite!!]

As Jack said, let's move on & get back on topic :-\ no other comment required...

[Andrew S]

Clive,

I am a Ferret owner and am about to install a Jolley system electronic ignition and a matched high performance ignition coil. I have read your article "ignition matters". I thank you for writing that it was very informative. I have a question I wanted to run by you.

Looking at all the diagrams i think the simplest way to wire my system is:

 

1. Splice in the black wire as you did in the article

2. To eliminate the ballast resistor bypass circuit i was going to remove the wire from the BST terminal in the junction box.(& isolate the end with electrical tape)

3. For my 24v constant supply to the red wire I was going to splice to the wire in the junction box connected to the post labelled R.

 

This will keep all the connections at the junction box without having to go into the switchboard etc.

Do you see anything I might have not thought of in this or any reason these connections would not do the job? The hardest part will be to get the red wire into the junction box but I might just drill a small hole in the side of the box to get the wire in.

 

Any advice much appreciated,

 

Andrew

06CC12 1959 Daimler Ferret