croc Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 Can anyone tell us, of the thousands of articulated lorrys on the roads of Britain, how many are fitted with safety chains in case the fifth wheel coupling fails? and what legislation are they contravening by not having safety chains fitted? I am not saying don't fit them, but why bother if the outfit is designed not to need them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 Based on the what I have read, tomorrow I shall turn off all the airbags in my car as I have a seatbelt so they aren't needed and whilst at work I will only use the one safety catch on my Atlas crane legs and not use the other 2 safety features fitted in the factory and during my lunch break I will write to all the military powers to tell them to stop wasting money with fitting chains and chaining points on all the vehicles and trailers. I don't think so, thanks but I'll be sticking with my over complicated set up knowing that if the brown stuff ever hit the fan at least I had a back up plan in place rather than being so sure that a mistake would never happen and have no second option. While I wait for the law to turn up I could wait in my safe deck chair wrapped in bubble wrap. ??? What's the big deal, you use chains, I don't that is all there is to it, no one is telling you not to use them, just be happy for us folk who are a bit more relaxed about things, and have found a simpler life style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Posted January 28, 2010 Author Share Posted January 28, 2010 (edited) Can anyone tell us, of the thousands of articulated lorrys on the roads of Britain, how many are fitted with safety chains in case the fifth wheel coupling fails? and what legislation are they contravening by not having safety chains fitted? I am not saying don't fit them, but why bother if the outfit is designed not to need them? We arn't talking about articulated lorries at all, totaly diffrent set up. My truck and gun are designed to have break away chains hence my orignal posting What's the big deal, you use chains, I don't that is all there is to it, no one is telling you not to use them, just be happy for us folk who are a bit more relaxed about things, and have found a simpler life style? I'm very relaxed about putting two chains on, I never made it a big deal, i asked a simple question which was "Hi Guys, I need some advice and information regarding using chains for the saftey / breakaway set up when I'm towing my howitzer. The gun weigh 5.5ton so in needs to be hefty. Below is a picture of British ferret recovery chains, I was thinking of using something simular but longer as the chains that are pictured are only 2 foot long.These chains are ideal (except length) as they have the large eyes at each end. 3 foot in length would be good? Anyone have ideas or options for me ??? All i got was dont use them etc etc and it has lasted 8 pages of the same sort of reply so really i havent made the big deal and like it says on you own signature "stop being so serious"!!! Edited January 29, 2010 by Marmite!! Quote tags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 (edited) I've just found a website where you can burst bubble wrap virtually. I might be some time....... Edited January 29, 2010 by N.O.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotBed Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 What's the big deal, you use chains, I don't that is all there is to it, no one is telling you not to use them, just be happy for us folk who are a bit more relaxed about things, and have found a simpler life style. we are relaxed mike, you have made it a big deal, not us :nut: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 (edited) we are relaxed mike, you have made it a big deal, not us :nut: I am thoroughly relaxed. I am not suggesting not using safety devices already provided nor am I am suggesting taking Airbags out of modern vehicles, where did that one come from? The point is some people are advocating modifying military vehicles with fittings they never had just to"improve safety" and some people reckon this to be the way forward. Rather than taking airbags out of modern cars, from your standpoint i'd have thought you would be concidering fitting airbags to old military vehicles, after all , your viewpoint seems to be, anything you do that might possibly increase safety should be done. So why not airbags in all military trucks, ABS braking retro fitted, redsign the front ends with crumple zones, fit bigger E marked mirrors, Change all the air valves for modern versions, fit circuit protection valves here there and everywhere, maybe reversing beepers, A rear camera would be a good idea (this would also help you to see if your trailer HAS fallen off), There is no end to how you can modify to gain a supposed benfit of extra safety.... Inclcuding painting them a more visible colour (maybe Dynarod red??) so that will be better seen in modern trafiic, or driving down a leafy, winding country lanes.... Edited January 29, 2010 by antarmike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooky Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Can anyone tell us, of the thousands of articulated lorrys on the roads of Britain, how many are fitted with safety chains in case the fifth wheel coupling fails? and what legislation are they contravening by not having safety chains fitted? I am not saying don't fit them, but why bother if the outfit is designed not to need them? Safety chains are fitted to ALL fith wheel couplings if they are not fitted with an inbuilt safety clip. Even then some of these have a safety chain and dog clip fitted (belt/braces/second belt). Failure to use the device is a PG9 offence. We fit dog clips and chains to most of our self locking fith wheels so that if VOSA see the vehicle is fitted with clip and chain we dont get a tug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
croc Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Safety chains are fitted to ALL fith wheel couplings if they are not fitted with an inbuilt safety clip. Even then some of these have a safety chain and dog clip fitted (belt/braces/second belt).Failure to use the device is a PG9 offence. We fit dog clips and chains to most of our self locking fith wheels so that if VOSA see the vehicle is fitted with clip and chain we dont get a tug Is that a chain linking the trailer to the tractor unit in case the fifth wheel fails, or part of the fifth wheel safety device? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotBed Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 I am thoroughly relaxed. I am not suggesting not using safety devices already provided nor am I am suggesting taking Airbags out of modern vehicles, where did that one come from? The point is some people are advocating modifying military vehicles with fittings they never had just to"improve safety" and some people reckon this to be the way forward. Rather than taking airbags out of modern cars, from your standpoint i'd have thought you would be concidering fitting airbags to old military vehicles, after all , your viewpoint seems to be, anything you do that might possibly increase safety should be done. So why not airbags in all military trucks, ABS braking retro fitted, redsign the front ends with crumple zones, fit bigger E marked mirrors, Change all the air valves for modern versions, fit circuit protection valves here there and everywhere, maybe reversing beepers, A rear camera would be a good idea (this would also help you to see if your trailer HAS fallen off), There is no end to how you can modify to gain a supposed benfit of extra safety.... Inclcuding painting them a more visible colour (maybe Dynarod red??) so that will be better seen in modern trafiic, or driving down a leafy, winding country lanes.... mike, i have not suggested any mods to any vehicle, all i have tried to do was help maverick answer his question, you are the one that has gone off on one about fitting chains to your lorrys not mavericks, that you have no mounting points and that it is not needed,mavericks lorry has mounting points, you have had two replys on this thread about trailers coming off, human error, i have been around machinery all my life and have seen a lot of misshaps, mostly human error, you are obviously one of those rare people that has nothing go wrong, never makes a mistake and is perfect in every way why cant you just help maverick answer his question about where to get chains, than have nine pages of you dont need them etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 (edited) Any lifting and tackle shop will sell Kuplex grade T alloy steel chain. to BS 4942 Parts 1 and 5:1981 ISO 1834 and 3076 -1980. 7mm chain has a working load of 1.5 Tonnes Min breaking load of 7.9 Tonnes 10mm working load of 3.2 tonnes and min breaking load of 14 Tonnes For 13mm the figure are 5.4 Tonnes and 18.45 Tonnes They will have a range of connectors eg Kuplex Component connector TL, Kuplex shackle KDL, Reevable egg links KSS , if you want hooks you could use Kuplex sling hook KH, or their wide bowl hook KHW. Seeing as there is worry in peoples minds about unknown service histrory and possible fatigue, suggest you use new. I find yellow pages very useful, or google a tackle shop. Kuplex are in my opinion overpriced but well respectedOther makers sell similar chin and fittings often reffered to as grade 8 or grade 8(T) Edited January 29, 2010 by antarmike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Now I have answered that question Can I say I am still not persuaded about the need? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 (edited) mike, i have not suggested any mods to any vehicle No but other people have, and I was addressing them, not you in this comment. I guess you would have to modify both vehicles in order to attach chains? If I wanted to use safety chains I would probably drill a couple of holes in appropriate places or attach some brackets somewhere ..... Edited January 29, 2010 by antarmike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotBed Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Seeing as there is worry in peoples minds about unknown service histrory and possible fatigue, suggest you use new.. that could also apply to the lorry hitch ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotBed Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Now I have answered that question Can I say I am still not persuaded about the need? was t so hard was it :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 that could also apply to the lorry hitch ? More likely to apply to the shaft the steering wheel fits to, but I can't think of a foolproof way of having a second steering system as backup should the steering wheel come of in your hands.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 was t so hard was it :-D I didn't really think that the question needed answering, surely there aren't many people in this movement who don't know where there local chain, sling and hook supplier is, or roughly what they sell... That is the only reason I have been reluctant to offer advice as to how to get hold of a chain, but obviously I am over-estimating the usefulness of yellow pages, and peoples ability to read through them...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianthesnail96 Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Mole grips clamped under the steering wheel on the steering column? I've steered (on tow, off road) a Land Rover with no steering wheel using mole grips- not much fun, but it worked. Probably not recommended though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodge Deep Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Well I think we've chewed all the flavour from this particular bit of gum... time to stick it under the table:trustme: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Posted January 29, 2010 Author Share Posted January 29, 2010 Antarmike Quote: “ So why not airbags in all military trucks, ABS braking retro fitted, redsign the front ends with crumple zones, fit bigger E marked mirrors, Change all the air valves for modern versions, fit circuit protection valves here there and everywhere, maybe reversing beepers, A rear camera would be a good idea (this would also help you to see if your trailer HAS fallen off), There is no end to how you can modify to gain a supposed benfit of extra safety.... Inclcuding painting them a more visible colour (maybe Dynarod red??) so that will be better seen in modern trafiic, or driving down a leafy, winding country lanes.... Instead of writng a lot of rubish like above with lots of sarcastic coments, you could of answered the question with a sensiable answer which is what you have now done. You could of done that 9 pages ago and then said I don’t use them etc etc and then we could have a discusion. Do not try and make members look less cleaver than you, it dosent work As a nameless member has just pointed out to me and I quote “What worries me is that soon people will think twice before starting threads like this, which would be a great pity”. Forum Members: Read the question first, answer it, then disscuss it that’s how a forum works dosent it ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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