Fordson WOT 2

[thedawnpatrol]

Sorry Guys, it's me bleating on about my WOT2 again,

 

Well, after waiting what seamed like months for the DVLA to come and check my truck, I was finally given a registration number last Thursday, So for the first time today, I drove her the 8 miles from where she was off loaded to my home, this is the first time she has been on the road.

Over all she drove quite well, steering was good, power ok at 30MPH ish, Gears...............well I'll have to get used to those,

Clutch..............very jerky when slowly releasing the clutch, is this normal ?

Brakes..............Poor, will have to ajust!

But.......................................my bigest disapointment was I over heated, set of with a full rad, but was dumping water all the way, my wife tells me who was following!.

Now, before I ask you wise fellows for ideas, hears some back ground.

 

Before I had her, the chap had a cylinder head go, so he changed the gaskett, so, persume all ok, when i ran her in the yard on tick over, I thought I had a leak from one of the water pumps, so I tipped in a bottle of Holts Rad weld..............great, that cured it!

 

Untill today!, but, when I pulled up on my drive, steaming well, and after she had cooled slightly, I added more water to an empty Rad, and ran the engine again, now she was again fine on tick over, but, as soon as I gave her some revs she dumped a load out of the over fill pipe, (more than normal) Also when I un screwed the Rad cap, water was bubbling and spitting, rising and falling!

 

So, any thoughts gents?

 

Cheers

 

Jules

[Richard Farrant]

But.......................................

Untill today!, but, when I pulled up on my drive, steaming well, and after she had cooled slightly, I added more water to an empty Rad, and ran the engine again, now she was again fine on tick over, but, as soon as I gave her some revs she dumped a load out of the over fill pipe, (more than normal) Also when I un screwed the Rad cap, water was bubbling and spitting, rising and falling!

 

So, any thoughts gents?

 

 

 

 

Jules,

 

What work have you done to it, for instance, has the radiator been off, and if so was it flushed out?

Have you flushed the block? Is there a thermostat fitted and have you checked it?

 

When the previous owner changed the head gasket, it might have been because of this same problem. To save any damage being done, I would flush radiator and block right through.

[AndyFowler]

Sounds like headgasket problem to me mate !:cry:

[Tony B]

Is it a pressurised system Jules? Have you renewed all the hoses? Don't just visibly check. They may be collaping internally so change completley. Get a good rad flush and back flush the sytem, and a new thermostat. Check the themostat is A Correct way up and B does it need to be set with the into the head a certain way, some have an arrow on them. Good soft water, distilled or rain, and a decent antifreze. K Bar in the system can also help. And don't forget obvoius, is the drive belt in good condition and correct tension.

[Swill1952xs]

Well I'm no expert on ageing military vehicles, but have been a mechanic for forty years, so here goes.

If you put water in the cooling system and it blows coolant out almost immediately on revving it; then it's most likely that you are losing compression into the cooling system.

Does your engine have a thermostat. It may not be opening enough to allow sufficient water flow to the radiator when under load or at higher revs?

When the engine is cold; can you see coolant circulating through the radiator. If it doesn't circulate when it reaches working temperature it could be that the radiator core is blocked as a result of using a "Sealer" in the system.

I would imagine airlocks are unlikely as many of the old engines relied on the "Thermo syphon" system to circulate coolant. These systems rarely have a water pump but have a tall radiator standing well above the engine. If it has a water pump in the cooling system; it isn't unheard of for the water pump impeller to either corrode to the point that it wont circulate the water, or in some cases; it can come off the water pump shaft.

 

1- Best find out if it has a thermostat first.

2- Check to see if the coolant is blowing out when the engine is cold. (Head Gasket or cracked casting)

3-Check the radiator isn't blocked. (Put a garden hose in the bottom hose of the rad and back flush it)

4- Make sure there are no restrictions in any of the hoses and no possibility of airlocks.

5- If it has a water pump, make sure it is circulating the water.

 

Best of luck..... I hope this has been of some help.

 

As regards your juddery clutch......... that is most probably rust, but check your engine mountings aren't separated or badly softened with age or oil contamination.

 

Jus' tryin' ta be 'elpful.........As we say down 'ere :-D

[Chrisg]

Head gasket

[ted angus]

Any sign of coolant in the oil or oil in the coolant? once she is warmed up, remove the rotor arm from the dizzy then take a spark plug out now turn her over on the starter motor any coolant traces ejected from the plug hole ??

TED

 

ps my money is also on a head gasket

[Richard Farrant]

ps my money is also on a head gasket

 

Could be right there Ted, but if it is the same head that previous owner fitted a new gasket to, then the problem could be deeper in, hence why the gasket is blowing. When the gasket was changed previously, the head may not have been checked for bow, this could be why it has failed so quick, assuming it is the gasket blown. I still go for a build up of crud in the block, reducing water capacity as the initial root of the problem, gasket can just be a result of it.

[woa2]

A WOT2 will dump about 2 pints of water from a filled radiator, and is normal.

WOT2s also overheat - check the fanbelts, they need to be in good and new condition, don't use old or NOS ones. Are the fanbelts tight enough? I bought some new fanbelts via the airconditioning staff at work (they got them at half price) and they seem to help considerably, but they weren't cheap - 4 belts for £50, and this is half price.

It is possible the radweld has blocked up part of the radiator, when was it last checked? Recoring it might help.

What does the temp gauge run at? It is normal for a Ford V8 to run at 180F in a WOT2.

Ford V8 blocks do get some rust build up in the engine which just running won't shift. Take it for a good fast run and then change the water to get the rubbish out.

 

Good Luck.

Edited May 9, 2009 by woa2
Forgot a bit

[Guest catweazle (Banned Member)]

You can go round and round in circles,buy a gas test kit or beg steal or borrow,failing that if you can take it to someone who has one .it will tell you if there is combustion gases in the water.If there is this will focus on the area you need to attend to.I dont know how we managed without this product.Before it was a bit like playing darts.cw.

[Tony B]

You can go round and round in circles,buy a gas test kit or beg steal or borrow,failing that if you can take it to someone who has one .it will tell you if there is combustion gases in the water.If there is this will focus on the area you need to attend to.I dont know how we managed without this product.Before it was a bit like playing darts.cw.

 

Next question CW, where does one get one and how do they work?

[Guest catweazle (Banned Member)]

Theres some on E.bay universall block tester or Sealey VS 0061,its a chemical test it turns from blue to yellow if leaking,remember if it has problems you need to be carefull the water doesnt spit out whilst your doing the test.You have to be brave wear protective gloves,Needs to be at running temp and there may be a temperature it lets go at which is a fine line.

[thedawnpatrol]

Ok, this morning I have opened both Rad drain cocks, put a hose in the the top and flushed through with cold water.

Still did it............

So, this afternoon took off both Cylinder Heads, nice new copper gaskets already fitted, also noticed the head had been skimmed, no signs of damage to gasket or marks on head or block, so to make certain sure I replaced gaskets with just a fine smear of gasket sealant.

 

All bolted down, and ran her again................

 

No luck, still the same, the more i revved her the more she pumped out of the over flow! If I had kept up the high revs I'm sure she would have dumped all the water again !

Surely, it can not be head gasket now, but what else?

there is not thermostat fitted. All hoses are clear. perhaps I should but some of that Rad Flush? could it still be a blocked Rad ?

[Richard Farrant]

Ok, this morning I have opened both Rad drain cocks, put a hose in the the top and flushed through with cold water.

Still did it............

So, this afternoon took off both Cylinder Heads, nice new copper gaskets already fitted, also noticed the head had been skimmed, no signs of damage to gasket or marks on head or block, so to make certain sure I replaced gaskets with just a fine smear of gasket sealant.

 

All bolted down, and ran her again................

 

No luck, still the same, the more i revved her the more she pumped out of the over flow! If I had kept up the high revs I'm sure she would have dumped all the water again !

Surely, it can not be head gasket now, but what else?

there is not thermostat fitted. All hoses are clear. perhaps I should but some of that Rad Flush? could it still be a blocked Rad ?

 

 

Jules,

 

Get the radiator off to a reliable repairer, I come across a good many of these old vehicles with restricted cores. While it is off, flush the block out again, the water pump bottom hose connection will allow any muck to escape. You do not want anything left in the system that will get in the rad after having it cleaned ( or new core fitted ).

[goanna]

Jules

 

Sounds like the header tank is being pressurised . Without thermostsats X 2 , the coolant rushes into the header tank unrestricted . The thermostsats in effect , provide a small port , where a metered amount of coolant flow is let by . Too much flow and the header tank cannot cope with it, becomes pressurised , and the coolant finds the overflow tube and out it goes. Remember, it takes time for the coolant to reach the lower tank through the tubes in the core.... your water pumps are trying to force the coolant around without any restriction.

 

Just a theory .

 

Myself and a friend owned a WOT2D and we drove it up to a MV rally at Corowa .. almost 200 miles on a very hot March day ..temp in the 90's F .. it ran beautifully .. it loved the hot weather . pics here http://www.geocities.com/vmvc1au/index.html

 

Mike

Edited May 11, 2009 by goanna

[thedawnpatrol]

Mike, That sounds interesting, you could be onto something, mine has no thermostats, but then neither did my Morris C8, but...............that did not had two water pumps!

 

Can anyone else confirm that I need Thermostats as Mike suggests ?

 

Jules

[Stefano]

As per WOT2-H parts list Feb 1942:

 

78E -8575-A Thermostat (water) assy. - in cylinder head 2 off

 

I doubt that the lack of thermostats in the system will really make that much of a difference, seeing as they are fixed in line with the radiator outlets. The only difference is that the engine will run cold without them - which is most definitely A Bad Thing, but seemingly not your most immediate problem. In any case, as the owners manual basically tells you to regulate the water temperature using the radiator blind, so I have my doubts whether they were always fitted. I agree with Richard, your radiator is probably silted up, presumably along with the water jackets. Your cooling system should take about 4 3/4 gallons of water, so if you can fill it up with significantly less you know that you've got a problem in that department. Also, does the system pressurize immediately on starting up (ie: with a stone cold engine), or does it only do it after a while? Heaven forbid the thought, but there could also be a crack in the block somewhere that's pressurizing one of the water jackets, so having a go with a gas test kit as suggested by The Catweazle would be a good idea. If you notice that there is contamination, it's feasable to rig up a separate radiator so that you can check one bank of cylinders at a time. It's a pain, but at least it narrows things down a bit. Finally, a couple of easy ones. a) Is the radiator cap in good nick? and b) Are the fan blades on the right way round? Don't laugh, a couple of weeks back, a mate of mine almost cooked his Stuart because the fans were on back to front. At least they were easy to get at, unlike nearly everything else in that blasted engine bay...

The clutch. It really shouldn't be slipped, because a bit of judder is inevitable. Feed it in at idle in 2nd gear (there's no real need to use first), and run it through the gears double declutching. Changing down from top to third needs a bootful of revs because there's a big gap between the ratios, but it's a pretty good 'box by WW2 standards, and you'll be getting clean changes in next to no time.

As for the brakes, I'm pretty impressed by mine, so presumably you've got a bit of work there. They're certainly a whole lot better than a CS8's, and remember, have no master cylinders to corrode, no wheel cylinders to leak, and no tubes to get bunged up...brilliant!

Let us know how you get on

[Richard Farrant]

Jules

 

Sounds like the header tank is being pressurised . Without thermostsats X 2 , the coolant rushes into the header tank unrestricted . The thermostsats in effect , provide a small port , where a metered amount of coolant flow is let by . Too much flow and the header tank cannot cope with it, becomes pressurised ,

 

Hi Mike,

 

Normally if no thermostats is in the system, the engine is overcooled, in fact it will take longer to warm up.

 

Something you might not have so much trouble with is Aus' is chalk deposits in your water, in Britain it is very prevalant ( due to water from bore holes in chalk areas) and is the cause of a many very choked rad cores.

[thedawnpatrol]

Well last night, although short of time, As it was suggested I fit Thermostates, I thought I would try an idea. I have no States to fit, but instead fitted two large washers with 15mm holes, therefor reducing the flow and as Goanna suggested allowing the rad to filter slower.

I fitted them where the Stats go, in the top of the heads.

Ran the engine, again at idle no problem, but when increasing to high revs, it was not as bad as without the restrictors, however as soon as I throttled back, up it all came in spurts and spots!

Perhaps my 'restrictors' were the wrong side of the pumps ?

 

So, Tonight I will try the Holts Rad flush!

 

I am most grateful to you guys for all your suggestions, it's quite reasuring to know we have this community of help and advise.

 

The saga continues!

 

Will it be at Trucks and Troops,? or will I have to use my Trusty old GPW!

 

Jules

[goanna]

As per WOT2-H parts list Feb 1942:

 

78E -8575-A Thermostat (water) assy. - in cylinder head 2 off

 

As for the brakes, I'm pretty impressed by mine, so presumably you've got a bit of work there. They're certainly a whole lot better than a CS8's, and remember, have no master cylinders to corrode, no wheel cylinders to leak, and no tubes to get bunged up...brilliant!

Let us know how you get on

 

Yes, we found the WOT2 brakes to be very effective . I once found a WOT2H abandoned in a paddock in NSW ( 1981) , in a field of lucern ... I approached the farmer and he gave the truck to me ! What amazed me was , despite being there for eons, the brakes still worked .

I removed the gearbox cover and found mass of ferric oxide , it looked like a huge mess, water had dribbled down the gear stick into the box. I had to remove the rear axle half shafts to move it . The truck was jammed on a big log and I spent hours freeing it on my own... struggling with jacks in a hot December . I had to borrow some 20" Bedford wheels to move it. All that work and I sold it for $100 ...

Mike

[goanna]

as they are fixed in line with the radiator outlets. !

 

 

UMM , I think they are actually in the INLET side , the coolant circulates from top tank to bottom tank .. or am I incorrect .

 

Mike

[goanna]

Hi Mike,

 

Normally if no thermostats is in the system, the engine is overcooled, in fact it will take longer to warm up.

 

Something you might not have so much trouble with is Aus' is chalk deposits in your water, in Britain it is very prevalant ( due to water from bore holes in chalk areas) and is the cause of a many very choked rad cores.

 

 

Hi Richard

 

No, I've never heard of that one .. ( I've heard of the chalk streams, the Itchen and Test being two ) and we don't have salt on the roads either ..YUK YUK .

 

Mineral deposits can occur ..depends on where you live I guess. Wouldn't it be nice if you found some Gold deposits in your radiator ! Around here , a hunded years ago.. hundreds of miners were digging like wombats .... many of them were Chinese. But the real gold was the massive trees ... big monstors.

[Stefano]

UMM , I think they are actually in the INLET side , the coolant circulates from top tank to bottom tank .. or am I incorrect .

 

Mike

 

Of course you're right, what I meant was that the thermostats are on the outlet side of the engine, going up to the rad..

[Tony B]

Being Fick! With such a complicated thermostat set up. Are they in the right way round?

[Stefano]

This is a simple one. The heat sensor side of a thermostat goes towards the engine. Remember that the only thing that a 'stat does is keep engine temperature constant. As the engine heats up after a cold start the thermostat stays closed so that the engine reaches running temperature as quickly as possible (engines don't like running cool, because the expansion rates of the various bits and pieces haven't stabilised). Once everything is nice and warm the 'stat opens and allows cooler water from the radiator into the system. As the coolant temperature drops the thermostat closes up again and the whole process starts again ad infinitum.. Usually, you'll find that there is a bleed hole that allows a mall passage of water though the 'stat regardless of whether it's open or closed. I'm not 100% sure what this does, but I suspect that it's to avoid creating an air bubble in the system.

Edited May 12, 2009 by Stefano