Albion WDHD 23S Restoration. Will's.

[Swill1952xs]

Yesterday a group of people came from The Albion Club to photograph my complete Albion. They seemed very impressed with the engine, which as usual, fired up straight away. That truck wants to be on the road. You just start it up, wait for the air pressure to build up to 100 psi, let the handbrake off and drive off with it. It's saying to me.... never mind the rust, lets go for a run up the road.

 

While they were visiting I took them to see the donor truck. One of them is going to copy a manual for the engine. Another of the visitors was a walking workshop manual in his own right. He took one look at the engine with the heads off and immediately said; the reason why the head gasket went is because the liner heights are wrong. Most of them are much too high, so they all need to come out. The height of the liners would weaken the gasket substantially as the fire ring would be well trapped, but weakened by the lack of support from the rest of the gasket behind it. One of the liners has a sloping edge where the gasket has created a step. It may also be that as it was one of the lowest liners, it could have been moving about, helping the edge to wear.

Compression would easily allow the slim fire ring to be pushed off the edge of the liner, causing it to fail very quickly. The liners are push fit dry liners, which should be fairly easy to remove according to them. Apparently they often are loose enough to come up with the pistons, and normally have to be clamped down. I was rather stunned that they presented me with a cardboard box, containing three cylinder liners for my engine. One had a little wear, and the other two had been honed out and looked like new. I assured them that I would only use them if absolutely necessary. Hopefully then; if someone else needs some desperately, there will still be some available. Apparently crankshaft bearings are not available, and to overcome this problem they are looking at having some of the con rods white metalled to help restore an engine they are working on.

 

I now have the sheet steel for the front, back and one side of the cab, so I now need to get the steelwork for it sand blasted so the rebuilding of the cab shell can go ahead. Sadly yesterday was about the only day when it peed down with rain. My nice new shiny steel sheets turned up on a dropside truck......... dripping with water. I commented to the driver about it, and he said if you had told them they would have wrapped it for you. I would have thought anyone with an ounce of common sense would have realised that sheet steel is crap once it has got wet. Start of the rust problem. :-(

 

I don't seem to be getting on very fast with the truck as spare time is very limited, but I have three more weeks holiday to come, so hopefully things will get done. Just wish my wife would win the lottery

[Swill1952xs]

As regards the oil filtration setup; or lack of it in this case; my visitors told me that they are in the process of fitting a full flow oil filter to an Albion engine. I discussed with them my thoughts on how it could be done, and I was told that there is a blanking plate on the side of the engine which covers two oil galleries. They are having a plate made up to replace this and fitting a remote oil filter, connected by hydraulic hoses. They desperately want totally clean engine oil circulating around their expensive restoration and will let me know if it is successful. They are also keen to use modern high quality detergent engine oils to eradicate the sludging problem.

On the subject of filtration......... they also told me that it is possible to get a modern fuel filter element to fit my filter housing, replacing the gauze and cloth one currently fitted......... better still... clean fuel too.

[gritineye]

All that sounds very encouraging Will, at least you're getting good knowledgeable advice now. Thanks for sharing this stuff.

[Guest catweazle (Banned Member)]

Well done mate thanks for the update.cw.

[Swill1952xs]

Pistons again..................

 

Got the barstewards out this afternoon........... it'll take more than a lump of rusty metal to beat me. :-D

I got them out by disconnecting one of the stuck ones, as there were two travelling in opposing directions. Loaded up the flywheel with me big springy bar, and put a bottle jack beteeen the front axle and the big end cap. That did the trick. :-D

 

Here are some pictures of the pistons as they were removed.........

 

 

 

Number two...........

 

 

Number three...........

 

Rusty enough for you.........they cleaned up very well, but one had a broken bottom oil control ring......... no, it wasn't me that broke it. The break was well rusted. The top rings have a spacer above the them, and one of these was broken too. They were probably fitted to allow the top ring to clear the wear ridge if they had been replaced after the bores had been used. What we used to call "Ridge dodgers".

 

 

They cleaned up well, but I need to take the gudgeon pins out to check they are free.

 

I have some pictures of the cylinder bores, but they don't show the extent of the corrosion that well. I think it actually looks worse than it is. The worst of the corrosion is right at the bottom of the cylinder bore. If you look closely, you can see what appears to be a step on the outer ring of the liner. If this turns out to be an eroded edge, then this one will have to be replaced too. This one is number two.

 

 

Apparently new big end shells aren't available, and the top shells are just going through the tinned surface. The top shell is different from the bottom in as much that the shells are located by a peg in the big end cap. As new shells aren't available; I had thought of drilling a new hole in the top bearing shell and inverting them, as the top shell always wears out first. I know it's a bit of a bodge, but it wont be doing millions of miles and should last ok. I doubt whether I could afford to have the shells reconditioned, so this may be the only option.

 

 

Hopefully I wont find any more horrors when I remove the remaining pistons. I will also need to remove the liners to reset the protrusion above the block. Number six has some nasty marks on the top face of the liner that will mean it will probably need to be replaced. The tops of the remaining liners will need cleaning and inspecting for wear or damage. At least now the engine turns, so that should make things a little easier and quicker. Still a lot of work though and it's distracting me from what I should really be doing............ getting on with the restoration of the complete truck, but I can't do both at the same time.

 

Wanna see some sludge........the bottom of the sump :-D

 

[Guest catweazle (Banned Member)]

Well done mate,ridge dodgers remember them i had a mobile boring bar ,we would do a landrover in a day new pistons etc more often we would glaze bust new rings with top dodger.I remember Cord rings ruddy marvellous,wonder if there still about.Big end shells get the plumbing tools out wipe yourself a new surface then handscrape to fit.

ok i know the second words off.Cheers for update.CW.

[Swill1952xs]

Well done mate,ridge dodgers remember them i had a mobile boring bar ,we would do a landrover in a day new pistons etc more often we would glaze bust new rings with top dodger.I remember Cord rings ruddy marvellous,wonder if there still about.Big end shells get the plumbing tools out wipe yourself a new surface then handscrape to fit.

ok i know the second words off.Cheers for update.CW.

 

I was wondering if it was possible to get the bearings re-tinned and line bored while clamped in the con rods. In theory, it should be easier than re metalling a con rod as there is a smaller amount of metal to deal with. I have been told that bearings aren't available, but I will try every source before I give up and resign myself to this shameful bit of bodgery I had in mind. Mrs Will keeps telling me she's going to win the lottery, but she's not sure when. Hope it's soon so I can decide how far I go restoring this engine.

[radiomike7]

I was wondering if it was possible to get the bearings re-tinned and line bored while clamped in the con rods. In theory, it should be easier than re metalling a con rod as there is a smaller amount of metal to deal with. I have been told that bearings aren't available, but I will try every source before I give up and resign myself to this shameful bit of bodgery I had in mind. Mrs Will keeps telling me she's going to win the lottery, but she's not sure when. Hope it's soon so I can decide how far I go restoring this engine.

 

Someone, somewhere will have some - have you tried Gosnays Engineering 01708740668 or Bob McCulloch 01925757731?

[Swill1952xs]

Someone, somewhere will have some - have you tried Gosnays Engineering 01708740668 or Bob McCulloch 01925757731?

 

Cheers for the phone numbers. I was going to try Bob McCulloch first as he was the one who sold me some head gaskets for this engine. :thumbsup:

[abn deuce]

It would be a shame to have compromise the rebuild that way . Perhaps with the World Wide reach of the WEB you might turn up the parts still , They can't have all been used up and junked , someone must have at least a donor engine laying in a forgotten corner .....think positive thoughts !!!

[Swill1952xs]

It would be a shame to have compromise the rebuild that way . Perhaps with the World Wide reach of the WEB you might turn up the parts still , They can't have all been used up and junked , someone must have at least a donor engine laying in a forgotten corner .....think positive thoughts !!!

 

You are probably right..........thanks for the encouragement. Rumour has it that there are a lot of parts stashed away in Oz. I haven't started searching yet, and I don't give up that easily.

[HotBed]

wot o will,

 

done any more on your engine rebuild ? or still trying to locate some parts ?

 

regards

[Swill1952xs]

wot o will,

 

done any more on your engine rebuild ? or still trying to locate some parts ?

 

regards

 

At the moment I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place, and everything has slowed to a crawl.

Unfortunately I'm now working from 8am to 6pm and alternate Saturdays, so I don't have a lot of useful spare time. I don't have access to a workshop or lifting equipment, so getting anything done is difficult. I prefer working from 2.30 in the mornings as we did earlier this year. I then have time in the afternoons to get a bit done, as I normally finish at 12:30.

I have some more holiday coming up and hope to get cracking again soon. I have had some more work done on the cab frames, and will be concentrating on that side of things for the forseeable future as I don't really have the time or money to do the engine as well; at the moment. So far, sand blasting and priming half of the cab has cost me 420 quid :shocked: , which is an obstacle in itself. If I can get the cab shell completed I will probably have to try and sort out the engine over the winter months.

At the moment, I've started work on the cab roof. I'm having to use the skin off of the complete truck, and the internal frame of the donor one. I have enough sheet stell to re-skin the back and one side of the cab, and the steel to make a new front panel............. then there's the compound curved bits........:???.

I will try and get some pictures of the cab roof asap.

 

Thanks for showing interest in my truck, it is appreciated. :thumbsup:

[Davie]

Good to hear you're still getting a bit done. Even if it has slowed to a crawl, every wee bit you do is progress. I recon it's definately good to get the cab/bodywork stuff done first, for me it's probably the bit I like least. Roll on the oily bits!

I take it the Albion boys at Biggar can't help with the engine parts?

Are you going to Beltring? It would be good to meet and blether about Albions.

All the best, Davie.

[HotBed]

i know how hard it is getting time to do things, with a three year old daughter and my wife does two nightshifts a week, i have had to book three days off last week to do bits on my lorry, being self employed it hurts a bit to be spending money and not earning it, or is that the farmer coming out in me again ooooh aaaarh :-D

[Degsy]

Stick with it Will, don't get disheartened, some day you will be able to look back over all the tribulations but with the satisfaction of having restored a very rare truck.

[abn deuce]

Although progress may be slow at times , There will be those days off or periods of getting lots of things done . It's a hobby after all , and lots of others are in the same way ... family time ,tight money , limited hobby time Don't give up We'll be here to look over your shoulder when asked , well some will be peeking all the time to tell the truth .

[FV1604A]

Hi Will,

You have really picked a great truck to restore there and she will be fabulous when she is done. I don’t know whether you are a member of the HCVS, but the Albion WD HD23N workshop was the featured truck last month in the club magazine.

Ian Maclean, Registrar of the Albion Clubs did an interesting piece well précis’d down , but containing things I didn’t know about these beautiful vehicles.

The cabs were seemingly made by Penman of Dumfries, the workshop bodies by Strachan, and the whole drive train was Albion-built from the EN257C engine to the double-drive rear bogies.

He reckons 10 x 23N and one 23S survive.

The works pic was of 55BK17.Only a few numbers away from the LWB cargo 55 BK 14 in post 7

Do you know the army census number of yours?

Was it from the BK or BL range?

 

The local TA army groups around Newcastle and South Shields had a few of the cargos, Beverley army museum had a nice example of the machinery version, and a few of the house-builders in the Newcastle region bought them straight from auction to use as site huts for ‘the lads’, usually being low-loaded onto the site and removed after the housing estate had been built.

 

Anyway, power to your elbow, it will take time, but keep the image in your mind of how she is going to look when she is on the road.

 

Would be very interested in the census number.

 

Thanks.

 

Mike

[Swill1952xs]

Hi Will,

You have really picked a great truck to restore there and she will be fabulous when she is done. I don’t know whether you are a member of the HCVS, but the Albion WD HD23N workshop was the featured truck last month in the club magazine.

Ian Maclean, Registrar of the Albion Clubs did an interesting piece well précis’d down , but containing things I didn’t know about these beautiful vehicles.

The cabs were seemingly made by Penman of Dumfries, the workshop bodies by Strachan, and the whole drive train was Albion-built from the EN257C engine to the double-drive rear bogies.

He reckons 10 x 23N and one 23S survive.

The works pic was of 55BK17.Only a few numbers away from the LWB cargo 55 BK 14 in post 7

Do you know the army census number of yours?

Was it from the BK or BL range?

 

The local TA army groups around Newcastle and South Shields had a few of the cargos, Beverley army museum had a nice example of the machinery version, and a few of the house-builders in the Newcastle region bought them straight from auction to use as site huts for ‘the lads’, usually being low-loaded onto the site and removed after the housing estate had been built.

 

Anyway, power to your elbow, it will take time, but keep the image in your mind of how she is going to look when she is on the road.

 

Would be very interested in the census number.

 

Thanks.

 

Mike

 

Thanks for showing an interest in my Albion. It is a fascinating vehicle to work on and I'm constantly finding out about more of the Albion "Foibles" as I dismantle it. There were some incredibly simple design features in the engine that make it very sturdy and easy to produce. Everything seems different from the standards of the day; and I personally think they were in their day; a very advanced vehicle. Some may not agree. I've certainly found some very interesting and surprising design features.

 

Ian Maclean and Paul Adams, came down recently to have a look at my truck. They were going to run a feature on it in the Albion club magazine, but unfortunately the pictures they took were of poor quality due to the weather on the day.

 

I'm well aware that there is only one HD23S in existance. That one is sitting in a field next to where I work.......... Sadly the Albion I bought as a donor vehicle was also an 'S'; but some bright spark decided to cut it in half in around 2002-3 and sell the axles for export. If it was who I think it was...... he had four or five 'N's that were almost too far gone to restore; that would have been a better source of supply. It really saddens and angers me as I saw my donor truck advertised when it was complete. The reason it never sold in its complete state was because initially it was ridiculously overpriced, and deteriorated more as a result. The price was then dropped to a level which still didn't attract any buyers, which is when it was cut in half. The chassis numbers of my complete truck and the donor one were only eight numbers apart. The donor one was built as a tipper too, but has some strange differences from the other one.

 

The registration number on the back is 85 BL 14. It was ordered by the Ministry if Supply in Feb 53 and completed in August 53. As you say, with a Penman Cab and Edbro three way tipper body.

[HotBed]

if the Albion turns out like your jag, it will be very good

 

regards

[Swill1952xs]

if the Albion turns out like your jag, it will be very good

 

regards

 

Well there's a cryptic message for you.......... it was a Daimler 420.........er... how do you know about that?????????

 

It took me five years to complete that one, two and a half thousand hours, five grand to do it, and another thirty grand as a divorce settlement. Doooh

 

:???

[Guest catweazle (Banned Member)]

how do you know about that?????????:???

Your ex wife told him.:rofl:

[HotBed]

Well there's a cryptic message for you.......... it was a Daimler 420.........er... how do you know about that?????????

 

It took me five years to complete that one, two and a half thousand hours, five grand to do it, and another thirty grand as a divorce settlement. Doooh

 

:???

 

i saw it once just after you were made redundant from ST,....... and it was through the window of the stores... nearly 20 yrs ago, you popped in for something.... it looked nice anyway :confused:

[HotBed]

Your ex wife told him.:rofl:

wash your mouth out monsieur :n00b: :-D

[gritineye]

Bit of a treat for you will, at 8.00 minutes from the start, unless I am very much mistaken

 

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/engineering-britains-superweapons/4od#2929722

Edited August 16, 2009 by gritineye