Albion WDHD 23S Restoration. Will's.

[Matador Steve]

Hi Will

 

Would be interesting to hear how you get on with the blasting co, I am going to need these services also. Keep the photos coming.

 

Steve

[Jimh]

:confused: I know a man with a guilotine.....

But even then that's often no good. The tipper body of the Sentinel body is lined with aluminium sheet. Order 8x4 sheets of the correct thickness to find that they now only supply 1.25m sheets. 49 inches. 1 inch wider than our guillotine. Rats. Had to crop it all with the nibbler. :argh:

[Swill1952xs]

Having had a weeks holiday has helped with progress on the restoration.

I've now de-skinned the rear cab panel and the n/s panel of the cab. The n/s looks to be the worst of the two cab sides so I decided to start on that one first. The lower front end is pretty badly rusted and will need work to replace the bottom end. I'm rather worried as to how I'm going to go about replacing the compound curve front corner as I know it wont be easy to make, and I've never attempted anything like this before. I think the repairs to the corner will be better done before the frame is sent away for sand blasting. In a way it's a good thing that I had to remove the skin from the front corner as there was no paint inside the enclosed part and that will enable me to get some rust protection on it for the future. Where there were two sections welded together, rust has forced the two sections apart and I've had to separate them and remove the heavy scale from between them so they can be welded back together as original. It would be almost impossible to dismantle it and weld it all back together to completely eradicate rust.

 

The engine on my donor vehicle has turned out to be a great disappointment. I took the rocker covers off to see what sort of state the inside of them was, only to find evidence of heavy condensation markings.

There wasn't anything in the inlet ports, as I expected to find, or hoped to find even, so that meant the reason why the engine wouldn't turn over was because the bores are rusted. I managed to turn the engine slightly and it seemed to move fairly easily initially, so I decided to give it a "Flick" on the starter. (I have filled the bores with gas oil) It turned about an eighth of a turn and is now so badly stuck that I can't turn it back. I've been trying with the help of some very heavy bars to move it by levering the clutch around through a hole in the bell housing. I suspect the only answer may be to remove the heads and hope the gaskets come off in one piece. Maybe with the sump off I will be able to persuade the pistons back down the bores so they can if possible be cleaned. This may now have to wait until I've had more time to improve the running of the engine in my complete truck.

I'm not prepared to give up on the donor engine though as they are rare enough to warrant restoration for the future. I just wish I could find a couple of head gaskets, but first I have to find some way of positively identifying the engine type. If it isn't an EN244C as fitted to the CX's then it may improve the spares situation as I think this is a somewhat later engine. Hopefully I will come across an engine number some where on it.

 

I will try and get some photos on here of the work in progress, but at the moment, for some annoying reason, Photobucket wont allow me to download pictures to the forum. :computerrage:

The next stage is acquiring a sound deadener panel (Bitumen sheet) to fit inside the back panel and sending more parts away for sand blasting. Hopefully the parts being done aren't going to cost mega bucks.

I will keep you posted about progress.

[Swill1952xs]

I think I may have cracked this :argh: Photobucket thing. Nothing wrong apart from a different procedure, so here goes---------

 

 

This was the Albion I found out about near Petworth belonging to a chap called Ben. By the time I had seen it advertised it had been for sale for some time and he'd decided to put an AEC 760 engine in it, put a flat body on it and use it for transporting scrap cars. This is an "N" chassis.

 

When it was for sale it still had the 10.4 litre petrol engine in it, about 5,000 miles on the clock and he wanted 1500 quid for it.

 

It was as you can see; in excellent condition, although the wing mountings were in need of work, which is why the front wings are off.

I've tried contacting him to see how he got on with the engine transplant but had no reply.

 

The next picture is a part I've tried contacting David Crouch for. I've E Mailed him before for a complete carrier, but he never answers E Mails. Ringing him is a pain as he is hard to get hold of.

 

 

 

 

The last picture was obviously with the engine removed. After he took this picture, I found out that he had to move out of his yard a few days later. I've e mailed him, but he seems to have vanished from the face of the earth. Oh how I wish I could have bought it.

 

 

My wife wasn't too happy when I first saw it and said that regardless of whether I could afford it; I just had to have it. Now you can see why. It would have been a simple job to fit the cab to mine, the spare wheel carrier was there, some good tyres............ in fact 90% of what was needed to get mine on the road. It would have reduced the restoration time to weeks rather than months. :-(

[Swill1952xs]

Well.......... I've at last found out what engine is fitted to my donor Albion.

 

I was quite excited when I found the small brass plate on the side of the engine as I had drawn a blank with information on the EN244C engine, as fitted to the CX22.

My engine is an EN253A, obviously much later. I went home and put a search on the model number......... and guess what.......... absolutely nuffin. Albion paint.........Albion double glazing.........Albion football club............ Albion forklifts.......Albion cooker door gaskets and absolutely :argh: all about my engine. The Albion website is as it's always been, about as much use as a chocolate teapot. I tried finding a manual for my truck on the Albion Archive. The first person I contacted was the wrong person. The second was on holiday. I tried contacting him on his return and got no reply. This is definitely the downside of owning an Albion:banghead:

All I really found out about my engine is that it was 120hp as opposed to the EN244C at 100. I say was, because it still refuses to turn, in spite of some major persuasion tactics. Next will come the sledge hammer treatment. I will load up the flywheel with a large springy bar and then try to knock the flywheel around to start it moving. I'll not be beaten by a chunk of obstinate metal. :???

 

I can't do much to the restoration part of the job at the moment until I start getting some parts for the next stage. I need bits back from the sandblasters, sheet steel for the back and sides of the cab, a "Rolastep" edge setting tool for the panelwork, and a sheet of sound deadener for the cab back panel. I have some paint which will help me get on while I wait for the other parts. Never mind........I'll get there in the end.

[Swill1952xs]

Just a few pictures of the problems found on the n/s cab frame and panels.

 

The first two show the rust inside the box section created by the outer panel.

 

 

The flat section with the holes on it are where the front panel is bolted on, and the second shows the extent of the corrosion at the base. This will have to be replaced.

 

The next two pictures are of the outer sheet steel which again will have to be replaced. I will have a go at making a new panel, but as it's a compond curve, it may be beyond my abilities. The panel is beyond salvage.

 

 

 

Should be fun.

[gritineye]

No doubt you have a plan Will, but I if I had to re-make that panel, me being stubborn, I would spend some time shaping a bit of seasoned wood, say about 9" x 3" to fit pretty tightly in side it, then I would clamp or screw the new metal to it and bend it round, making V cuts where necessary with a thin 4" cut off disc, a few small holes for screws into the wood to hold each bit in place whilst tack welding. (Make it oversize and trim to fit when all shaping is done) Finish welding, a bit of adjustment my be needed after welding to get it snug on the wood, then fill and prime, it works for me, and cheap.

[Swill1952xs]

No doubt you have a plan Will, but I if I had to re-make that panel, me being stubborn, I would spend some time shaping a bit of seasoned wood, say about 9" x 3" to fit pretty tightly in side it, then I would clamp or screw the new metal to it and bend it round, making V cuts where necessary with a thin 4" cut off disc, a few small holes for screws into the wood to hold each bit in place whilst tack welding. (Make it oversize and trim to fit when all shaping is done) Finish welding, a bit of adjustment my be needed after welding to get it snug on the wood, then fill and prime, it works for me, and cheap.

 

Thanks for the encouragement Bernard............ er....Sir. :-D

 

The actual radius of the vertical curve will be easy to make as I can use one of the central Ribs I've removed from the front panel to check the curvature of the cab frame when I replace the bottom of that, and to make a former for the outer skin.

If I can make a former; hopefully it will do both sides as the vertical curvature appears symmetrical. The next problem is determining the radius of the cab corner to make it match the other side. I reckon the best way to work that out is by cutting out circles in cardboard and checking the fit.

I had also thought that if the corner radius was a standard size....whether I could cut a length of thin wall steel tubing (Exhaust pipe) to make the radiused corner, and then weld flat steel to it. (Spot, stitch or continuous) It may be possible to produce an even curve by your method of cutting 'V's out of the edges and re-welding it again.

Multiple hacksaw cuts at even distances should do the job. It would be nice to be able to make the panel in one piece, but I don't have a wheeling machine or anyone that owns one that owes me a favour. I will certainly give it a go. I had also thought of the same technique when making outer wings for the truck.

The next little challenge after that is making wire edges for the wings. Like many more of us back garden restorers (Nothing personal Andy :-D) we haven't got a lot of time or money, but loads of stubborn inginuity that will get us there in the end. I'll give mine and your idea a go and if all else fails I may have to get someone to make it for me.

Thanks for the advice. :thumbsup:

[Swill1952xs]

I've been put back on night driving duties again this week so I finish work about one o'clock in the afternoon.

 

I decided to spend the afternoon attempting to free of the siezed donor truck engine. I filled the bores to the brim with gas oil again, and put a jack under the clutch housing pushing against the rotation. Put a big steel bar with a scaffold pole on the end; through the bell housing aperture. Loaded that up to put even more rotational pressure on the clutch.

I then put a long pointed bar in the next hole round...........and beat the crap out of it trying to turn the engine backwards...........14lb sledge hammer.................and guess what................ I broke the :argh:in' hammer. The head came off. New hammer, fibre glass handle and now it's broken.

And that bloo*y engine just won't move at all. If only it would turn back a little to where it started moving, then I may be able to free it off. As it is now it looks like a strip down job.............. probably next winter. :-( Doooh

[Johnny]

Have you tried the hot oil trick?

Heat oil to very hot then pour some into each of the bores and leave for a few minutes.

The heat expands everything a bit which should help to break the seal/rust and also helps the oil to penetrate.

I've heard of some very stubborn engines being shifted this way!

Probably easier and more effective if the heads are removed.

 

It was demonstrated nicely on Salvage Squad on TV a few years back when they managed to get a siezed Gypsy Moth engine moving.

[Swill1952xs]

Have you tried the hot oil trick?

Heat oil to very hot then pour some into each of the bores and leave for a few minutes.

The heat expands everything a bit which should help to break the seal/rust and also helps the oil to penetrate.

I've heard of some very stubborn engines being shifted this way!

Probably easier and more effective if the heads are removed.

 

It was demonstrated nicely on Salvage Squad on TV a few years back when they managed to get a siezed Gypsy Moth engine moving.

 

Thanks for the suggestion. I would be happy to remove the heads and sump and remove the pistons by disconnecting the con rods.......... if only I could get some head gaskets. I had thought that if the gaskets were Copper asbestos type and would come off undamaged, I would try putting them back on using something like red Hermetite. Trouble is that if they get damaged in any way, I'm stuffed big time. :-(

[Johnny]

Are there places that could make a one off gasket?

Gasket material of most types and thicknesses is available in surprisingly large sheets, and I'm sure it could be copper faced after being cut.

If you had the remains of the old gasket as a template then you should be able to get one made.

Are there places that can do this, or have I just found the gap in the market with which to make my fortune?!?

 

Good luck with this fantastic project, it sound's like the donor engine will have to come apart anyway when you get it moving, so it might be wise to take the heads off anyway just in case there is anything solid in the bores stopping it from moving.

[Guest catweazle (Banned Member)]

There are companys that make one offs but i dont have any names to hand.

[N.O.S.]

The next little challenge after that is making wire edges for the wings.

 

I used the following superbodge on the Constructor front wings -

 

Concrete Reinforcing rod of correct diameter welded to edge of panel.

 

You do need to be very careful with the welding to prevent distortion, but it is a really quick method and the end result is very strong.

[Swill1952xs]

I used the following superbodge on the Constructor front wings -

 

Concrete Reinforcing rod of correct diameter welded to edge of panel.

 

You do need to be very careful with the welding to prevent distortion, but it is a really quick method and the end result is very strong.

 

To give your tip a politically correct title; it's a (Permanent improvised repair, or P.I.R.) :-D

 

It might not look quite right, but wired edges are an excellent rust trap, so your idea could well be better in the long run.

[Stefano]

Try the East Anglian Sealing Company Ltd http://www.easco.co.uk/ ,they seem to be able to do one off gaskets.

Good luck with the restoration, it will be spectacular when finished!

Stef

[Swill1952xs]

Try the East Anglian Sealing Company Ltd http://www.easco.co.uk/ ,they seem to be able to do one off gaskets.

Good luck with the restoration, it will be spectacular when finished!

Stef

 

This looks to be a good site. Many thanks for your help, and I will contact them when time permits. :thumbsup:

[Swill1952xs]

Well.... good news and not so good news.

 

First the good news.......... I've located a pair of cylinder head gaskets for my Albion EN 253 A engine in the donor truck. They weren't that hard to find really. I have to order them tomorrow from a chap called Bob Mc Culloch, who advertises in the Classic and Vintage Commercials magazine. Sixty pounds plus vat and postage. At last I can pull the heads from the engine and remove the pistons if it still wont turn. It will give me the chance to look at the bores and see if they are useable. If not, I may restore the engine at a later date. It would be sad not to do something with it as they are getting pretty rare now. I'm beginning to see immaculately restored forties and fifties Albions fitted with Volvo and Mercedes engines. That tells you something.

 

And finally......... had a call from the people sand blasting my cab parts today. They should be done now. I was a little surprised at how much they wanted to charge me.......... 325 + vat :shocked::shocked:.

When I took the parts in I explained to them I would pay cash.... ie no bill. When I told them today I was surprised by the amount and it would take a few days to get cash from the hole in the wall, they said I could pay by cheque. I said I was paying by cash.......... no vat......... no bill and hoped it would be less than that. To cut a long story short, they are now charging me 275.00 .............. cash........ :n00b:

 

I hope to be painting some of the parts soon :yay: and will post up pictures

[AndyFowler]

Looking forward to that mate ! :-D

[chevpol]

sorry to but in, but whilst I was looking through my slides taken in mid 1980's I found this.

 

Is it still about?

 

Mark :cool:

[Swill1952xs]

Here are some photos of the cab base and bulkhead parts that were sandblasted and painted last week.

 

 

 

 

 

They made a very good job of doing it and it is well painted with a glossy zinc primer. Some of the more visible parts will need some attention to the surfaces to disguise the pitting left by the rust.

Other parts will need new edges on the panels like the one below.

 

 

 

 

This is one of the floor sections of the rear floor panels behind the seats. I will probably make a new edge and spot weld it on to the old panel. Not original but the rivet counters wont know any different.

[Swill1952xs]

Had another crack at freeing off the donor engine this afternoon and gave up.

When I looked at the engine all the cylinders had lost the gas oil I put in them bar numbers two and three, suggesting that the pistons were siezed in the bores and had sufficient rust to stop the gas oil escaping into the sump as the others had done.

 

I now have head gaskets for the engine so I decided to take the front cylinder head off to see what state the bores were in, and whether there were any other problems I didn't know about. I should have tried to start it when I bought it in 2003. It may have just about been ok at that time, but I never bothered as I've never known a diesel sieze up through standing. My complete truck engine stood without running for eight years and started like someone had driven it the day before.

 

Here are some pictures of what I found, starting with the corroded inside of the rocker cover.

 

Next the very dry and again corroded rockers. Two of the valves were stuck too, but I freed them off.

 

 

The next picture is a good illustration of the subject of "Straight" grade engine oils and the dear old sludge problems. The retun oil gallery for the cam followers (Tappets) was completely blocked, preventing oil returning from the rockers getting to the camshaft and followers. An excellent recipie for for early wear to take place.

 

 

 

Sadly at the moment I haven't any pictures with the head off as I ran out of time today. One of the head bolts was an absolute sod to get out, and one of the studs next to it was very stuck. I'm beginning to wonder if this engine has suffered a head gasket failure prior to being pensioned off. It took a ten ton jack under one corner of the head to start it moving, combined with squirting WD40 down the holes and tapping the studs from side to side with a hammer. (Nuts on the studs of course)

The head has lifted by about a quarter of an inch, and hopefully the full extent of the problem will be revealed on Tuesday when I will finish work early. I'll put up some more photos of what I find.

 

Don't miss the next thrilling instalment. (Thrilling and possibly disappointing :-( )

[Swill1952xs]

'Ere, tell ya what.......... I found another Albion peculiarity today when I was stripping the engine. I didn't think a thermostat was fitted to HD 23 engines. I discovered that the thermostat is on the radiator. It appears that coolant is circulated back to the engine via an external pipe and when working temperature is reached, the water is diverted through the radiator.

 

This may at first not sound unusual, but most thermostats trap the water inside the engine and the thermostat is normally in the water jacket of the cylinder head. The Albion set up works the same as modern vehicles do with the thermostat that has a plate on the bottom to divert water flow.

 

In some ways HD 23's were somewhat ahead of their time with their designs.

[Swill1952xs]

sorry to but in, but whilst I was looking through my slides taken in mid 1980's I found this.

 

Is it still about?

 

Mark :cool:

 

Wassat fing then? Uuuh? It looks like a Scammell cab with a CX bonnet and an HD23 radiator. What do you or anyone else know about it. It's certainly a hybrid if ever I saw one. :shocked:

[Swill1952xs]

Just another note on the donor Albions engine......... the original seller (In Lancashire) in 1999 stated in the advert that the truck ran and drove. I bought it off David Crouch in 2003 and never heard it running as I assumed that it still ran. My main concern was the cab panels. It must have been running when he sold it to me as he said it was a good engine. I wonder if he meant it was a good engine the last time he drove it, or whether it was a good engine before it went wrong?

The answer to that I will never know. :???

 

 

This was my donor truck before it was butchered.

Edited April 26, 2009 by Swill1952xs