Simon Daymond Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 looking good so far. I made a wooden former to make the N/S & O/S front corners for the militant, then clamped the metal and hammered away, tidied the finished panel with a grinder. I'm always on the look out for things to bend metal around, the four post ramp at work would have been perfect to form my centre wheel arches, as the edge on the ramps was the same profile, didn't realise until I'd had them made (incorrectly) by a friend at his work. For your wings, couldn't you try cutting a profile, of the outer edge, out of a large sheet of steel but with extra metal , then working a radius into the extra piece of metal with a hammer etc, then weld the entire thing onto a flat sheet of steel? Does that make sense? You don't need to try and make the wheel arch in one go out of a sheet of steel, but instead make it out of two bits and weld it together, use the grinder to tickle it, bit of filler to perfect it, and job done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swill1952xs Posted April 26, 2009 Author Share Posted April 26, 2009 looking good so far. I made a wooden former to make the N/S & O/S front corners for the militant, then clamped the metal and hammered away, tidied the finished panel with a grinder. I'm always on the look out for things to bend metal around, the four post ramp at work would have been perfect to form my centre wheel arches, as the edge on the ramps was the same profile, didn't realise until I'd had them made (incorrectly) by a friend at his work. For your wings, couldn't you try cutting a profile, of the outer edge, out of a large sheet of steel but with extra metal , then working a radius into the extra piece of metal with a hammer etc, then weld the entire thing onto a flat sheet of steel? Does that make sense? You don't need to try and make the wheel arch in one go out of a sheet of steel, but instead make it out of two bits and weld it together, use the grinder to tickle it, bit of filler to perfect it, and job done. It's strange you should comment about finding something to bend steel around in the yard. The mechanic I work with said exactly the same when we were making up body sections for my works van. You can usually find something to bend things around to make a shape. Where I had my workshop a few years ago we had a special Holly tree that was perfect for 'resetting' exhaust pipes when they wouldn't quite fit. :-D As regards to making the front corners of the cab, I have several ideas how to get the shape. I have thought about buying steel tubing the same diameter as the curvature of the corner, cutting a quadrant of the pipe to get an even curve and welding sheet steel to either side of the pipe section. I may still need a former to do it. I will be able to use one of the spine sections of the front panel to get the frontal curvature right. As for the front wings; there is enough of them remaining to get hole positions from, for the mountings, and then I will build them in the same way as you did yours. I may also make the front wings in two halves, as I have the same problem as you, in as much that I don't have anyone to help hold large awkward parts. Thanks for taking an interest and your advice. :thumbsup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Daymond Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 No probs, the spare pair of hands is always an issue. It's amazing what you can turn out when you try, even if you make a bugger of it to start. The militant wings were a learning curve; the first took far longer than the rest, the last was much quicker and a much better than the rest. It's always the way you learn as you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekawrecker Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Wassat fing then? Uuuh? It looks like a Scammell cab with a CX bonnet and an HD23 radiator. What do you or anyone else know about it. It's certainly a hybrid if ever I saw one. :shocked: I'm pretty sure I saw this about 20 years ago at the 'Doune Motor Co' near Stirling and I was told it was used by the Albion Works Service Dept in Scotstoun, Glasgow. This might explain why it's a hybrid! I think it looks like it's based on a CX24S, maybe with 'other bits' that were lying around the factory added on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevpol Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 I'm pretty sure I saw this about 20 years ago at the 'Doune Motor Co' near Stirling and I was told it was used by the Albion Works Service Dept in Scotstoun, Glasgow.This might explain why it's a hybrid! I think it looks like it's based on a CX24S, maybe with 'other bits' that were lying around the factory added on. that was where it was photographed, couldnt remember where it was!!!! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swill1952xs Posted April 28, 2009 Author Share Posted April 28, 2009 Well....... as promised, I managed to get some time on my donor Albions engine this afternoon. With a lot of persuasion, I managed to get the front head off the engine, and found exactly what I had expected. The biggest clue was the badly carbon coated cylinder head bolt next to no. 2 cylinder. On trying to remove the head I found the head stud next to the sludged up cam follower trough to be well and truly stuck in the head as well. I freed it by jacking the head up with a ten ton bottle jack, lifting it as far as it would go and then pulling it back down with a nut on the stuck stud. (Try saying that when you've had a few :-D) Large amounts of gas oil down beside the stud helped. This is what I found.......... As you can see, the gasket had blown between no.2 cylinder and a waterway. The next picture shows the failed "Fire ring" seal on no. 3. This is where copper asbestos sandwich head gaskets; have a major weakness. Both cylinders two and three had rusted bores, but number three was in a very bad state. I used the rounded end of a hacksaw blade to scrape the rust off both cylinder walls, and it looks like no. 2 so far is ok. No. 3 cleaned up well considering how bad it was, but as yet I still haven't managed to get the piston in 3 to move back down the bore. No. 3 was on the way up as far as I could see, so I need to get it back down again. I'm hoping the bores will be ok as the part exposed to air cleaned up well, so I just hope where the piston sits will clean up equally well. Bore wear is virtually nil. I'm feeling a little more optimistic now. One thing that did come to light when the head was off was that no.2 piston has had contact with one of the valves at some time, and has left an indent in the piston crown. No.1 bore has condensation rust haze on it but nothing serious. I'm in two minds as to whether to remove the rear cylinder head as well. If it still wont free up I will probably take that one off too. The camshaft had a fair bit of rust on it caused by water ingress and will probably need a good clean up. It's easy to get to though, because the cam followers come off with the cylinder head. It has push rods about four inches long......... How bizzare. I'll let you know if I have any luck freeing the engine off. Hoping to have another crack at it on Saturday if I can find the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Daymond Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 oh joy, at least you didn't have to cut through the head bolts with a hacksaw blade! Although it's still a problem, isn't it good to take the head off and find that it's only the gasket blown? I've struggled in the past when the gasket goes and blows carbon up into the head making it virtually impossible to get the bolt to undo. I'd take the other head off as well, that way you know where you are at. Are you ok for head gaskets etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swill1952xs Posted April 28, 2009 Author Share Posted April 28, 2009 oh joy, at least you didn't have to cut through the head bolts with a hacksaw blade! Although it's still a problem, isn't it good to take the head off and find that it's only the gasket blown? I've struggled in the past when the gasket goes and blows carbon up into the head making it virtually impossible to get the bolt to undo. I'd take the other head off as well, that way you know where you are at. Are you ok for head gaskets etc? Hi Simon, the only reason I stripped the engine was because I managed to get some head gaskets from a man who advertises in the Classic and Vintage Commercials magazine. His name is Bob McCulloch, who does pistons bearings and gaskets for obsolete engines. His phone number (In England) is 01925-757731. A very helpful man. Including carriage and VAT they cost me seventy eight pounds. The remaining gaskets can easily be replaced with silicone, and the exhaust ones re used. I don't know what sort of seals are used but I would imagine they would be possible to get from bearing suppliers. Having seen the crap inside the top end of the engine, I just hope that the bottom end is ok. It will be a good idea to take the sump off any way, and give the whole inside of the engine a clean up. The engine in my restoration project truck is a less powerful version of this engine. The EN244 is 100hp, and the EN253A engine would be a good upgrade to 125 hp. The difference being a longer stroke in the 253. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Daymond Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 glad you are finding the bits you need, it's amazing just how much stuff is around. Are you sticking with the original engine or fitting the donor? Will it make any difference to the speed? The militant is 30mph flat out, it takes a bit of getting used to, but after a while it's quite nice watching others rush by, whilst I plod on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swill1952xs Posted April 28, 2009 Author Share Posted April 28, 2009 glad you are finding the bits you need, it's amazing just how much stuff is around. Are you sticking with the original engine or fitting the donor? Will it make any difference to the speed? The militant is 30mph flat out, it takes a bit of getting used to, but after a while it's quite nice watching others rush by, whilst I plod on. I would like to fit the engine from the donor truck; one for the extra power, and secondly it has an "In line" air compressor which will be a neater installation than the current engine which has a chain driven compressor offset from the front of the engine. The in line version is direct drive from the injector pump shaft. The offset independant compressor has to have part of the engine cover cut away as it wont fit inside the original covers. The complete truck also has power steering fitted which will be another problem to overcome if I fit the donor engine. Albion engines don't have pulleys on the front. The fan drives off the timing gears......... :??? (See Davie's Albion CX22 restoration pictures. His engine is the same as mine externally) I would also hope that with the longer stroke engine, it would still have the same top speed. I'm not certain, but the spec sheet for the truck gives an average top speed over 100 miles, as 27 mph. These Albions have a two speed secondary (Not transfer) gearbox, and I was wondering if the gears in that can be reversed to give a higher top speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Daymond Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 power steering!! You need the steering to be heavy to get your muscles working, I set off to York the other week, whilst the passengers were wrapped in many layers of clothing, I was down to my T shirt due to the effort of getting the militant around the corners:) Doesn't help that you are seated next to an 11.3 litre radiator, had to open the windows at one point, it was lovely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swill1952xs Posted April 28, 2009 Author Share Posted April 28, 2009 power steering!! You need the steering to be heavy to get your muscles working, I set off to York the other week, whilst the passengers were wrapped in many layers of clothing, I was down to my T shirt due to the effort of getting the militant around the corners:) Doesn't help that you are seated next to an 11.3 litre radiator, had to open the windows at one point, it was lovely. Power steering will be fitted if possible. I might have wanted to show off my muscles once.......... when I was your age........... but I'm fast approaching 57 and need me luxuries. I was thinking of fitting a heater too.........an' its 'avin' lectric screenwash, don't want hand pumps...... too energetic. :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Daymond Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 ha ha, thanks for that, I was starting to feel old Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest catweazle (Banned Member) Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 Power steering will be fitted if possible. I might have wanted to show off my muscles once.......... when I was your age........... but I'm fast approaching 57 and need me luxuries. I was thinking of fitting a heater too.........an' its 'avin' lectric screenwash, don't want hand pumps...... too energetic. :-D Dont blame you mate its suposed to be fun,thanks for keeping us up to speed,its proving interesting some of us can feel the pain:-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swill1952xs Posted May 2, 2009 Author Share Posted May 2, 2009 Talking of pain.......... today, a 14lb sledgehammer bounced and trapped my thumb under the handle. :argh:I now have a thumb with a half purple nail and it feels like one of those neon warning beacons........ like the airport ones. :-( Still it matches my index finger that I hit with a bar the other day. :argh: Update on the engine.......... I removed the back cylinder head this afternoon. The gasket was blowing but not completely failed like the front one. All the pistons and bores were as they should be, meaning that pistons two and definitely three were probably stuck in the bores. Two looked as though it was possibly free, so I put a bar in the clutch and put it under pressure so it was pushing the engine backwards, got a block of wood and tried hammering the piston downwards to try and free it. No way is that going to move. Next stage is to drop the sump, slacken the big ends on two and three and see if the engine will turn. I thought it would have moved using that technique..... unless there are other problems which haven't surfaced yet. Maybe the crank is siezed on a big end bearing........... who knows :??? Anyone know where I can get a 33mm Allen Key to undo the sump bungs..:-D.......... I haven't measured it but it looks about that size :??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 33mm??...:shocked: wash your mouth out, this is a British restoration you're doing Will! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiomike7 Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Anyone know where I can get a 33mm Allen Key to undo the sump bungs..:-D.......... I haven't measured it but it looks about that size :??? 33.02mm is the AF size for 3/4 W,7/8 BSF, weld a nut onto a bolt to make a cheap tool or try a wheelnut which is often 7/8 BSF on older vehicles and long enough to go in the bung and take a socket or spanner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swill1952xs Posted May 3, 2009 Author Share Posted May 3, 2009 (edited) 33mm??...:shocked: wash your mouth out, this is a British restoration you're doing Will! Sorry Bernard......... er..... Sir 1- 5/16ths, might even be as big as an inch an an arf. :-D http://www.hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?t=12865 This is where the metric bit came from............ bit of a wind up. Edited May 3, 2009 by Swill1952xs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swill1952xs Posted May 18, 2009 Author Share Posted May 18, 2009 Sorry Bernard......... er..... Sir 1- 5/16ths, might even be as big as an inch an an arf. :-D http://www.hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?t=12865 This is where the metric bit came from............ bit of a wind up. I measured the sump plug as best possible, and it's either 1-7/16ths or 37mm. Anyone got one in their pocket :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swill1952xs Posted May 18, 2009 Author Share Posted May 18, 2009 I've been contacted over the weekend by the Albion Club who would like to photograph my Albion for a feature write up in their club magazine. They are coming from Scotland to have a look at an Albion that has had an AEC engine fitted to it. It sounds like the one I tried to buy from the chap in West Sussex. I tried contacting him to see how he got on fitting it; but never had any replies to my E mails. Sounds as though he was successful. The people who are coming down have also told me they have a couple of spare cylinder liners to fit my donor engine if I need them. They have also offered to copy part of the HD57 manual that covers the engine. I haven't done a great deal to my restoration recently as I was unwell on my weekend off and worked last weekend. Never mind, it will be nice to see the lads from Scotland again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swill1952xs Posted May 24, 2009 Author Share Posted May 24, 2009 An update on the saga of the donor engine. This afternoon I had another bash (Literally) at freeing off the stuck pistons in my Albion engine. Still no joy, so I decided to take the sump off. After removing umpteen bolts and studs, most of which were either loose or had stripped threads in the nuts; I finally got the sump off. As expected, there was a small amount of water in the bottom of the sump, and plenty of creamy thick sludge. As pistons two and three are the big offenders, I had a look from the bottom to see what was going on. Where the water has run down the bores past the pistons; it has left some quite substantial rust streaks below the pistons, stopping them from moving down the bores. Problem is, number two wants to go up, number three wants to go down! Number two wont go up because number three wont go down, and vice versa. Number three has a clean bore above the piston and seems to "Rock" in the cylinder; suggesting that it should with a bit of luck come up and out of the top. That should then enable me to persuade number two up its bore to be removed from the top also. It just remains to be seen whether the bores are damaged beyond being serviceable. Sorry am I boring you :-D The crank shows no external evidence of siezure, but it will be interesting to see what sort of state the bearing shells are in. It's fascinating stripping this engine, as I can't believe how simply its made. No fancy castings with intricate bored galleries for oilways. No external oil filters. (Needs something done about that :??? )The engine has an oil pump which feeds the crank via a large diameter tube interlinking the main bearings. Oil for the big ends comes from the main bearing journals. The big pipe goes to the back main bearing and has a pipe connected to the outside of the block. This then feeds the camshaft bearings and rocker gear. The cylinder block is seperate from the crankcase, and it is fitted with dry liners. Everything on the front of the engine including the fan, is driven by a hefty triplex chain. Camshaft, injector pump and compressor, dynamo and water pump and fan. There are no external pullies whatsoever, no belts to break, and nowhere to drive the power steering pump from.............. dooh :??? Spose you cant have it all ways. There are a few plates on the timing cover that may make it possible to fit a direct drive power steering pump. I will try to get some pictures of the underside of the engine as soon as possible, then you will see what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFowler Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 I'm looking forward to seeing the photos Will ! :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotBed Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 hi will, with regards to your last post and the lack of an oil filter, a friend of mine knows of someone that takes the british military ww2 style cannister oil filter and cuts the bottom off and installs a modern screw on filter inside it and pops the bottom back on hiding it completely. pop up to stinkers park next weekend, we will be up in the corner by the wood, tea coffee or a beer on tap if you like regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swill1952xs Posted May 24, 2009 Author Share Posted May 24, 2009 hi will, with regards to your last post and the lack of an oil filter, a friend of mine knows of someone that takes the british military ww2 style cannister oil filter and cuts the bottom off and installs a modern screw on filter inside it and pops the bottom back on hiding it completely. pop up to stinkers park next weekend, we will be up in the corner by the wood, tea coffee or a beer on tap if you like regards Thanks for the reply. This engine doesn't have any form of external oil filter whatsoever. I'm hoping to find a way of interrupting the oil supply from the pressure side of the lubrication system so that at least some of the oil is filtered. That way all the oil will have passed through a filter at some stage, and it should help reduce the amount of liquid borne contaminants. As they say.......... anything is better than nothing at all. There are companies that make remote oil filter kits that could be adapted, or perhaps I could use a filter mounting off something else and plumb it in using standard hydraulic hoses. The bottom section of the sump has a removable plate to gain access to the oil strainer. It probably wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility to modify the oil supply tube to the main bearings, and fit an oil filter actually inside the sump. ie cut the oil supply pipe, braze some hydraulic couplings on to the ends and pipe it to a filter fixed to the oil strainer housing. It wouldn't be that much different, changing an oil filter; to the normal procedure of dropping the sump base to clean the strainer. Something for me to ponder over. I will try to get to "Stinkers Park" next weekend and catch up with you. What vehicle will you have there? I went to Laughton yesterday and hunted down Gritineye, Julezee101? and a chap called Paul, but I wasn't sure of his forum name, if he's a member. I walked up to Bernard and said "Hello...... I'm looking for a miseable git that owns a Scammell" (An old joke from when I joined the forum and let off about a person with a Scammell at Laughton......... turned out to be a forum member........er .......Bernard :red: ) Nice to meet some forum members face to face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotBed Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 big sand coloured k6, probably be the only sand coloured lorry there regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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