radiomike7 Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 The usual complaint, which I have seemingly just cured, is noisy vibrating in 5th and 6th, also sometimes, accompanying this, is a low harsh jangley rumble at low speed, like tickover in 2nd. It seems to me that the propshaft angle has a great deal to do with this, by "wiggling" the loose flange on the shaft, it must be just the prop speed that stops it happening in the lower gears on the road, as the resonance and harmonics change with the revs. It is about time you designed an Explorer propshaft using a pair of CV joints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted August 13, 2010 Author Share Posted August 13, 2010 It is about time you designed an Explorer propshaft using a pair of CV joints. Righto Mike I'll get on with it straight away...:readbook: .....:help: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted August 13, 2010 Author Share Posted August 13, 2010 only just managed to touch top gear for a moment as i had to stop and turn round but you get the idea I've heard a lot worse, you never know your luck, it may get quieter at higher speeds when warm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted August 13, 2010 Author Share Posted August 13, 2010 (edited) Righto Mike I'll get on with it straight away...:readbook: .....:help: OK chaps I think I've got the hang of it now.....we should all be drivingly interconnected by a plurality of ballsh*t. by next week..:nut: A propeller shaft assembly includes a substantially cylindrical hollow propeller shaft, a stub shaft and a constant velocity joint having inner race and an outer race drivingly interconnected by a plurality of balls. The stub shaft has a first end fixed to the propeller shaft and a second end drivingly coupled to the inner race. The second end includes a portion positioned adjacent to the inner race that defines an outer diameter greater than an outer diameter defined by the interface between the inner race and the plurality of balls. The bending stiffness of a propeller shaft assembly is greatly influenced by the minimum diameter of the shaft and the length that the relatively small diameter extends from the loading points. Accordingly, the known forged stub shaft having a small diameter body may compromise the overall bending stiffness of the propeller shaft and, the longer the reduced body diameter extends, the lower the bending stiffness. It has been shown that the lower the bending stiffness, the more likely undesirable noise, vibration and harshness will be produced. Furthermore, existing propeller shaft assemblies may include a greater mass than necessary for transmitting rotary loads. Accordingly, it is desirable to reduce noise, vibration and harshness and reduce the weight of the propeller shaft assembly. Therefore, a need exists for an improved propeller shaft assembly having an increased bending stiffness and reduced mass. Read more: http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20090176587#ixzz0wWBOAuZO Edited August 13, 2010 by gritineye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big chris Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 thing is mine had the same problem heavy wine in sixth and vibration like you wouldnt believe in top gear i too a couple of years ago repaired the output shaft flange with shaft repairer to take up slack this worked well to remove the vibration but not the wine however what i have found is that although before a trip out i grease the props when you have done a few miles the vibration re appears until you get under with the grease gun i am traveling flat out though!! but i thing they are all the same or at least the 3 in me garage all do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abn deuce Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 If it could be done , is it possble that if there were a seal to retain the grease in the sliding action of the drive shaft that the wear and then noise would be reduced or eliminated for lot long period of time , I seem to recall that the heat that the joint is exposed to means it must be regreased very often ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiomike7 Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 OK chaps I think I've got the hang of it now.....we should all be drivingly interconnected by a plurality of ballsh*t. by next week..:nut: Plurality=more than one, I suggest 6 in each joint. When you have cracked the Explorer shaft we will let you loose on the Constructor trailing axle one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiomike7 Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 If it could be done , is it possble that if there were a seal to retain the grease in the sliding action of the drive shaft that the wear and then noise would be reduced or eliminated for lot long period of time , I seem to recall that the heat that the joint is exposed to means it must be regreased very often ? It is not the sliding section of the shaft that has gives trouble in this case but the splines on the gearbox output shaft and the mating companion flange. The universal joints were originally lubricated with oil, each spider having an integral oil reservoir and centripetal force feeding the needle rollers. Grease is usually used these days but can dry out rapidly due to the heat from the exhaust muffler directly below. Although in phase, the joints run at extreme angles and speeds, up to 3600rpm or so at max speed. My Explorer had 'grease propshaft every 50 miles' stencilled on the inside of the driver's door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted August 14, 2010 Share Posted August 14, 2010 (edited) It is not the sliding section of the shaft that has gives trouble in this case but the splines on the gearbox output shaft and the mating companion flange. The universal joints were originally lubricated with oil, each spider having an integral oil reservoir and centripetal force feeding the needle rollers. Grease is usually used these days but can dry out rapidly due to the heat from the exhaust muffler directly below. Although in phase, the joints run at extreme angles and speeds, up to 3600rpm or so at max speed. My Explorer had 'grease propshaft every 50 miles' stencilled on the inside of the driver's door. It is not not centripetal force, but lack of centipetal force causes oil to move to journals. Every body remains at rest, or uniform motion in a straight line unless acted upon by an external force...Newton and all that. Centripetal force is the force in the cat's tail when you swing it in a confined space, that causes the rest of the cat to move in a circular path. (instead of flying off at a tangent...and splatting into a wall) If there was centripetal force acting on the oil it would revolve in a circular path and never reach the journals.... end of science lesson... Centripetal , moving towards the centre from the Latin Centrum = centre and Petus (petere) = seeking cf. Centrifugal moving away froim the centre from Latin Centrum and Fugus (fugere) Fleeing. Edited August 14, 2010 by antarmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiomike7 Posted August 14, 2010 Share Posted August 14, 2010 It is not not centripetal force, but lack of centipetal force causes oil to move to journals. Every body remains at rest, or uniform motion in a straight line unless acted upon by an external force...Newton and all that. Centripetal force is the force in the cat's tail when you swing it in a confined space, that causes the rest of the cat to move in a circular path. (instead of flying off at a tangent...and splatting into a wall) If there was centripetal force acting on the oil it would revolve in a circular path and never reach the journals.... end of science lesson... Centripetal , moving towards the centre from the Latin Centrum = centre and Petus (petere) = seeking cf. Centrifugal moving away froim the centre from Latin Centrum and Fugus (fugere) Fleeing. Sackcloth and ashes for me this time, I should have typed centrifugal.:blush: I knew it was all about cats and flees though.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted August 14, 2010 Author Share Posted August 14, 2010 thing is mine had the same problem heavy wine in sixth and vibration like you wouldnt believe in top gear i too a couple of years ago repaired the output shaft flange with shaft repairer to take up slack this worked well to remove the vibration but not the wine however what i have found is that although before a trip out i grease the props when you have done a few miles the vibration re appears until you get under with the grease gun i am traveling flat out though!! but i thing they are all the same or at least the 3 in me garage all do it Interesting to know you also had a good result with the shaft repairer, did you use the same make? Could the the whine be caused by a previous rebuild with miss matched gears I wonder. Even if the UJs seem good, if the grease tightens them up for a while there must be some wear present however small, presumably you don't grease the sliding splines each time, if not that would prove Mike right and eliminate them as a problem. This just shows how the propshaft is at it's limit on an Explorer at sustained high speed.....I reckon they would last for ages at 20 mph though.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dunton Posted August 19, 2010 Share Posted August 19, 2010 Does any one know where to find a temperature sender for the Explorer? It is missing. The Explorer has the Smith water-proof dash fitted as opposed to the standard. I think is may be similar to the Stalwart. Thanks for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thor698 Posted September 27, 2010 Share Posted September 27, 2010 Yes the other leak IS IN THE SAME EFFING PLACE! What a pi55 poor Scammell design. And as for their manufacturing, it is shyte. The last fulcrum pin was full of machining swarf, down the drilled and tapped extraction hole, and in the end of the shaft that carries the split pin. I reckon the problem is the brake shoe Fulcrum pins have been put in trapping swarf in the tapers, and over time the swarf has compressed and the pins come loose. I am sorry to be rude about the much loved and admired Explorer, but faced with another walking beam end casting to take off and another effing castle nut to take out I am left completly underwelmed by their abilty to design or manufacture anything. LONG LIVE THORNYCROFT. hi did you put anythink on the pin when you put it back in or just did it up tight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted September 27, 2010 Share Posted September 27, 2010 (edited) hi did you put anythink on the pin when you put it back in or just did it up tight Pin went back in with Loctite "Quick Metal" PS pleased to say Scammell Explorer sold at the Week end so I don't have to live with Scammell's disgustingly bad engineering any longer! Edited September 27, 2010 by antarmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted September 27, 2010 Share Posted September 27, 2010 (edited) Does any one know where to find a temperature sender for the Explorer? It is missing. The Explorer has the Smith water-proof dash fitted as opposed to the standard. I think is may be similar to the Stalwart. Thanks for your help. Much mystified by this post, The temperature sender is on the engine, so what is the relevance of which dash it has? What Engine do you have? If we knew that we might be able to tell you where to find a sender! Edited September 27, 2010 by antarmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruggyjohn Posted September 27, 2010 Share Posted September 27, 2010 hi mike, i know its of thread but have you bought a diamond t yet ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted September 27, 2010 Share Posted September 27, 2010 hi mike, i know its of thread but have you bought a diamond t yet ? No I have had my fill of big vehicles, I am downsizing to just the Douglas, and Eager Beaver. Having said that I have just bought a 101 with Nokken winch, just for a bit of fun. Going back to my Off Roading roots and having a little play before all the RUPP's and BOATS have gone forever..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dunton Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 My Explorer has a Leyland 680 engine fitted but I need a temperature sender for the Meadows as the Explorer has the original waterproof dash fitted. The reason why I mentioned the dash is because unlike most civilian temperature gauges, when disconnected it goes to full scale not 0. I am not sure if this would be the same as the non waterproof dash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 My Explorer has a Leyland 680 engine fitted but I need a temperature sender for the Meadows as the Explorer has the original waterproof dash fitted. The reason why I mentioned the dash is because unlike most civilian temperature gauges, when disconnected it goes to full scale not 0. I am not sure if this would be the same as the non waterproof dash. I have a petrol Meadows sat in the shed, now surplus, I will see if it has the sender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dunton Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 I have a petrol Meadows sat in the shed, now surplus, I will see if it has the sender. Thanks Antarmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big chris Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 best place for it antarmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thor698 Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 Pin went back in with Loctite "Quick Metal" PS pleased to say Scammell Explorer sold at the Week end so I don't have to live with Scammell's disgustingly bad engineering any longer! thanks antarmike will have to do mine over the winter. maybe bad engineering but good fun to drive:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted October 2, 2010 Share Posted October 2, 2010 My Explorer has a Leyland 680 engine fitted but I need a temperature sender for the Meadows as the Explorer has the original waterproof dash fitted. The reason why I mentioned the dash is because unlike most civilian temperature gauges, when disconnected it goes to full scale not 0. I am not sure if this would be the same as the non waterproof dash. The Engine I have has a Bulb and capillary tube arrangement, not an electrical sender. The capillary tube was chopped when the engine was taken out. Sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antar Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 Much mystified by this post, The temperature sender is on the engine, so what is the relevance of which dash it has? What Engine do you have? If we knew that we might be able to tell you where to find a sender! I for one fully understood what Stuart was saying. The standardised military waterproof dashboard was fitted to some Explorer contracts as fitted to Champ, Humber 1 Ton, Martian ect. These had a matching sender bulb, which is what he is after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 (edited) I for one fully understood what Stuart was saying. The standardised military waterproof dashboard was fitted to some Explorer contracts as fitted to Champ, Humber 1 Ton, Martian ect. These had a matching sender bulb, which is what he is after. Surely with a capillary sender unit the bulb, capillary and gauge are one unit, they are filled and sealed. If you only have the gauge in a dash, you cannot connect a capillary tube and bulb to it. Or am I missing something. This is what I have on the Scammell in my shed, and on my spare engine. With an electrical temperature gauge you need a thermister, Temperature dependant resistor or similar to connect to it via an electrical cable, and then you can change the sender but keep the gauge. If you have a fluid or vapour filled bulb, in is connected to the gauge at manufacture and cannot be replaced independently of the gauge. Talk of a "bulb" indicates use of such a system. I am saying I only have the capillary system, and I therefore cannot help Edited October 3, 2010 by antarmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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